CryoNet #32479 - #32481

CryoNet - Sun 14 Mar 2010

    #32479: Cryonics debate on Cult Education Forum [MARK PLUS]
    #32480: Fw: [universalimmortalism] Alcor-lovers vs. Neuro-lovers [david pizer]
    #32481: Collateral Damage or Misguided Malarkey? [Kevin Q. Brown]

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Message #32479
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:56:28 -0700
Subject: Cryonics debate on Cult Education Forum
From: MARK PLUS <[email protected]>

Now Dr. Steve Harris and Melody Maxim have joined in:

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,64749,82895#msg-82895

-- 
Mark Plus
Life is short: Freeze hard!

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Message #32480
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:17:07 -0800 (PST)
From: david pizer <[email protected]>
Subject: Fw: [universalimmortalism] Alcor-lovers vs. Neuro-lovers

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From: david pizer <[email protected]>
Subject: [universalimmortalism] Alcor-lovers vs. Neuro-lovers
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 12:16 PM


  



Here is part of a discussion/debate between Mike Perry and David Pizer about public relations conserning the Neuro Option. Both Mike and David hope that these discussions can help us all to understand what Alcor can do, to create a better public image.

Perry: I agree with 2Arcturus here. In my experience people don't have too much trouble accepting the idea that repairing a brain will be harder than recreating a body, especially if you bring up the cloning of mammals. Dolly the sheep was made from one cell, including all organs etc. People know that and can easily relate to it.

Pizer - You explain why *you* don't understand what is going on with the vast the thinking of the non-cryonics public by saying  "In my experience.. ..."   I agree with you that - In *your* experience you probably don't know what most regular, non-cryonics people are really thinking about Alcor.  You probably don't realize how much they detest the Neuro option, and therefore they are beginning to detest Alcor's existence.

Most of your day = You exist exclusely in the cryonics world, you live all day in a cryonics building, see only cryonics members, and read cryonics stuff.  

Mostl of my day = I exist in the non cryonics world, of doing business with many members of the general non-cryonics public, politics and government. 

You know what the 1,000 cryonics people will accept - Neuros are OK with them.

I know what the billions of non-cryonics people will not accept - Neuros are not OK with them.

Perry: If they can't understand it better they won't understand cryonics period. In fact I would propose that unless someone *does* understand how neuro is a reasonable option they don't understand cryonics, and stand in need of a *lot* more understanding. 

Pizer: There are billions of them and less then 1,000 Alcor members and you are demanding that *they* better change *their* thinking and better understand us = or else!  

Or else what? 

You will shut *them* down? 

Wake up! They will shut Alcor down, we can't shut them down. They will cause Alcor to have to leave Arizona as they caused Alcor to have to leave California after Alcor did a Neuro on Dora Kent. They control the government with officers and guns and jails. You control the start button on a chain saw.

Perry: The bureaucrats never complained about removing the head, they complained because they said the procedure had been started premortem. They never complained about any other neuro case we did, inasmuch as the "premortem" issue didn't come up.

Pizer:  I guess you don't pay attention at the Alcor Board meeings where they announce that Alcor's projected spending budget is close to $1,000,000 a year and the normal projected income is about $600,000.  Projected $400,000 deficit? Don't you realize that Alcor has to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of addional money each and every year on lawyers, lobbyists, and other consultants and experts, pay more for regular goods and services, just to stay in business.  All that waste of money is caused because the public doesn't like Neuros and they make Alcor have to spend extra money just to stay in business.
 
Pizer concluding:  I can see that Mike Perry, and a few other Neuro people, do not spend much time in the non-cryonics world where I do.  I do business with thousands of non cryonicists every year, go to policical meetings, deal with government agencies and religious leaders, and many other non cryonics entities.  Unlike those people like Mike who live in a cryonics company building and often don't see daylight for days on end, I am in a position to better know what the general non-cryonics public feels about the Neuro option.  The Neuro option may be good for a few Neuro *members* who cause Alcor to receive $70,000 less on a suspension then a regular member pays, and then cause Alcor hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra costs each year in expenses just to stay in business, but the Ne
 uro option is not good for Alcor as a company. It causes Alcor to take in about 1/2 of the needed money at the suspension payment time and to spend much more
money each year just to stay in business.
 
Alcor needs to either find a major way to educate the public (and I don't think that can be done with our present budget and their present attitude) of we need to grandfather in the existing Neuro members and then quit offering the Neuro option to new members, or else face the risks of infuriating the public and the government they control, perhaps to a point where they run Alcor out of yet another state, as they did in California a few years ago, after Alcor did a Neuro on an elderly lady there.
 


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Message #32481
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:15:19 -0500
From: "Kevin Q. Brown" <[email protected]>
Subject: Collateral Damage or Misguided Malarkey?

A recent spate of messages (32432, 32433, 32438, 32442,
32443, 32444, 32477, 32478) concerning a pain point
of the CryoNet rating system triggered the wake-up
protocol of my time-shifting experiments. As I arose
from my torpor and shook off the chill, the nag bot
rudely reported the ratings ruckus.

According to Google Summarize (beta), the angry, shrill,
hell hath no fury like ... messages that we all know
and love had suffered unfairly at the hands of anonymous
pea-brained droids. Expert opinion differed on the etiology:

(1) collateral damage
(2) antagonistic pleiotropy
(3) WTF? The CryoNet rating system sucks!

In rebuttal, Bing Briefs broached the bothersome bugaboo:

(4) Are muzzled messages mostly misguided malarkey?

Enough of that bot talk! The psych profiler just completed
its analysis of the hostilities to date, and, through its
direct neural interface, nearly SHOUTED at me:

What part of "do not engage" do you not understand?

I know. Never, ever insert yourself between combatants
in a bar room brawl or an Internet "discussion".
But too late.  I already stuck my foot in it.

To refresh your memory, the CryoNet rating system
was born from a pressing need ages ago, as recalled
in the 2006 message:

http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/dsp.cgi?msg=28795
Lunatics, sociopaths, and malicious malcontents

It evolved to combat disruption of the mailing list by
persistent and incorrigible miscreants. Some claim that
it now behaves like an overzealous immune system or
has been co-opted by the forces of darkness. My root-kit
prevents me from discerning such distinctions, but I still
can offer a general-purpose, high-level guiding principal:

The Best Answer To Bad Speech Is More Speech

How to do that? Frankly, I am loath to tinker too deeply
into the creaky edifice of customized CryoNet code.
(It's just so 90's and way overdue for a reboot.) But to
help foster a kinder, gentler CryoNet rating system,
I just patched in a quick-and-dirty 50% Discount Special.
The Reputation Calculation Algorithm described at:

http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/reputation.cgi?help=y

now will employ a "spaminess" weight of just half the
previous amount. "Bad" now will be just "half-bad" and
"good" will be "great". (You all know that such grade
inflation has worked wonders for our educational system!)

I'll now head back to that time-pod, while the
not-so-bad-anymore speech battles the good and great speech.

Kevin Q. Brown
[email protected]
(Include "cryonics" or "CryoNet" in the subject line.)

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