CryoNet #32839 - #32840

CryoNet - Fri 17 Sep 2010

    #32839: thanks to Jens Rabis [Ettinger]
    #32840: slow freezing protocols [oberon]

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Message #32839
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 05:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: thanks to Jens Rabis

--for his kind words. I don't always publicize or even acknowledge kind  
words, and don't want to clutter the net, but I do appreciate the  sentiment.
 
Bob
 
In a message dated 9/16/2010 5:00:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[email protected] writes:

CryoNet  - Thu 16 Sep 2010

#32837: Re: without really trying  (Heinlein) [Keith Henson]
#32838: AW: CryoNet #32836 [Jens  Rabis]

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Message  #32837
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:29:01 -0700
Subject: Re: without really  trying (Heinlein)
From: Keith Henson  <[email protected]>

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:00 AM,  [email protected] wrote:

snip

> On the other hand, Robert  Heinlein said TANSTAAFL--there aint no such 
thing
>  as a free  lunch. On the third hand, Heinlein believed in reincarnation,
> which  is  surely in the running for one of the dumbest ideas of all  
time.

As one of the people who tried and failed to get Heinlein signed  up,
there is a lot to what you say.  But it is possible that  Heinlein
might have the last laugh.

Hans Moravec felt the same way  but resolved it (sort of) by saying
that he had left enough tracks in  environment to be reconstructed.  We
had a bit of argument on the old  time Extropian list where I allowed
it to be possible but it would require  an astonishing amount of
computation to generate a version of Hans that  thought like he did at
the point (say) he finished Mind Children.  It  would take a vast
number of discarded iterations and I expressed hope that  the discard
process of the millions of versions who were not quite close  enough
would be painless.

Charles Stross who was (I think) reading  that list in those days
worked this into a chapter of  Accelerado.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How you got here:

The center of the  solar system ? Mercury, Venus, Earth's Moon, Mars,
the asteroid belt, and  Jupiter ? have been dismantled, or are being
dismantled, by weakly godlike  intelligences. [NB: Monotheistic clergy
and Europeans who remember living  prior to 1600, see alternative
memeplex "in the beginning."] A weakly  godlike intelligence is not a
supernatural agency, but the product of a  highly advanced society that
learned how to artificially create souls [late  20th century: software]
and translate human minds into souls and vice  versa. [Core concepts:
Human beings all have souls. Souls are software  objects. Software is
not immortal.]

Some of the weakly  godlike intelligences appear to cultivate an
interest in their human  antecedents ? for whatever reason is not
known. (Possibilities include the  study of history through
horticulture, entertainment through live-action  role-playing, revenge,
and economic forgery.) While no definitive analysis  is possible, all
the resimulated persons to date exhibit certain  common
characteristics: They are all based on well-documented  historical
persons, their memories show suspicious gaps [see: smoke and  mirrors],
and they are ignorant of or predate the singularity [see:  Turing
Oracle, Vinge catastrophe].

It is believed that  the weakly godlike agencies have created you as a
vehicle for the  introspective study of your historical antecedent by
backward-chaining from  your corpus of documented works, and the
back-projected genome derived from  your collateral descendants, to
generate an abstract description of your  computational state vector.
This technique is extremely intensive [see:  expTime-complete
algorithms, Turing Oracle, time travel, industrial magic]  but
marginally plausible in the absence of supernatural  explanations.

After experiencing your life, the weakly  godlike agencies have
expelled you. For reasons unknown, they chose to do  this by
transmitting your upload state and genome/proteome complex  to
receivers owned and operated by a consortium of charities based  on
Saturn. These charities have provided for your basic needs,  including
the body you now occupy.

In summary: You are  a reconstruction of someone who lived and died a
long time ago, not a  reincarnation. You have no intrinsic moral right
to the identity you  believe to be your own, and an extensive body of
case law states that you  do not inherit your antecedent's possessions.
Other than that, you are a  free individual.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Heinlein, having written one heck  of a lot of material, probably could
be reconstructed this way to the level  of detail that would have us
believe that we were talking to the real  person.

However, that does not convince me to give up having a  suspension contract!

snip

> On the fourth hand, experience  teaches us, or tries to teach us, that few
> exceptional rewards are  received by those who don't work for them. Too 
many
> cryonicists see  themselves just as customers rather than partners or
> family. It's a  rare individual who is actually doing all he can and 
should   do.

So true.  There is way too much to  do.

Keith

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Message  #32838
From: "Jens Rabis"  <[email protected]>
References:  <[email protected]>
Subject: AW: CryoNet  #32836
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 09:32:34 +0200

Dear Cryofather  Robert,

Cryofamily "feels" warmer than liquid nitrogen at -196 degrees  Celsius :-)

Your  Cryoson
Jens
Germany-Berlin

**********************************

Lieber  Kryovater Robert,

Kryofamilie "fuhlt" sich warmer an, als flussiger  Stickstoff bei -196 Grad
Celsius :-)

Dein  Cryosohn
Jens
Germany-Berlin



-----Ursprungliche  Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]  [mailto:[email protected]] 
Im
Auftrag von CryoNet
Gesendet:  Mittwoch, 15. September 2010 11:00
An: [email protected]
Betreff:  CryoNet #32836

CryoNet - Wed 15 Sep 2010

#32836:  without really trying [Ettinger]

Rate This Digest:  http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32836%2D32836

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Message #32836
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 14  Sep 2010 22:32:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: without really trying

Want to  live forever without really trying?

Some religions teach/preach that  everyone will live forever, although some 
 
may not like their  destination, even though it's a dry heat. A pretty good 
deal  for  some, in some ways--immortality regardless of what you do or 
don't

do.  And  Blaise Pascal said faith is a shrewd bet.

Then there are the  omega pointers who believe more or less the same thing, 
 
but without  the hot place. Everybody goes to Heaven, regardless, by 
ultimate   uploading near the end of time. (Giving them their due, some of
the omega  
pointers recommend cryonics for life insurance, just in case.) 

On  the other hand, Robert Heinlein said TANSTAAFL--there aint no such 
thing  
as a free lunch. On the third hand, Heinlein believed in reincarnation,  
which is  surely in the running for one of the dumbest ideas of all  time.

And Phineas Taylor Barnum said there's a sucker  born  every  minute.

On the fourth hand, experience teaches us, or tries  to teach us, that few  
exceptional rewards are received by those who  don't work for them. Too many

cryonicists see themselves just as  customers rather than partners or  
family. It's a rare individual who  is actually doing all he can and should
do.

Robert Ettinger  


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Message #32840
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 18:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: slow freezing protocols

[Slow freezing protocols can offer in some cases higher whole organ viability than some vitrification protocols. Slow freezing protocols are subject to ice crystalization damage effects, while vitrification is subject to significant cryoprotectant toxicity effects. IMHO, which approach is the more promising for organ cryopreservation is an open question. Cryoprotectant toxicity is still something of a mystery, but membrane damage does appear to be the primary mode of damage from slow freezing. Additives to coat and thereby armor cell membranes, directional freezing, variable microwave fields, or variable magentic fields could all act in concert to reduce or perhaps even eliminate  ice crystal damage.]

J Assist Reprod Genet. 2010 Sep 15. [Epub ahead of print]
Whole sheep ovary cryopreservation: evaluation of a slow freezing protocol with dimethylsulphoxide.
Milenkovic M, Wallin A, Ghahremani M, Brannstrom M. Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Sahlgrenska Academy, University of Gothenburg, SE-41345, Goteborg, Sweden,
Abstract
    PURPOSE: To evaluate a slow freezing method for whole ovary cryopreservation by evaluating effects of added cryoprotectant.
METHODS: Sheep ovaries were isolated during surgery, flushed with either Ringer-Acetate or dimethylsulphoxide and cryopreserved by slow freezing. After rapid thawing, viability was assessed by ovarian in vitro perfusion, cell culture, histology and fluorescent live-dead assay.
RESULTS: Production of cyclic AMP and progesterone was slightly higher in the dimethylsulphoxide group. Cultured ovarian cells from dimethylsulphoxide-preserved ovaries secreted larger amounts of progesterone than cells from Ringer-Acetate preserved. Light microscopy of ovarian biopsies obtained after perfusion, revealed well-preserved tissue in the dimethysulphoxide group but not in the Ringer-Acetate group. The density of small follicles and ovarian cell viability were higher in dimethysulphoxide ovaries compared to Ringer-Acetate ovaries.
CONCLUSIONS: Equilibrium with its protective effect can be achieved by slow freezing protocol, with an additional protective effect by the presence of dimethylsulphoxide.
PMID: 20842419

[Wheat protein extracts are an example of a cryoprotectant substitute which apparently functions primarily by coating cell membranes to improve the freeze tolerance of cells.]

Biotechnol Bioeng. 2009 Jun 15;103(3):582-91.
Wheat proteins improve cryopreservation of rat hepatocytes.
Grondin M, Hamel F, Averill-Bates DA, Sarhan F. Departement des Sciences Biologiques, Universite du Quebec a Montreal, Succursale Centre-Ville, Canada.
Abstract
    Hepatocytes are an important physiological model for in vitro studies of drug metabolism and toxicity. However, fresh hepatocytes are not always available and hence cyopreservation is needed to preserve large quantities until they are needed for these applications. Hepatocytes are extremely sensitive to damage induced by the freeze-thaw process, even after addition of traditional cryoprotectants such as dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO). Furthermore, they do not proliferate in culture. We previously demonstrated that a crude wheat extract protects rat hepatocytes during cryopreservation and could provide a promising alternative to DMSO. We have considerably improved this novel cryopreservation procedure by using wheat extracts that are partially purified by either ammonium sulphate or acetone 
 precipitation, or by using recombinant wheat freezing tolerance-associated proteins such as WCS120, TaTIL, WCS19, and TaIRI-2. These improved procedures enhance long-term storage (2-12 month
 s) and recovery of large quantities of healthy cells after cryopreservation, and maintain the differentiated functions of rat hepatocytes, compared to freshly isolated cells, as judged by viability (77-93%), adherence (77%) and metabolic functions of major cytochrome P450 isoforms CYP1A1/2, CYP2C6, CYP2D2, and CYP3A1/2. The advantage of using wheat proteins as cryopreservants is that they are non-toxic, natural products that do not require animal serum, and are economical and easy to prepare.
PMID: 19219915

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