CryoNet #33337 - #33339

CryoNet - Thu 17 Feb 2011

    #33337: Re: An empathetic civilization [David Stodolsky]
    #33338: Jewish News article [Ettinger]
    #33339: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Cryonic_prison_/_Kryonisches_Gef=E4ngnis?= [Jens Rabis]

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Message #33337
Subject: Re: An empathetic civilization
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:49:35 +0100
References: <[email protected]>

On 16 Feb 2011, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:
> 
> Message #33336
> From: marta sandberg <[email protected]>
> Subject: An empathetic civilization
> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:52:47 +0800
> 
> --_258c9826-52aa-4a37-9003-fd4fcbc35d6d_
> 
> 
> 
> This is an interesting illustrated speech.  The bit that got you might find most interesting is the middle when it says "There is no empathy in heaven because there is no mortality.  Empathy is grounded ion the acknowledgement of death and the celebration of life and rooting for each other to flourish and be .
> 
> Does that mean we have to live in fear of death to be empathetic?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g&feature=related
> 
> Long (empathatic)  life,
> 
> Marta


Jeremy Rifkin is a well known popularizer of nonsense.  

The BRA has lately been issuing nonsense about 'overpopulation' and this is along that line. 'Overpopulation' is one reason people believe that cryonics is immoral. 

Empathy  is not "soft-wired", but hard-wired in the brain, as shown by the work on mirror neurons.

The term "consciousness" is so vague as to be useless, without further specification of meaning. 

Identification with all human kind is possible, if there is an 'other' beyond the human race, since social distinctions are made one level down from the 'whole' of the social sphere.

The idea of empathy with the creatures of the biosphere is derived from the work of eco-fundamentalist/fascists that declared that bacteria, etc. should be given the same rights as humans. These individuals don't care about human life, they want to "Save the Planet."

The idea that there is no empathy without death, contradicts what was said about mirror neurons. This idea is derived from the work of L. Kass, the Head of Bush's Bio-ethics Committee, who argued that mortality is a virtue. 

So all in all, the presentation could hardly be designed to better turn people against cryonics. 


dss

David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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Message #33338
From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:12:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Jewish News article

The current (Feb.17) issue of the Detroit Jewish News (a weekly) has  an 
article on cryonics and CI. It's pretty good, but quotes rabbis who say it is  
against Jewish law.
 
Robert Ettinger

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Message #33339
From: "Jens Rabis" <[email protected]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Cryonic_prison_/_Kryonisches_Gef=E4ngnis?=
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:13:20 +0100

Hi cryonauts,

I have a slightly unusual idea. The idea would perhaps bring more money into
the cryonic research: No matter what setting has / is to think of the death
penalty ... on a matter, everyone agrees. When miscarriages of justice and
evidence processes (without witness) lead to the death penalty, all(!)
people do not feel good. Even the people who are pro / for the death
penalty. 
I would like to invite you to think about spreading the idea of cryonic
prisons. This could also mean that there will be more pardons, where is the
decision maker uncertain. 
The cryonic prisons are then not only a second chance but also research
institution. The pardoned are not decrepit, so there is no logical conflict
with the "life science". It is interesting that death penalty opponents also
support the project with donations?

I am sure that there will be controversy, whether real murderer (with
witnesses) should get Cryonics to banish them later on distant planets
>>>Prison- / education- / Second- Chance-Planet, after their resurrection.
Which pardoned rise again, the people have a lot of time to discuss. I think
it is good, if the pardoned is not sure if the people he allows (gets the
grace) of their resurrection really. 

Another Financing idea as donations: In the U.S. prisons are privatized i.e.
it would be possible to make a cryonic range / section. Or starting a new
cryonics-prison-stock company. Profits generated by the tax payer and
civilian and military research. I would buy those shares :-) You also?


*****

ich habe eine etwas auBergewohnliche Idee. Die Idee wurde vielleicht mehr
Geld in die kryonische Forschung bringen:  Egal welche Einstellung/Meinung
man zu der Todesstrafe hat ... in einer Angelegenheit sind sich alle einig.
Wenn Justizirrtumer und Indizienprozesse zur Todesstrafe fuhren, haben
alle(!) Menschen kein gutes Gefuhl. Selbst die Menschen, welche Pro d.h. fur
die Todesstrafe sind.
Ich mochte Euch einladen, daruber nachzudenken, die Idee von kryonischen
Gefangnisse zu verbreiten. Das konnte auch dazu fuhren, dass es mehr
Begnadigungen geben wird, wo sich der Entscheider unsicher ist.
Die kryonischen Gefangnisse sind dann nicht nur eine 2. Chance, sondern auch
Forschungseinrichtung. Die Begnadigten sind nicht altersschwach, somit gibt
es keine logischen Konflikte mit der "Lebenswissenschaft". Interessant wird
es, ob auch Todesstrafengegner das Projekt mit Spenden unterstutzen?

Ich bin mir sicher, dass es Streit geben wird, ob auch wirkliche Morder (mit
Zeugen) Kryonik bekommen sollen, um sie spater auf ferne Planeten zu
verbannen >>> Gefangnis- / Erziehungs- / 2. Chance-Planet, nach ihrer
Wiederauferstehung.
Ob der Verurteilte wirklich wiederauferstehen darf, dafur hat die
Gesellschaft dann Zeit zu diskutieren. Ich glaube es ist gut, wenn der
Verurteilte sich nicht sicher ist, ob er die Gnade des Volkes bekommt ...

Eine andere Finanzierungs-Idee als Spenden: In den USA sind Gefangnisse
privatisiert d.h. man konnte dort einen kryonischen Bereich/Abschnitt
machen. Oder man grundet eine neue Kryonik-Gefangnis-Aktiengesellschaft.
Gewinne entstehen durch den Steuerzahler und zivile und militarische
Forschungen. Solche Aktien wurde ich kaufen :-) Du auch?

Best greetings
Jens Rabis
Germany-Berlin
"The time is with us, we can ... more! Life is for my ... curiosity :-)
Cryonics is not ... immortality!"

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