CryoNet #33342 - #33345

CryoNet - Sun 20 Feb 2011

    #33342: DNJ article highlights [Ettinger]
    #33343: How to feel safer, a lot safer! [david pizer]
    #33344: Re: CryoNet #33341 [doctor Robert]
    #33345: Finally: More-time! [Gary Kline]

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Message #33342
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:04:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: DNJ article highlights

The (weekly) Detroit Jewish News issue of Feb. 17 has a feature article on  
cryonics and the Cryonics Institute, and I now have a paper copy.
 
The writer is Shelli Liebman Dorfman, who makes an effort to be fair,  
although she doesn't offer a good account of the evidence in support of cryonics 
 and barely refers to the CI web site, without naming it. The main negative 
 bits were in the obligatory quotes by "authorities" in science or 
religion, as  well as some lay opinions. 
 
The rabbis quoted said the practice is against the Jewish  religion,  which 
requires quick burial. In ancient times, of course, a corpse left out in  
the heat of a day in Israel would quickly bloat and stink, so common sense at 
 that time demanded quick burial. Similarly, ancient practicalities 
underlie the  dietary laws. How many modern Jews will pay attention to the ancient 
custom is  conjecture, but I suspect this, if it ostensibly occurs, will in  
most cases be only an excuse for a deeper aversion. We'll see if there is  
any noticeable response from readers in the form of queries to CI or new  
memberships.
 
At any rate, here are some of the writer's comments, paraphrased:
 
Joe Kowalsky, raised in an orthodox Jewish home, is a member of the Board  
of Directors of CI, and explains why he thinks it is not against his  
religion.
 
David Ettinger, CI's main attorney, gave  his first public interview  on 
cryonics at age 12. His wife Constance, also an attorney, is a member of its  
Board of Directors.
 
Cryonics is not illegal anywhere in North America.
 
Minimum cost of $28,000 at CI is correctly stated.
 
Of three local Jewish funeral home spokesmen, two said they had received  
questions about cryonics but not requests for such service.
 
The CI system does not depend on electric power, although there is an  
emergency generator.
 
CI patient population is given as 102 (since up one to 103).
 
Cryonics does not offer eternal life or any guarantees, but  hope for 
extended life without senescence. 
 
Answers are given to population control questions and questions of  
readjustment of revived patients. 
 
One rabbi said that a person is either dead or alive, with no middle  
ground.
 
--So, perhaps enough here to arouse interest in some readers. We'll  see.



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Message #33343
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:26:04 -0800 (PST)
From: david pizer <[email protected]>
Subject: How to feel safer, a lot safer!

Mr. Monroe said:  "Now, if we KNEW beyond doubt that cryonics worked because we had demonstrated revivals, then going to cryo earlier would be a better idea, because you are safer inside an armored vault than walking the street." 

Mr. Monroe makes some good points and I agree with him with just a little adjustment.

I feel safer if when I was declared legally dead I was properly prepared and put in a cryonics dewer rather then becoming cremation ashes in a flower pot.

I feel safer if at legal death being put in a dewer rather then being in a box six feet under dirt.

However, I feel safer walking the street than being in a dewer. Although that may change if we can make cryonics better soon.  Even though Alcor has made great strides in the past, there are still a lot of hurdles in the future.  That is why all Alcor members need to volunteer more to do work for Alcor, and to help Alcor raise more money.  We need more research in medicine and the mechanics of preparing and storing our patients.  We need to prepare for legal challenges as cryonics grows in popularity and therefore as some non-cryonicists begin to feel threatened by the cryonics prospect of immortality.

Therefore, I think all cryonicists will feel safer if they know they are doing all that they can to support and advance cryonics and their cryonics service provider.

David Pizer

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Message #33344
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 12:16:30 -0800
Subject: Re: CryoNet #33341
From: doctor Robert <[email protected]>

--0016e65a0dfc5e09f2049ca84e12

>
>
>
>    #33341: Re: CryoNet #33340 [Gerald Monroe]
>
>
> There are two glaring errors in Gerald's post to Jon; The first "...Safer
> in an armored vault than walking the streets...:  ignores the fact that the
> maintenance of that vault and your future is totally dependent on the
> employees of the vault company and they are totally dependent on a
> technologically competent community which itself is dependent on the larger
> society that is adept enough to become self sustaining without destroying
> each other or the biosphere in the process, something we have not
> accomplished yet. You, Jon, may very well be much safer on your own two
> feet. Second:   Immortality:  It is going to be hard to be something which
> we cannot successfully define or imagine. A "very very long life" is
> conceivable, Immortality is a religious concept, not a rational one. Dr.
> Robert

--0016e65a0dfc5e09f2049ca84e12

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Message #33345
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 00:00:28 -0800
From: Gary Kline <[email protected]>
Subject: Finally: More-time!

In recent months my workload is such that my shoulder has stopped
aching so intensely.  I am down to one computer project to help the
speech impaired, and besides making an attempt to publicize my
novel, I am learning to blog.

So time to ask some serious questions here; see if there are any
replies.  Now that I finally have the cash to self-finance my
suspension, I would like to be certain that it actually happens when
I die.  

There are many hospitals and ER's here in Metro Seattle, but I have
one facility where I plan to be.  If I am within 6 months or fewer
of death I have the option of voluntary suicide.  I have been
wondering how many cryo-techs are required to be at my bedside upon
my death, (1).  And (2), how much would it cost to have the minimum
in hardware to prep someone who has just breath his last?

Thanks for some insights.

--
 Gary Kline  [email protected]  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
           Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org
          The 7.98a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org

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