CryoNet #32420 - #32428
CryoNet <[email protected]> 26 Feb 2010 10:00:03 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.culture.science.cryogenics |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
CryoNet - Fri 26 Feb 2010
#32420: Re: Do we want to be a Movement? [Alexei Potapov]
#32421: Re: CryoNet #32418 - Kitty Antonik Wakfer's Post [Melody Maxim]
#32422: Re: How to protect yourself [Dennis]
#32423: Re: How to protect yourself [David Stodolsky]
#32424: Re: Anonymity on Cryonics Plans - Disaster Hazard [David Stodolsky]
#32425: Re: Do we want to be a Movement? [David Stodolsky]
#32426: "Evidence that Cryonics May Work" on YouTube [benbest]
#32427: genistein suppresses cryopreservation-induced damage [oberon]
#32428: no association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease [oberon]
Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32420%2D32428
Administrivia
To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to:
[email protected]
with the subject line (not message _body_):
subscribe
To unsubscribe, use the subject line:
unsubscribe
To post a message to CryoNet, send your message to:
[email protected]
from the same address to which you are aubscribed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32420
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:37:39 +0300
Subject: Re: Do we want to be a Movement?
From: Alexei Potapov <[email protected]>
>> The word "movement" suggests a cult to me. I think of cryonics as a
>> field of study with practical applications in the same way that I
>> think of physics. Wouldn't we project a better image if we called
>> ourselves the cryonics community, defined as a group of people
>> interested in the study and practice of cryonics?
There's difference btw movement and community. Community doesnt need
to move anywhere. And the movement needs goals, plans, strategy,
coordinated actions. As a participant of CryoFreedom community i have
to agree - cryonics now are companies and communities, there's no
movement now and it's hard to realy start one. I'm personaly failed.
--
Cryofreedom.org - free cryonics for community members.
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32420
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32421
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32418 - Kitty Antonik Wakfer's Post
<<< POSTER'S REPUTATION TOO LOW >>>
To retrieve the entire message, send email to:
[email protected]
with the Subject line "32421".
Alternatively, access the message via WWW at URL:
http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/dsp.cgi?msg=32421
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32421
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32422
From: Dennis <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: How to protect yourself
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:26:56 -0500
--_a2a7328d-fa25-4ba8-8a8f-ef26a08f9ed2_
>From: david pizer <[email protected]> wote:
>Help create a cryonics community where older cryonicists can live until their suspension time.
I fully support this concept. It's not easy, but it's probably the most effective in the long run. Start off by having cryonicists as roomates/neighbours.
Dennis
_________________________________________________________________
--_a2a7328d-fa25-4ba8-8a8f-ef26a08f9ed2_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ]
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32422
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32423
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: How to protect yourself
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:34:34 +0100
References: <[email protected]>
On 24 Feb 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:
> How can you protect yourself?
>
> Make sure that your life insurance policy says that if you don't get
> suspended for any reason that the proceeds still go to your cryonics
> organization and not your relatives. So there is no financial
> incentive for the relatives to cause you to cancel your arrangements.
>
> Put a clause in your will that says that if you don't get suspended
> that all your estate goes to your cryonics company and not your
> relatives so that there is a financial incentive for your relatives
> to see that you do get suspended.
>
>
> Maybe have two beneficiaries on your life insurance policy. One is
> your suspension company and the other is your relatives. If you get
> suspended Alcor or CI gets their money and your relatives get some
> too. If you don't get suspended then Alcor or CI get all the money
> and your relatives get nothing.
>
> Make a video of your wishes and send it to your cryonics
> organization to keep in case there is trouble when you get old and
> infirm.
These and the suggestions offered by others today are fine. However,
they don't alter the fact that a good outcome is dependent upon a
single person not changing their mind. The fact that that person may
become infirm and in the final analysis have their affairs taken over
by others creates increased risk. We are seeing repeated instances of
problems with this type of arrangement. The suggestions may make it
harder for relatives to interfere, but that doesn't resolve the basic
issue.
There is a difference between *doing the right thing* and *doing the
thing right*. All these suggestions are about how to do the thing
right. However, the problems are a result of not doing the right
thing. One of the lessons of modernity is that decisions about life
and death should not be left in the hands of individuals. An example
of this is death penalty cases, where a (separate) jury trial is
required in the USA. Another is voluntary euthanasia in The
Netherlands, where a second opinion is a requirement. Decisions by a
judge may appear to be that of a single individual, but the judge is
depending upon many earlier decisions and a ruling can be appealed.
Therefore, it is not actually the will of a single person that is final.
There are many examples in the history of cryonics of problems
resulting from placing life and death decisions in the hands of
individuals. The Chatsworth disaster was probably the worst. However,
we have seen many cases where suspension contracts were cancelled or
blocked. The Tim Leary case was probably the most high profile of these.
Insurance policies and wills are not socially accepted methods of
making life and death decisions. Depending upon them in suspension
cases is the source of the problem. When a suspension is contested in
court, that is just a recognition that life and death decisions
ultimately must not be determined by the will of a single individual.
Since cryonicists, more than others, regard these as life and death
decisions, we should be the first to acknowledge that problem. We have
the choice of ensuring that the decisions don't rest in the hands of
an individual by forming appropriate collective bodies. If we don't,
then we can expect that such decisions will be taken out of our hands
and be subject to rulings by a society appointed collective. There is
precedent for this analysis in the law with respect to rulings by
ecclesiastical courts. When they rule on family matters, such as
divorce settlements, the secular courts try to avoid becoming involved.
A real improvement in security requires a different type of social
arrangement, where there are multiple individuals, selected for
competence, that make the decision. This is one benefit of my proposal
for shifting to a corporate funding mechanism. There are many others,
including making it a lot easier to make the decision to be suspended
and ensuring that funding is available.
>
> Help create a cryonics community where older cryonicists can live
> until their suspension time.
This is certainly a good idea, however, a limited number of persons
can or will take advantage of it. We need to create communities where
people are already living. Disruption of a person's social and
physical environment is a major health risk in late life, therefore, a
major move is not advisable.
dss
David Stodolsky
[email protected] Skype: davidstodolsky
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32423
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32424
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Anonymity on Cryonics Plans - Disaster Hazard
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:12:27 +0100
References: <[email protected]>
On 25 Feb 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:
> Being anonymous about
> cryonics is *not* protection for a signed-up cryonicist but rather an
> opportunity for relatives who do not agree to wreak havoc with those
> plans.
As long as cryonics is regarded as a cult or as quackery by the
mainstream, being associated with it can result in being banned from
certain organizations. Therefore, such public association could have
negative consequences for one's career. It could also retard progress
in cryonics by restricting where scientific work can be published by
those with a public association.
The ideal solution is for a signed-up cryonicist have any public
association to cryonics protected by a secure pseudonym. The key to
this public name would be held by a cryonics organization. If any
question arose as to the wishes of the member, the organization could
release the key. This would allow anyone to prove the member's
association with cryonics, their authorship of documents released
under the pseudonym, etc.
This is an element of the publication model presented here:
Extended abstract (5 minutes):
Stodolsky, D. S. (2002). Computer-network based democracy: Scientific
communication as a basis for governance. Proceedings of the 3rd
International Workshop on Knowledge Management in e-Government, 7,
127-137.
http://dss.secureid.org/stories/storyReader$14
Comprehensive
Stodolsky, D. S. (1995). Consensus Journals: Invitational journals
based upon peer review. The Information Society, 11(4).
http://dss.secureid.org/stories/storyReader$19
dss
David Stodolsky
[email protected] Skype: davidstodolsky
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32424
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32425
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Do we want to be a Movement?
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:19:56 +0100
References: <[email protected]>
On 25 Feb 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:
> The word "movement" suggests a cult to me.
I doubt if this perception is widespread. A cult tends to be closed,
while a movement tends to be open. You have to be initiated into a
cult. People join movements to help achieve their objectives. Cults
are organizations. Movements are multi-organizational and can include
independent persons, or can consist of only independent persons. Cults
have a well defined membership. Movements either have no membership at
all or have dynamic changes in membership.
> I think of cryonics as a
> field of study with practical applications in the same way that I
> think of physics. Wouldn't we project a better image if we called
> ourselves the cryonics community, defined as a group of people
> interested in the study and practice of cryonics?
Unfortunately, the practice of cryonics these days means a lot of
social change effort, since the area is regarded by the mainstream as
a cult or a scam. Attitudes like these are a threat to a good
suspension, as we have seen with recent cases. These same attitudes
could lead to cryonic suspension being outlawed, as is almost the case
in Canada.
I started using the term 'movement', because cryonics is closer to
that than any other construct used in social science. In the long run,
we are better off selecting an accurate term, than one that sells.
This avoids charges of misrepresentation, which have become all to
common lately. An accurate term also helps participants understand
their own role and how to act more effectively to promote goals. It
also helps us understand what challenges we face, in terms of
acceptance by the mainstream, and what risks we face.
Finally, social movement theory is now hot in marketing, which is a
major problem for the Movement. Understanding ourselves in movement
terms thus points the way towards greater success.
dss
David Stodolsky
[email protected] Skype: davidstodolsky
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32425
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32426
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:24:50 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: "Evidence that Cryonics May Work" on YouTube
Dr. Aubrey de Grey has given permission
for the video of my SENS3 lecture
"Evidence that Cryonics May Work"
that I gave at the SENS3 conference at
Cambridge University in September 2007
to be uploaded to YouTube.
Cryonics Institute Member Dennis Kowalski
has converted the web version of the lecture
http://richardjschueler.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=56961
to two YouTube versions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85IQZOLPF6U (Part I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf8tsrw_piM (Part II)
Thanks to Dennis and Moyea Software for converting
this video for presentation on YouTube. Unthanks to
Moyea Software for putting their logo in the very
center of the picture, making it difficult to read
the powerpoint slides.
-- Ben Best
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32426
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32427
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:23:02 -0800 (PST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: genistein suppresses cryopreservation-induced damage
[Genistein is an effective cryopreservation solution additive. However, based on cost, it is hard to beat filtered green tea.]
Hum Reprod. 2009 Sep;24(9):2061-70. Epub 2009 Jun 12.
Cryopreservation-induced human sperm DNA damage is predominantly mediated by oxidative stress rather than apoptosis.
Thomson LK, Fleming SD, Aitken RJ, De Iuliis GN, Zieschang JA, Clark AM.
Fertility First, PO Box 807, Hurstville, NSW 2220, Australia.
BACKGROUND: Whereas studies have revealed that the cryopreservation of human semen increases sperm DNA fragmentation, the mechanisms involved in this type of cryo-injury are largely unknown. Elucidation of these mechanisms may provide insight into preventing such injury. METHODS: We obtained 60 semen samples from 60 men and conducted experiments to determine the cause of cryopreservation-induced DNA fragmentation using 8-oxo-7,8-dihydro-2'deoxyguanosine (8OHdG) as a biomarker of oxidative stress, percentage caspase positive cells as an indicator of apoptosis, the potential antioxidant genistein and the caspase inhibitor Z-VAD(OMe)-FMK. RESULTS: Cryopreservation led to a significant increase in percentage DNA fragmentation, percentage 8OHdG and percentage caspase positive cells (P < 0.001).
Percentage DNA fragmentation was positively correlated with percentage 8OHdG before (r = 0.756, P < 0.001) and after cryopreservation (r = 0.528, P = 0.017). The addition of 50 and 100 microM genistein to the cryoprotectant had a significant protective effect on sperm DNA (P < 0.001) although the caspase inhibitor demonstrated no difference to the control. CONCLUSIONS: Human sperm DNA fragmentation is associated with an increase in oxidative stress during cryopreservation, rather than the activation of caspases and apoptosis. The estrogenic compound genistein may be useful in reducing this effect but larger trials are needed to confirm this.
PMID: 19525298
J Med Food. 2009 Apr;12(2):429-34.
Cell viability of normal human skin fibroblast and fibroblasts derived from granulation tissue: effects of nutraceuticals.
Borawska MH, Czechowska SK, Markiewicz R, Hayirli A, Olszewska E, Sahin K.
Department of Bromatology, Medical University of Bialystok, Bialystok, Poland.
The effects of lycopene, genistein, and epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) on cell viability were tested in vitro using a normal human skin fibroblast (NHSF) cell line (CRL-1474) and granulation tissue fibroblasts (GTFs) obtained from a patient with middle ear cholesteatoma. Cell cultures were added with lycopene (1, 5, and 10 microM), genistein (1, 5, 10, 25, and 50 microM), and EGCG (1, 5, 10, 25, and 50 microM) and their respective control cultures were established by adding 5 mL/L tetrahydrofuran (THF), 5 mL/L dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO), and 5 mL/L DMSO. A colorimetric assay was employed for determining cell viability using thiazolyl blue tetrazolium bromide. Cell viability was expressed as a percentage of the control. Data were analyzed using two-way analysis of variance separately for
each compound. Lycopene addition decreased viability of NHSFs and GTFs compared with THF addition (64.1%, 60.5%, and 100%, respectively, P < .0001). Genistein addition also increased viability of both NHSFs and GTFs compared with DMSO addition (P < .02). Increasing EGCG concentration tended to cause a linear increase in viability of NHSFs but did not alter viability of GTFs (P < .10). Our data suggest that genistein and EGCG but not lycopene could help maintaining or improving skin health through enhancing viability of skin fibroblasts.
PMID: 19459748
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32427
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #32428
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:50:33 -0800 (PST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: no association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease
[For years the scientific consensus was that saturated fats increased
CVD risk. This consensus was derived from clinical trials in rodents. The
lessons of this story are that humans are not rodents, and that human
scientists are prone to reaching a false consensus. If you have a
skeptical mind, treasure it. It may the only thing that ultimately helps
you beat the actuary's tables.]
Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Mar;91(3):535-46. Epub 2010 Jan 13.
Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease.
Siri-Tarino PW, Sun Q, Hu FB, Krauss RM.
Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute Oakland CA Harvard School of Public Health Boston MA.
BACKGROUND: A reduction in dietary saturated fat has generally been thought to improve cardiovascular health. OBJECTIVE: The objective of this meta-analysis was to summarize the evidence related to the association of dietary saturated fat with risk of coronary heart disease (CHD), stroke, and cardiovascular disease (CVD; CHD inclusive of stroke) in prospective epidemiologic studies. DESIGN: Twenty-one studies identified by searching MEDLINE and EMBASE databases and secondary referencing qualified for inclusion in this study. A random-effects model was used to derive composite relative risk estimates for CHD, stroke, and CVD. RESULTS: During 5-23 y of follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed CHD or stroke. Intake of saturated fat was not associated with an increased risk of CHD, stro
ke, or CVD. The pooled relative risk estimates that compared extreme quantiles of saturated fat intake were 1.07 (95% CI: 0.96, 1.19; P = 0.22) for CHD, 0.81 (95% CI: 0.62, 1.05; P = 0.11) for stroke, and 1.00 (95% CI: 0.89, 1.11; P = 0.95) for CVD. Consideration of age, sex, and study quality did not change the results. CONCLUSIONS: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat.
PMID: 20071648 [PubMed - in process]
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32428
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of CryoNet Digest
*********************