CryoNet #32574 - #32575
CryoNet <[email protected]> 2 May 2010 09:00:03 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.culture.science.cryogenics |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
CryoNet - Sun 2 May 2010
#32574: Re: migration for cryonics [John de Rivaz]
#32575: Re: CryoNet #32573 [Gary Kline]
Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32574%2D32575
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Message #32574
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: migration for cryonics
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 18:00:55 +0100
Yvan Bozzonetti asks what are the problems with regards to building a cryonics facility in the UK, particularly with regards to law, technology or money.
I don't think that there is any specific law against cryonics as there may be in some countries.
To an extent these three are all interleaved. Undoubtedly there would be vast sums of money to be taken for compliance costs which may make it more the difficult to find what is needed for buying a building, equiping it, and endowing a fund to pay staff. The costs of a caretaker could be avoided by siting it near someone willing to do it for free, but then once he is under cryopreservation there may not be anyone else in the same area.
I think it will only happen if there are professionals who are comitted cryonicists and who can do the compliance work for the good of the group and are willing to advance the project with the determination and enthusiasm it would need. This would need to be way beyond the determination and enthusiasm that they would put into normal fee account work.
There was a building produced in Sussex in the 1980s for Alcor to do preparations, but unfortunately for various reasons it was sold and the project is unlikely to be repeated. The amount of money required to repeat even this would be ten times or more now.
Ideally, a facility should be able to prepare and store people in cryopreservation, but also have another activity that earns money. In the USA, this is legally difficult - some say impossible - without any legal the risks from the other activity putting the patients at risk. This is due to the dilution of the limited liability laws with regards to linked businesses. It may well be that similar provisions in UK law would make this difficult. If this is so, then it would be expensive and wasteful to have the facility being unused or underused for long periods.
As far as technology is concerned, this is not an issue at all. We are all on the same planet and can therefore get the equipment. As far as I know liquid nitrogen is available in most parts of the UK. You can certainly get it in Cornwall, which is considered to be remote by some people. Therefore southern counties nearer population centres in France should be well supplied with liquid nitrogen. Most of not all southern counties in the UK have ferry links to France (and one to Spain).
There is already a cryonics facility in Russia which is accessible from Europe without the unreliability of air transport.
http://www.kriorus.com
(click on the union flag at the bottom of the page to get an English translation.)
If a facility did appear in the UK, Kriorus would be older and longer established!
--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and
more
----- Original Message -----
From: CryoNet
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:00 AM
Subject: CryoNet #32573
Message #32573
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:39:10 +0200
Subject: Re: migration for cryonics
From: yvan Bozzonetti <[email protected]>
--0003255554faae3c4b048573877d
> From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
> Subject: migration for cryonics
> <...>
>
What would be the biggest problem for building a cryonics facility in UK?
Law, technology? money?,...
Yvan Bozzonetti
Yvan Bozzonetti asks what are the problems with regards to building a cryonics facility in the UK, particularly with regards to law, technology or money.
I don't think that there is any specific law against cryonics as there may be in some countries.
To an extent these three are all interleaved. Undoubtedly there would be vast sums of money to be taken for compliance costs which may make it more the difficult to find what is needed for buying a building, equiping it, and endowing a fund to pay staff. The costs of a caretaker could be avoided by siting it near someone willing to do it for free, but then once he is under cryopreservation there may not be anyone else in the same area.
I think it will only happen if there are professionals who can do the compliance work for the good of the group and are willing to advance the project with the determination and enthusiasm it would need. There was a building produced in Sussex in the 1980s for Alcor to do preparations, but unfortunately for various reasons it was sold and the project is unlikely to be repeated. The amount of money required to repeat even this would be ten times or more now.
Ideally, a facility should be able to prepare and store people in cryopreservation, but also have another activity that earns money. In the USA, this is legally difficult - some say impossible - without any legal the risks from the other activity putting the patients at risk. This is due to the dilution of the limited liability laws with regards to linked businesses. It may well be that similar provisions in UK law would make this difficult. If this is so, then it would be expensive and wasteful to have the facility being unused or underused for long periods.
As far as technology is concerned, this is not an issue at all. We are all on the same planet and can therefore get the equipment. As far as I know liquid nitrogen is available in most parts of the UK. You can certainly get it in Cornwall, which is considered to be remote by some people. Therefore southern counties nearer population centres in France should be well supplied with liquid nitrogen. Most of not all southern counties in the UK have ferry links to France (and one to Spain).
There is already a cryonics facility in Russia which is accessible from Europe without the unreliability of air transport.
http://www.kriorus.com
--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and
more
----- Original Message -----
From: CryoNet
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:00 AM
Subject: CryoNet #32573
Message #32573
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:39:10 +0200
Subject: Re: migration for cryonics
From: yvan Bozzonetti <[email protected]>
--0003255554faae3c4b048573877d
> From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
> Subject: migration for cryonics
> <...>
>
What would be the biggest problem for building a cryonics facility in UK?
Law, technology? money?,...
Yvan Bozzonetti
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Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32574
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Message #32575
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 23:38:02 -0700
From: Gary Kline <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32573
References: <[email protected]>
On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 09:00:03AM -0000, CryoNet wrote:
> CryoNet - Sat 1 May 2010
>
> #32573: Re: migration for cryonics [yvan Bozzonetti]
>
> What would be the biggest problem for building a cryonics facility in UK?
> Law, technology? money?,...
>
> Yvan Bozzonetti
>
HEre is a related question that has been on my mind for many
years: when there is a critical-mass of people in one
georgraphical area, could these folks get together and build
a temporyary cryonics storage place? Anywhere in the globe
that had ten or more interested and PRE-PAID membered within,
say 200 clicks.
In just the past year or so I've had about 1.5 interested
people ask me about suspension, which is amazing given that I
am pretty much a shut-in.
Any ball-park dollar range to hold a few people who have
deanimated?
>
--
Gary Kline [email protected] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix
The 7.83a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php
http://journey.thought.org 99 44/100% Guaranteed Novel
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32575
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