Re: SFGR no more?

Kala, tote ksekinousa ena flame war me ena single post typou 'arximandritis' 
(TM).

Giati na min to kano kai tora loipon? Epidi meta tha arxisoun oi kravges 
'off-topic',
kai ta minimata tou styl 'mou floudarete to mailbox mou kyrie Kimina', kai 
ta requests
'parakalo sviste me apo ti lista' apo aftous pou exoun graftei stin lista 
gia na lamvanoun
7 minimata to mina anti gia 552, kai meta o listarxos tha me petaksei ekso 
apo ti lista
kai meta tha prepei na kano ena soro tricks gia na ksanampo stin lista ek 
tis opisthias
odou (!), klp, klp...

Ax, ekeines tis epoxes imastan maximoi Georgie, tora zoyme meres parakmis...

======================================================

Pantos to thryliko dispute kat'eme (to opoio fylao se ksexoristo folder sto
Outlook mou mexri simera, elave xora tin periodo Fevrouariou/Martiou 2000).

Xaraktiristika subjects :

It's Logic
Erotimata Logikis kai oxi pistis
Petradaki Petradaki
It's NOT Logic
The End
The End. Am de!
Telos Epoxis
Flamewars
Apantisi sta 123 grammata pou mou irthane
The -final -end
Logika
Tha elega
Eksogiinoi, Thriskia kai Ithiki
Life?
Den tha elega
O.S.F.N.2
Androylakis
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!
Trollbound

Elavan meros: Dimitris Kiminas, Panagiotis Andriopoulos, George Schizas,
George Menegakis, Manolis Manolas, C. Voulgaris, Stratari, G.P.Kalogiannis,
thAAAnos, Vangelis Kritikos, Dimitris Tsallas, Theodore Georgakopoulos,
Tom Tziros, morgana, morpheus, Argyreas Thomas, Petros Avlitis, Dendris 
Nikolaos.

Prosklitirio! Posoi apo esas eiste akoma edo?

Xaraktiristika quotes (filed under the 'ti mou thymises tora' category):

> Vangelis Kritikos wrote:
> > De niotheis pragmatika poly-poly tyxeros poy ETYXE na genhtheis sth 
> > SOSTH
> > xora, sto SOSTO politistiko periballon, etsi oste na exeis thn eykairia 
> > na
> > matheis thn monh SOSTH kai APOLYTH alhtheia, protou molyntheis me alles
> > LATHOS alhtheies;

Dimitris Kiminas:
Ean mia Thriskeia apo oles tis Thriskeies toy kosmoy einai sosti, aftoi poy
gennithikan sti SOSTI xora einai pragmati tyxeroi. Ti soy fainetai
parakseno?

-----------------

From: George M. Menegakis <[email protected]>
> Nai  gia  emena  einai  to  idio.  Egw  den  xreiazomai dhmiourgo. Esy pou 
> ton
> xreiazesai to exeis. Got it ??

Dimitris Kiminas:
To an Ton xreiazesai i den Ton xreiazesai einai irrelevant.

------------------

From: G.P. Kalogiannis <[email protected]>
> oxi, yparxei h akolouthia AITO-ENERGEIA-ALLAGH.
> otan h xlwrofyllh allazei apo to fws tou hliou, den xreiazetai "theia" 
> parembash, ths
> arkei h hliakh energeia.
> esy bebaia tha peis oti "ma o Hlios einai ftagmenos apo ton Theo"
> kai tha sou apanthsw: OXI, o hlios einai mia AYTOTROFODOTOUMENH pyrhnikh 
> kaysh pou
> prokaleitai apo thn megalh sygkentrwsh mazas.
> kai tha peis "ma thn ylh thn eftiaxe o Theos"
> kai tha sou apanthsw oti "h ylh einai ftiagmenh apo swmatidia, gia ta 
> opoia yparxei mia
> sygkekrimenh sxesh mazas-energeias (to gnwsto E=mc2)"
> kai tha mou peis "kai thn energeia poios thn eftiaxe"
> kai tha sou pw: h energeia yphrxe (sto "kosmiko aygo").
> kai tha mou peis "ma tote h Energeia einai o Theos"
>
> tote tha akouseis ena megaleiwdes sixtirisma...

Dimitris Kiminas:
Kai to kosmiko avgo poios to eftiakse?

------------

Dimitris Kiminas:
> Kai to kosmiko avgo poios to eftiakse?

George Schizas:
H kosmikh kota? :) Opws _ksanaeipa_ h anagwgh pros ta pisw sto apeiro den
einai kati pou antibainei tous kanones ths logikhs. To an yparxei kati sthn
arxh tou apeirou h oxi einai kathara thema pisths.

------------

Manolas Manolis wrote:
Den ta les sosta Dimitri.
To erotima ine "Mpori o 8eos na ari tin pantodinamia tou?"
I apantisi ine "Mpori". Afou den 8a ine pantodinamos pleon, den 8a
mpori na "sikosi petres" opos lei to sofisma.
(To an 8eli i an den 8eli na tis sikosi den ehi pleon noima).
Ego pantos, an imouna sti 8esi tou (os pansofos) den 8a dehomouna
na aro tin pantodinamia mou, oso ki an epimeni o GMM.

From: "George M. Menegakis"
Synepws  gia  na  einai  pantodynamos tha prepei na arei thn pantodynamia 
tou.
To  problhma  einai  pws  afou  einai  PANTODYNAMOS (dhladh mporei na kanei 
TA
PANTA)  tha  eprepe  na  mporei  na  einai  pantodynamos  XWRIS  na  arei 
thn
pantodynamia tou.

----------

From: Vangelis Kritikos <[email protected]>
> Nai. Einai, oso kai an sou fenetai xazo. Fainetai apithano na broume
> stroumfakia, alla de mporoume na to apokleisoume. To ennoo.
> Vangelis

Dimitris Kiminas:
Oi Atheoi omos apokleioyn tin Yparksi Theoy kai emfanizoyn kai
toys eaftoys toys os APOLYTA logikoys.

-----------------

From: Panayiotis Andriopoulos <[email protected]>
Mia alli apantisi (anef kikirikoy) dino sto [reply 6/9]

-----------

From: Dimitris Kiminas
>Eisai me ta kala soy? Gia na piaso na soy eksigo gramm-grammi tin Agia
>Grafi tha xreiasto xronia!!!

From: Vangelis Kritikos <[email protected]>
> A, kala, de to skefthka sygnommh.

-----------
George Schizas/Dimitris Kiminas

Anagontas tin Allagi se kapoia proigoymeni Allagi, tha meneis panta me mia
Allagi poy tha prepei na eksigiseis. Kati poy me olo afto to sylogismo
prospathoyme na apofygoyme.

>To oti o peperasmenos nous mas den mporei na to syllabei, den
>shmainei oti den einai dynato.

Opote, kai to oti o peperasmenos nous mas den mporei na syllabei epakrivos
tin ennoia toy Theoy, episis den simainei oti Aytos den yparxei.

> To an pisteueis sto Theo h oxi einai kathara thema pisths. Mporeis na
> *pisteueis* oti yparxei Theos, den mporeis na to *ksereis*. Poly 
> perissotero
> den mporeis na *ksereis* oti oi alles thrhskeies einai lathos kai mono h
> dikia mas einai swsth. Mporei na to *pisteueis* alla den mporeis na to
> *apodeikseis*, den mporeis na to *ksereis*.

To mono poy prospatho na kano edo einai na po oti einai *Logiko* na yparxei
Theos. Apo kei kai pera ego Pistevo oti yparxei Theos. Einai fysiko oti den
mporo na apodeikso oti yparxei. Afto den simainei oti enas Atheos einai se
kalyteri thesi apo emena. Mallon se xeiroteri. Giati parolo poy yparxoyn
pithanotites na apodeixthei i yparki toy Theoy sto Mellon, den yparxei
KAMMIA pithanotita na apodeixthei i anyparksia toy.

-----------

From: Panayiotis Andriopoulos <[email protected]>
Egw kserw oti kolash thewreitai h apousia toy theou. Alla tote o theos den
einai pantaxou parwn kai ta panta plhrwn.
An exeis antilogo panw sto ti einai kolash (elpizw na katalavaineis oti den 
me
apasxolei h ekdoxh me ta kazania) tha me endiefere poly na ton akoysw.

-------------

From: "George M. Menegakis" <[email protected]>
Meta  apo  polla  xronia  parousias sth  lista  (eimai  enas apo tous 
Megalous
Palious, pou tha elege kai o Asterhs) eftase h wra gia thn apoxwrish mou.
Se  ena  mhna  parousiazomai sto strato, alla se merikes meres, mias kai 
feugw
apo to panepisthmio, xanw kai th syndesh mou sto net.
Opote  hrthe  h  wra na sas apoxairethsw exontas thn elpida oti meta to 
strato
tha ta poume ksana edw.
Kala na pernate mexri tote.

------------

morpheus wrote:
> Paidia, teleiwse to flamewar na paroume kamia tzoura;

From: stratari <[email protected]>
Flamewar? Poy to eides Asterh?
Syzhtoysa me filo apo th lista xues kai katalhjame pws to epipedo toy 99%
twn mail twn teleytaiwn ebdomadwn htan se akrws ychlo epipedo. Mporei to
uema na htan off topic alla emena toylaxiston moy edwse thn eykairia na
jafniastw eyxarista anakalyptontas pws oi perissoteroi blepoyme ta pragmata
me paromoio tropo. Eyxaristw olocyxa ton Dimitri Kimina poy synebale
s'ayto! :-)))
Gia mia akomh fora aisuanomai perhfanos poy eimai melos ths listas sfgr!
Na'ste kala oloi!
Stratos 'pappoys' Kyriazidhs

-----------------

From: "George M. Menegakis" <[email protected]>
> To  na mhn katalavaineis kati einai dekto. To na poulas eksypnada gia kati 
> pou
> den katalavaineis einai blakwdes.
                          ^^^^^^^^^
Ksexna  oti  eipa  to  parapanw...  Apla exw kakh diathesh. To pairnw pisw 
kai
syggnwmh.

------------

Stratos 'pappoys' Kyriazidhs Wrote...
>Eyxaristw olocyxa ton Dimitri Kimina poy synebale s'ayto! :-)))

From: "G.P. Kalogiannis" <[email protected]>
oxi kai Dimitri, tou xalas olh thn eikona! DHMHTRIO! :-))

----------------

 From: "George M. Menegakis" <[email protected]>
> Pantodynamos; Eisai poly sigouros;
> Mporei na ftiaksei mia petra toso baria pou na mh mporei na th shkwsei

gia na ftia3ei mia petra pou den mporei na shkwsei prepie prwta na
ftia3ei
mia megalyterh gia na sta8ei ara mporei na ftia3ei mia petra megalyterh
apo uthn thn petra pou den mporei na shkwsei alla ama uth h petra
einai poly megalh tote ayth katalhgei se mia mayrh trypa kai o 8eos
peytei mesa kai den ton 3anablepoume.. opote katafeygoume sto
e3hs logiko oti osoi 8ei epixeirhsan kati den yparxoun pia opote
oloi oi 8eoi pou yparxoun pote den 8a epixeirhsoun kati tetoio opote
einai askopo na rwtas an 8a to kanoun...

->thAAAnos<-
egw prwsopika den 8a to kanw...

-------------------

thAAnos/George M. Menegakis

> 2)sth logikh den yparxei mono to nai/oxi blepe logismo lamda
> opote mhn 3anakousw gia apodei3eis

Oi  times  alhtheias  mporei  na einai kai yperarithmishmes, eksartatai apo 
to
systhma pou eksetazeis kai to kyriwtero apo tis erwthseis pou kaneis.
Sthn erwthsh omws "Yparxei Theos" den xwraei isws. Eite nai eite oxi.
Kai  oson afora tis apodeikseis protou arxizeis na les gia pleitimh logikh 
kai
mathhmatika systhma rhkse mia matia sta themelia.
H apodeiksh einai apodeiksh pou einai apodeiksh.
An  mporeis  na  metabeis  apo  ena  kanona  se  ena allo me xrhsh kanwnwn 
tou
systhmatos tote exeis apodeiksh.

> 2b)h logikh einai dhmiourghma tou an8rwpou o 8eos einai epishs
> dhmiourghma tou an8rwpou, alla h logikh den dhmiourghse ton an8rwpo...

Den  kserw  an  o  theos einai dhmiourghma tou anthrwpou, oson afora th 
logikh
eimai sxedon sigouros.

> 3)to mpalonaki kapoia stigmh mporei na spasei kai ola ta pragmata
> pou exoun petaxtei ap'e3w na r8oun pali mesa...
> ... ayto mou 8ymhse mia hstoria gia ena zwo pou genate mesa se ena
> kelyfos peranei olh tou thn zwh ekei mesa kai otan kapote to kelifos
> spasei pe8ainei apo shock... sto helliconia toy aldis htan nomizw...
> allo ena biblio pou asxoleitai me to 9ema thw 8rhskeias...

Kai an to mpalonaki einai tetoio pou DEN spaei ;
An  gennhtheis  mesa  se  mia  maurh  trypa  tote  olos  o kosmos sou einai 
to
eswteriko ths. Eidika an ypothesoume oti oi maures trypes den odhgoun 
pouthena
pera apo thn anyparksia

> 10)fantare pou pas?

omws touth h thhteia, den tha mas bgalei pouthena...

--------------

Stratari:
> >Egw jerw pws sto dhmotiko to mauhma twn urhskeytikwn (poy parempiptontws
> >apo perisy onomazetai "Oruodojh Xristianikh Agwgh" kai to biblio ths E'
> >tajhs "Me ton Xristo ston agwna") didasketai dyo wres th bdomada enanti
> >mias (apo mia) ths Gewgrafias, Koinwnikhs agwghs, moysikhs, texnikwn.

C. Voulgaris:
> Yperaspizomai toso to mathima ton Thriskeytikon ( h opos allios legete),
> giati opos eipa kai se allo mail eixa th tyxi na moy to kanei enas poly
> fotismenos anthropos apo ton opoio kerdisa, gia kapoia xronia sto Lykeio.
> Esy sa daskalos de niotheis pos exeis dyo ores thn ebdomada na doylepseis
> me tis "agnes" psyxes ton mikron paidion kai na toys doseis na katalaboyn
> thn orthothta th shmasia kai thn a3ia kapoion idanikon esto kai an to
> kaneis ayto xreisimopoiontas th didaskalia kai tis paraboles kapoioy poy
> legotan Ihsous Xristos?

------------

Dimitris Kiminas:
> Parakalo! (Alitheia, esy poy xathikes?)

Stratari:
De xauhka. Parakoloyuw. Apla:
1. M'aresei na diabazw toys alloys, n'akoyw.
2. Parathrhsa pws arketes fores mperdeyeis katastaseis. P.x. dhlwsa
aurhskos kai oxi aueoskai to ejhghsa. Alla einai fysiko. Eisai (sxedon)
monos apo th mia pleyra kai eimaste para polloi apo thn allh. Einai
anurwpino na kaneis lauh otan exeis n'apanthseis se polloys. Eipa loipon na
se jekoyrasw ligo! :-))

---------------

Dimitris Tsallas:
Ma giati kaneis de skefthke to pio aplo: o ueos aplvs ua allajei toys 
kanones
ths logikhs gia na aruei to paradojo.

------

Tom Tziros:
> EPITELOYS terma h tzampa syndesh... Stamatav na plhrvnv. EPITELOYS ginesai 
> kai esy
> KOROIDO FOROLOGOYMENOS. Tosa xronia ayto perimena. H ekdikhsh einai ena 
> piato poy
> trvgetai kryo.... Sto dromo gia thn karvth perna na me xairetiseis.

Dimitris Tsallas:
Xa! Pali thn pathses Yperboreie: poios nomizeis oti ua plhrvnei th stolh kai 
to
fai toy oso ua yphretei th mama patrida? Esy koroido forologoymene! :))

------------

Manolis Manolas wrote:
> Gia paradigma, pigene se ena estiatorio, paragile mia
> omeleta ke meta na perigrapsis ton magiro/tin magirisa(?).
> Des to aftokinito sou ke meta milise mas gia ton dimiourgo tou.

From: Dimitris Tsallas
Atyxes to paradeigma. Apo thn omeletta den ua bgei symperasma, mporeis omvs 
na
peis to idio an melethseis to synolo tvn faghtvn poy ftiaxnei? Sigoyra 
mporeis
na ftaseis se kapoia symperasmata poy ua zvgrafisoyn pleyres ths 
prvsopikothtas
toy/ths. To idio isxyei kai gia ton dhmioyrgo toy aytokinhtoy (opoy
dhmioyrgos=etaireia, giati profanvs sth dhmioyrgia enos aytokinhtoy paizoyn
polla pragmata rolo).
P.S. Paraklhsh an einai eykolo na akoloyueitai stoixeivdvs h oruografia tvn
kanonikvn ellhnikvn kai sta greeklgish giati mail xvris dichfa fvnhenta 'h
diaxvrismo metajy givta kai hta einai (toylaxiston gia mena) poly 
dysanagnvsta
(ayto to "ishii" sygkekrimena to diabasa dyo fores mexri na to katalabv).

------------

Dimitris Kiminas:
P.S. Afto to "dichfa" to diavasa oxto fores mexri na to katalavo :)

---------------

Dimitris Kiminas:

Not everybody knows that, alla ypotithetai oti ti stoli kai to fai toy tin 
plironei o
idios me tin ergasia toy. O misthos toy Stratioti einai peripoy 80.000 drx, 
oi
opoies katakratoyntai apo ti monada gia to royxismo, sitisi, kai stegasi 
toy.
Afto poy perisevei einai oi 'kakofimes' 980 draxmes poy pairnei o Stratiotis
kathe mina sto xeri. (Kakofimes giati synithos o sitistis den soy dinei to
xiliariko ean den exeis na toy doseis to eikosariko!!!)

Etsi skepsoy prin diamartiritheis gia ta mpanal royxa, to apaisio fai kai to
saravalo krevati poy koimase parea me 10 peinasmenoys korioys:

Me 79.020 drx to mina ti itheles? Ksenodoxeio A' katigorias?  :))))

-------------

From: thAAAnos <[email protected]>
> pisteyw oti h olh syzhthsh gia thn apodei3h ths ypar3hs toy 8eou einai
> prowrh to prwto pou prepei na anarwth8oume kai na orisoume einai
> ti einai o 8eos?
>
> kai loipon egw rwtaw ti einai o 8eos?

Dimitris Kiminas:
Moy fainetai oti den diavazeis ola ta mynimata Athanasie.

O Theos Einai Analoiotos. Einai Anaitios. Einai Anapofefktos. Einai Teleios.

PANTODYNAMOS KAI PANTAXOY PARON sto Sympan mas, os to
Apolyto Aitio olon ton Allagon kai olon ton Pithanotiton

Poio apla, o Theos einai o LOGOS.

Aparadekto pantos, na min ksereis ti einai Theos kai na ysxirizesai oti
eisai kai esy enas. :)

------------------

Demetrius Kiminas/George Schizas

> Kai giati na allazei to DNA?

Epeidh mpla...mpla...mpla... kosmikes aktines ...mpla...mpla...mpla...

< Kai giati kosmikes aktines?

Epeidh mpla...mpla...mpla...

< kai giati mpla...mpla...mpla...?

Legetai anthrwpikh arxh (enallaktikh lysh ths yparkshs Theou).

Apo apeirous kosmous pou exoun dynatothta na dhmiourghthoun* (kai pithanon
exoun dhmiourghthei) mono enas (?) exei tetoies arxikes parametrous wste na
mporei na dhmiourghthei ena on pou na kanei autes tis erwthseis
*antimetwpizw th dhmiourgia kathara san apotelesma twn arxikwn parametrwn.

Dimitris Kiminas:
Enas kosmos den mporei na dimioyrgithei monos toy. (my belief, of course!)

George Schizas:
An exoume kapoies arxikes synthikes, ta atoma kai ta moria tha kinhthoun
pros orismenes kateuthynseis, me orismenh taxythta kai ephreazomena apo
orismenes dynameis. Se ena kosmo opou p.x. h barythta tha htan pio isxyrh
apo to fortio, mporei sta 5 prwta lepta to olo "sympan" na katerree. Me tis
synthkes pou exoume sto diko mas sympan, mporesan ta atoma na ginoun moria,
na dhmiourghthoun galaxies, astra kai planhtes, kai se ena apo autous ta
moria organwthikan etsi (thema fysikhs epiloghs) wste na mporoume emeis na
kanoume autes tis skepseis.

Dimitris Kiminas:
Pos dimioyrgithikan oi 'arxikes synthikes'?
Giati na kinoyntai ta moria?
Giati na exoyn taxytita?
Giati na yparxoyn dynameis poy na ta epireazoyn?
Giati na epikratoyn sto sympan mas synthikes poy na epitrepoyn sta
atoma na ginoyn moria?
Giati ta moria na mporoyn na organothoyn?
Giati na mporoyme emeis na skeftomaste?

George Schizas
Oi arxikes sythikes den dhmiourghthikan. Apo ta apeira parallhla sympanta
pou yparxoun, mono sto diko mas ta moria kinountan, eixan taxythta klp. wste
na mporoume emeis na skeftomaste.

Dimitris Kiminas
Oi arxikes synthikes dimioyrgithikan. Den arxisan na yparxoyn ksafnika apo
to miden giati 'etsi toys kapnise'. (My belief, ofcourse).
Tora, an nomizeis oti apantises sta parapano erotimata me to "Apo ta apeira
parallhla sympanta pou yparxoun, mono sto diko mas ta moria kinountan,
eixan taxythta klp. wste na mporoume emeis na skeftomaste."....
BTW, pos ksereis oti yparxoyn parallila sympanta? Mipos apla to pisteveis?
Allos enas paralogos stin parea!!! :)

From: George Schizas <[email protected]>
> Kat' arxhn den eipa oti pisteuw sta parallhla sympanta. Apla prosefera mia
> ennalaktikh "logikh" lysh. Den lew oti den yparxei theos, oute oti 
> yparxei.
> Den mporoume omws na xrhsimopoihsoume th logikh (oso "logikh" kai an mas
> fainetai h yparksh h mh tou Theou) gia na apofanthoume. Oso gia pisth, 
> einai
> poly pio efikto na apodeixtei oti yparxoun parallhla sympanta, para to oti
> yparxei theos.

Dimitris Kiminas:
Ma kai i yparksi ennalaktikon sympanton na apodixthei, den simainei oti den
yparxei Theos! Aplos oti to dimioyrgima Toy einai pio polyploko apo oso
pistevame mexri simera.

---------------

Dimitris Kiminas:
> Aparadekto pantos, na min ksereis ti einai Theos kai na ysxirizesai oti
> eisai kai esy enas. :)

Thaaanos:
eipa htan rhtorikh erwthsh!

------------

Demetrius Kiminas wrote:
> O Atheos den exei me ti na fanatistei????????????
>
> H sistimatiki dioksi ton Thriskevomenon tis anatolikis Evropis apo ta 
> Athea
> kathestota den eixe tipote to fanatiko, etsi?
>
> Ma vevaia, otan oi Kinezoi esfazan toys Thivetianoys monaxoys, itan fysika
> o thriamvos tis logikis.
>
> Kai otan oi Alvanoi katargisan tis Thriskeies stin Alvania kai eriksan 
> oloys
> toys Ieromenoys sta katanagkastika erga apo opoy kanenas den epezise, itan 
> o
> thriamvos tis dikaiosynis, sosta?

From: Theodore Georgakopoulos <[email protected]>
Oi Sobietikoi, oi kinezoi kai oi loipoi anatolikoeurwpaioi kommounistes 
eixan
kai paraeixan antikeimeno na fanatistoun - ton idio ton kommounismo. Mporei 
na
mhn einai akribws 8rhskeia, alla einai (htan?) mia panisxyrh ideologia. 
Opoioi
kanoun egklhmata san auta pou anafereis EINAI fanatismenoi. Autoi omws den 
htan
"fanatikoi a8eoi", htan fanatikoi kommounistes, pou den mporousan na dextoun 
mia
allh organwsh na amfisbhthsei thn apolyth e3ousia tous sto lao. Kai fysika 
einai
katadikasteoi. Osoi symmetexoun edw sth lista den nomizw na fanatizontai me
tetoion tropo. Einai apla a8eoi kai den fanatizontai. O monos dogmatikos kai
fanatismenos edw mesa eisai sy.

--------------

"C. Voulgaris B9803816" wrote:
> An den kano lathos sth Deytera Lykeioy, oi mathites didaskontai kai tis
> basikes arxes allon thriskion. Episis pisteyo oti skopos ton thriskeytikon
> sto sxoleio einai na mathoyn stoys nearoys mathites kapoioys kanopnes
> hthikis kai oxi na fanatisoyn. Episis skopos toys einai na mathoyn stoys
> mathites kapoies paradoseis toy ethnoys toys, poy pali de theoro lathos.
> Alloste de mathainoyme mono peri Xristianismou. Sta 12 xronia toy sxoleioy
> kanoyme analytikotata ta panta peri tis latreias toy 12theoy. Etsi den
> einai?

From: Theodore Georgakopoulos <[email protected]>
AHDIES. Prokeitai gia to monimo HLI8IO epixeirhma twn papadwn otan kapoios
diamartyretai gia ton wmo prosylhtismo sta sxoleia. Ousiastika les oti to
ma8hma twn 8rhskeutikwn den einai kathxhsh, alla ma8hma genika peri 
8rhskeiwn
kai istorias. AM DE. Blepeis, to rolo ths 8rhskeias sthn ellhnikh istoria 
ton
ma8ainoun ta paidia outws h allws sthn istoria (e3wraismeno kai gemato 
psemata,
mind you). MHN EISAI AFELHS. To ma8hma twn 8rhskeutikvn, dyo didaktikes wres
KA8E ebdomada gia 12 xronia, einai stygnh propaganda kai tyflh kathxhsh.
Prokeitai gia EGKLHMA kata ths dhmokratias kai ths eleu8erhs skepshs. Oi
papades, blepontas oti h koinwnia den tous xreiazetai, oti oi goneis den
sernoun ta paidakia tous sthn ekklhsia, prospa8oun na ta ekfobisoun apo thn
didaktikh edra. Lene: me to pes pes, 12 xronia, olo kai kapoious pelates 8a
psarepsoume. Thn idia stigmh, h biologia, h episthmh ths zwhs, didasketai 
mono
se 2 h 3 xronia.

From: "C. Voulgaris B9803816" <[email protected]>
Proton den eimai AFELHS. Akribos giayo to logo exo thn ikanothta na
katalabaino pote kapoios moy leei blakeies kai pote oxi. Deyteron to mathima
ton Thriskeytikon se elaxista sxoleia didaskete apo papades. Synithos ginete
apo apofoitoys ton Theologikon tmhnaton ton Panepistimion mas, diladiu
morfomenoys anthropoys. KAi den exo akoysei poloys apo aytoys na lene
"pigene sthn ekklisia giati tha se kapsei o Theos". De 3ero an sthn epoxh
sou ginotan etsi, alla sth diki moy, apofoitisa to 96, ta pragmata exoyn
allaksei. Pos akribos ginete o prosilitismos?  Simera exei pio poly th morfh
didaskalias mias filosofias  oxi ghia propaganda, poso mallon gia EGKLIMA
kata ths dimokratias. An de theleis, apla de to kaneis to mathima.
Enalaktika apla ypostirizeis thn apopsi  soy kai kaneis DIALOGO ( gnosth
dimokratiki diadikasia) me ton kathigith kai toys symathiotes soy. Se
sxoleio eisai oxi sthn Iera E3etash.
Gia na kano biologia gia parapano apo 3 xronia poy kano hdh, peran toy oti
de blepo to nohma, xreiazomai kai ena soro parapleyres gnoseis opoy fysika
den einai dynaton na apoktiso sto sxoleio (Pao sto Panepistimio gi ayto.)
Ti lebne se teliki analysi ta Thriskeytika poy einai toso eglimatiko kata
tis Eleytheris Skepsis? Mh klepseis, mh foneyseis, mh zhleyeis klp . Esy me
thn eleytherh skepsh soy poy ta briskeis akribos lathos? H mhpos egien hdh
to eglima kai eis baros toy dikoy soy myaloy kai pia de mporeis na skefteis
Eleythera kai Dimokratika.

H ypar3h toy mathimatos aytoy apla de moy einai enoxlitiki, omos eisai toso
apolytos poy me anagazeis na apantiso se ayto to tono.....

      P.S. an thes na apantiseis prospathise na to kaneis xoris na
xaraktirizeis AHDIES ayta poy grafo. Apla pes th gnomh kai ta epixeirimata
soy.....

----------------

George Schizas:
> Allo to na einai logiko to na yparxei Theos kai allo to oti h yparksh tou
> Theou basizetai sth logikh. Pithanothtes na apodeixthei h yparksh Tou den
> nomizw oti yparxei

Dimitris Kiminas
Symfona me ti logiki, yparxoyn pithanotites na apodixthei i yparksi toy, 
alla
den yparxei kammia pithanotita na apodixthei i anyparksia toy.

Paradeigma apo ta Mathimatika:

To Pi toy kykloy 3,14..... exei ypologistei mexri kapoio ekatomyriosto 
psifio
(exei, malista vgei kai ena vivlio poy toys periexei--merikoi to onomasan
'to pio vareto vivlio toy kosmoy!). Loipon, as poume oti mexri simera den 
exoyn
anakalyfthei tria 7 sti seira se afto to dekadiko noymero.

Vgaino loipon ego kai leo: Pistevo oti yparxoyn tria synexomena eptaria sto
dekadiko tmima toy Pi. Kathos oi dekadikoi toy Pi ypologizontai olo kai me
megalyteri akriveia, kapoia mera mporei na vgo alithinos. Ean omos elega
oti 'den yparxoyn tria synexomena eptaria', oxi mono den mporo na to
apodeikso, alla den yparxei kammia pithanotita na apodeixthei kati tetoio.

----------------

From: Theodore Georgakopoulos <[email protected]>
> MHN EISAI AFELHS. To ma8hma twn 8rhskeutikvn, dyo didaktikes wres
> KA8E ebdomada gia 12 xronia, einai stygnh propaganda kai tyflh kathxhsh.

Dimitris Kiminas:
To mathima ton Thriskeftikon einai aparaitito gia na kseroyn ta paidia ti
presvevei i episimi Thriskeia toy kratoys mas. Pigaine se mia taksi tin ora
ton Thriskeftikon, i se mia ekklisia tin ora toy ekklisiasmoy, kai tha
diapistoseis poso apotelesmatiki einai i kata ta legomena soy "stygni
propaganda" kai i "tyfli katixisi". Vre paidi moy, telionoyn to sxoleio kai
mpainoyn kateftheian se monastiri--Thavma! Thavma!

-------------

Dimitris Kiminas/Thaaanos
Poio apla, o Theos einai o LOGOS.

> etsi apla kai afhrhmena?
> ti enoheis LOGOS le3h,dianoia,aitia,desmeysh?
> esy ti katalavaineis otan les logos?

STHN ARXH YPHRKSE O LOGOS, KAI O LOGOS EINAI O THEOS.
H noimosini poy ypirxe prin to sympan kai efthinetai gia ti dimioyrgia toy.

> edw nomizw oti kaneis la8os...
> nohmosynh shmainei nohthkes diergasies to idio kai h dianoia
> omws ayto den mporei na symbei xwris xrono.
> o theos den skeftetai... apla 3erei!
> dioti an anarwth8ei kati exei amesws thn apanthsh
> h mallon h erwthsh kai h apanthsh erxontai coupled!

Eee, telos panton Athaaanasie, theorise oti ola afta poy les
perilamvanontai sti xrisi toy oroy 'noimosyni' parapano..

--------------

From: Panayiotis Andriopoulos <[email protected]>
Gia thn arxh ths aprosdioristias exeis akousei tipota?

--------------

From: "morgana" <[email protected]>
KALA OLA AYTA, ALLA DEN MPOREITE NA GRAFETE LIGOTERA MAIL KYRIE KIMINE,
DIOTI MOU FLOODARETE TO MAILBOX.

EYXARISTW, MARGIE LAZOU

--------------

"G.P. Kalogiannis" wrote:
> Exw thn entypwsh oti o Ypourgos Exwterikwn ths xwras diabazei ayth thn 
> lista...

Stratari:
Einai palia EOKikh directiva alla par'ol'ayta, ki egw skefthka to idio xtes
brady! :-)))

----------------

George Schizas:
To aplopoiw, giati einai ligo mperdemeno (idiws gia osous den exoun diabasei
to Contact)

An ftiaksoume mia mhxanh texnhths nohmosynhs (i.e. ena programma) pou mesa
tou na yparxoun mikra "onta" pou na pisteuoun oti ta eftiakse enas theos,
ginomaste Theoi?

Mporei o Theos pou anagnwrizoume emeis na einai kapoios p.x. episthmonas pou
"eftiakse" to sympan se ena PC tou. Auto ton kanei "apla" ena epipedo
"Theosynhs" anwtero apo emas. Kai Autos omws mporei na einai programmataki
se ena PC kapoiou episthmona 2 epipeda "Theosynhs" panw apo emas klp.

Etsi, enw gia emas mporei na plhroi ola ta "apodeiktika stoixeia" tou oti
einai o Theos, sthn pragmatikothta den einai. Akoma kai "deutera parousia"
na ginotan (crash? :) ), pali den *apodeiknyetai* oti o xeirisths tou
"Kosmikou PC" einai Anarxos, Aiwnios klp.

An eimaste to oneiro tou Theou, ton Theo poios Ton oneireuetai?

---------------

From: "morgana" <[email protected]>

AN ETSI AJIOLOGEITE TA MYNHMATA SAS KAI THS LISTAS KYRIE KIMINA TOTE EGW DEN
EXW KANENA PROBLHMA. ALLA NA JERETE KATI: FLAMEWARS PANTA YPHRXAN, PANTA 8A
YPARXOUN KAI KANEIS POTE DEN ALLAZEI APOPSH. OPOTE MHN NOMIZETE PWS KANETE
KATI TO IDIAITERO - PERAN TOU NA FLOODARETE TO MAILBOX MOU DHLADH

YOURS TRULY

------------

From: George Schizas <[email protected]>

> Ta 3 (h 33) synexomena eptaria einai kati pou mporei na katanohthei apo 
> ton
> anthrwpo. (apodeiksh: -> 777 ). O Theos oxi. Ara den mporei na apodeixtei 
> h
> yparksh tou, giati an ginotan katanohtos, auto tha htan se antithesh me th
> fysh tou.

Dimitris Kiminas
Otan synantiseis to Theo THA KSEREIS APOLYTA pos einai Ekeinos, gia
logoys poy simera den mporeis na katalaveis.

------------

Dimitris Kiminas:
Kai oson afora tin ekseliksi, tin teleftaia fora poy tsekarisa nomizo oti
eimastan oloi Homo Sapiens.

-------------

From: "morgana" <[email protected]>

A: DEN ME ENDIAFEROUN TI KANOUN OLOI OI YPOLOIPOI, AS PAN NA KOUREYONTAI.
EMENA ME ENDIAFEREI AYTO POU KANW MONO EGW.
B: OUTE AYTO OYTE KAI KANENA FLAME DEN EXEI PERISSOTERO VAROS APO OLA TA
YPOLOIPA. APLA DEN EXOUME TIPOTA NA KANOUME KAI ASXOLOUMASTE ME XAZOMARES.
C: PAR'OLA AYTA DEN SAS BLEPW NA GRAFETE LIGOTERA MYNHMATA, POLLW MALLON GIA
8EMATA POU EINAI IDIA. PREPEI KAPOIA STIGMH NA TO METRIASETE AYTO TO
SYNH8EIO, DIOTI DEIXNEI ELEIPSH SEBASMOU
D: GRAFW KEFALAIA GIATI ME AYTO TO ZHTHMA AIS8ANOMAI SAN TON MORT TOU
PRATCHETT
E: MHPWS JEREI KANEIS PWS KANEIS UNSUBSCRIBE APO THN LISTA?

MARG

--------------

Dimitris Tsallas:
Kala ola ayta peri fysikhs epiloghs, ayto omvs poy odhgei emena sthn 
pepoiuhsh
oti to sympan mas einai dhmioyrghma kai oxi tyxaio kataskeyasma einai h 
yparjh
tvn fysikvn nomvn katv apo toys opoioys leitoyrgei. Aytoi den ejelixthkan
symfvna me kapoia diadikasia epiloghs, ap' oso mporoyme na jeroyme yphrxan 
apo
thn arxh kai ua synexisoyn na yparxoyn analloivtoi. Aplvs etyxe ki aytoi na
einai svstoi se sxesh me alla parallhla sympanta? Mporei nai, mporei oxi, 
pantvs
emena me bazei se skeceis.

George Schizas:
H fysikh epilogh anaferetai stous fysikous nomous. Ta alla sympanta pou
eixan diaforetikous f.n. den "epezhsan" (me thn ennoia oti den eftiaksan
onta pou na skeptontai klp.). Auth legetai "anthrwpikh arxh". Den einai
aparaithta "swsth", apla dinei mia diaforetikh ermhneia tou "giati
yparxoume".

Dimitris Kiminas
Kata ti gnomi moy i 'anthropiki arxi' soy einai pio apithani apo tin
yparksi Theoy.
Oi fysikoi nomoi den arxisan na yparxoyn apo monoi toys sta ksafnika.

------------

From: "George Schizas" <[email protected]>
Anakalypsa oti h onelist.com exei balei kapoia arithmish twn myhnhmatwn kai
apo kei oti mou leipoun 33 mynhmata. Ta perissotera apo auta pou mou leipoun
einai mallon logw flooding, kyriws tou D. Kimina (pou se mia dosh exoun
stalei 8 me thn idia hmeromhnia). Ta katebazw apo to web, alla an den eixe
mesolabhsei to mail ths morgana pou apantouse se ena mail pou den eixa, den
tha to 'blepa.
BTW: Molis perasame ta 2000 mhnymata (To paron *prepei* na einai to 2003).
Paraklhsh: Otan stelnete POLLA mail mazi, prospathiste na ta stelnete
liga-liga (den kserw pws akribws, alla try anyway).

---------

Demetrius Kiminas wrote:
>Den aksiologisa ta mynimata tis listas os delete-material. Htan mia emesi
>anafora se ekeinoys poy ta svinoyn xoris na ta diavasoyn eite giati den
>toys apasxoloyn tetoia provlimata, eite giati den exoyn to xrono, eite 
>giati
>aplos varioyntai na ta diavasoyn.

From: morpheus <[email protected]>
"-Are you talking to me?
  Are you talking to *me*?
...'Coz I don't see anyone else around here"

(Travis Bickle, 'Cabdriver')

a. Kai gia na to kanw pio 3eka8aro, _filtate_: se ola ta mail pou esteila
sxetika me to flamewar, apefyga epimelws na anafer8w se sena h se
opoiondhpote allon, eite onomastikws eite dia spontas. 8a parakalousa
loipon na mou antapodwseis th xarh kai na afhseis tis 'emmeses
anafores', dioti ep'oudeni logw prokeitai na tsimphsw kai na symmetasxw
s'auth th sthmenh kouventa.

b. To mail auto einai to teleutaio apo mena pou
anaferetai s'auto to 8ema. O logos pou esvhsa ekeina ta mhnymata nomizw
diafainetai 3eka8aros ap'auta pou eipa: apex8anomai texnikes
proshlytismou kai junkmailing, kai ton teleutaio kairo, h lista exei
arxisei na vrwmaei akrivws auto. Epipleon, epeidh 8ewrw pws oi taktikes
autes einai kateu8ynomenes, katefyga gia prwth fora sth xrhsh killfiles
(filtrwn) gia sygkekrimena proswpa ws teleutaio metro prin diagrapsw
eauton apo th lista, giati pisteuw oti exei akoma logo ypar3hs kai
sygkentrwnei a3iologa atoma twn opoiwn oi apopseis me endiaferoun.
Diathrw omws to dikaiwma na epifylassomai ths apopsews mou gia orismena
8emata kai na ta syzhtaw me opoious egw epilegw. An auto fainetai se
kapoious ws adiaforia, de me apasxolei. Eixa thn entypwsh oti auth h
lista einai ena dhmokratiko forum dialogou, alla otan akouw krauges tou
typou "dhlwste oloi ta pisteuw sas, eidallws 8a kri8eite erhmhn sas",
arxizw na anhsyxw.

c. Endexomenws na ais8an8eis ypoxrewmenos na apanthseis sta parapanw,
alla 8a se symvouleua na mhn perimeneis antapanthsh apo mena.
...You're in my filter list :-)

Filika,
Asteris Masouras

Dimitris Kiminas:

a. H 'emesi' anafora moy itan: "pressing 'delete' is one of life's little
pleasures,
isn't it?" Vlepeis tipota kakovoylo? Yparxoyn pragmata poy den endiaferoyn
ki emena, you know, kai otan eipa to parapano kyriolektoysa.

Einai kako na min se apasxoloyn tetoia provlimata?

Einai kako na min exeis to xrono na asxolitheis me to trexon 'flame'?

Einai kako na variesai na diavaseis ola ta mails poy lamvaneis, otan
malista den aforoyn prosopika esena?

Ego tha elega oti den einai.

Tora an esy thixtikes me tin parapano paragrafo moy, kathe allon para
prothesi moy itan.

BTW, sxetika me to 'stimeno' toy thematos, apokalypses to mystiko
moy!! Molis dextho ta mynimata sas ta stelno stin Iera Moni Ksiropotamoy
toy Agioy Oroys, apo opoy mia eikosipentamelis epitropi monaxon kai
theologon frontizei gia tis apantiseis... :)))))

b. Mmm, malista. Loipon, parakalo poly ton/toys Listarxo/oys, an pistevoyn 
oti
oi apantiseis moy apoteloyn kindino gia ti lista (afaimaksi melon kai ta
toiafta) na moy zitisoyn na stamatiso tin sxetiki allilografia. I promise to
comply.

c. Apanto, esto kai dipla filtrarismenos! :))

Dimitris

---------------

From: "George Schizas" <[email protected]>

Koitaza ta log kai blepw oti h theologikh syzhthsh ekleise hdh ena mhna!!!
Nomizw oti einai to makrytero flame/thread pou apo katabolhs SFGR (v3)

Proswpika den nomizw pws einai kai toso flame, den yparxei kai toso entonh
antiparathesh pou na dikaiologei tetoio xarakthrismo. Apo thn allh bebaia h
apopsh mou einai mallon prokateilhmmenh, kathws eimai enas apo tous
prwtostathsantes (to prwto mhnyma, me titlo www.mega.doc pou anaferotane
sthn ekpomph tou Tsima htan diko mou) kai apo autous pou kindyneuoun amesa
se eggrafh se name-filtra, opote exw idion symferon na thn xarakthrisw
thread. Apo thn trith bebaia emena mou dothike eukairia na milhsw gia
parallhla sympanta, ekseliksh, sympanta mesa se sympanta k.a. pou einai
nomizw akrws sxetizomena me SF.

----------------

From: "Argyreas Thomas" <[email protected]>

...delurking:
Hi ... ksypnhsa! Giati, alhtheia, kanete toso thorybo?

To problhma ths pisths anagetai sto meizon problhma ths epibivshs vs ekshs:

a. O Anthrvpos gennietai mesa sto "Kalo". (Zestasia thalpvrh...)

b. O Anthrvpos egkataleipei to "Kalo" psaxnontas to "Kalytero" (ypo to
blemma ths manoulas...)

c. O Anthrvpos psaxnontas, synanta to "Kako" (manoulaaaa... fobamai monos
mou edv eksv...)

d. O Anthrvpos epilegei na zei sto "Kako" epeidh fobatai to "Xeirotero"
(Atimh koinvnia....)

e. O Anthrvpos dhmiourgei thn ennoia toy "Ypertatoy Kalou" gia na papsei
epitelous, na moutzvnetai ston kathrefth tou gia tis epiloges tou. (Kai tis
kyriakes forame loustrinia parakalv....)

f. O Antrvpos pisteyei pleon sto "Ypertato Kalo" me stoxo na ftiaksei dynath
omada me tous "kalous tou geitones" kai na kathypotaksei sto onoma toy
"Ypertatou Kalou" olous tous "kakous geitones" (kai na oikeiopoihthei oti
kalo diathetoun....) (Ta kala kai symferonta....)

g. Kathe pisth einai "Kalh pros eaythn" (Aytopathis idiothta)

h. O "kakos geitonas" exei "kakh pisth" (Synepagvgh)

i. Kane to "Kaloooo" kai rixto sto gialo (Ta apotelesmata ta blepoyme stis
paralies mas kathe kalokairi....)

Eimai eytyxhs sthn "Monaksia" mou
Filakia stis makryes geneiades. Panta htan psarvtikes....
:-))))))))))))))))

lurking...(zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
Tom (44 xvris ta kalokairia pou ta rixnv sto gialo!!!)

------------------

From: George Schizas <[email protected]>
> > Otan synantiseis to Theo meta thanaton, tha ta katalaveis OLA.

From: "Demetrius Kiminas" <[email protected]>
Gia sena mia pithanotita, gia mena mia vevaiotita.

----------------

From: George Schizas <[email protected]>
> Telikh apopsh (kai elpizw na mhn ksanaepanerthw)
> H yparksh tou Theou einai thema pisths. H logikh de xwraei.

Dimitris Kiminas
Vevaios. H yparksi toy Theoy den mporei na apodeixthei me
ti logiki. Omos kai to na pisteveis sto Theo DEN einai paralogo.

---------------

From: "Argyreas Thomas" <[email protected]>
> > Filakia stis makryes geneiades. Panta htan psarvtikes....

Dimitris Kiminas
> Giafto oi katholikoi tis...ksirisane?

----------------

From: "G.P. Kalogiannis" <[email protected]>

H erwthsh einai (pros olous, including Arximandritis):

Yparxei Zwh allou ektos apo Edw?

(gia osous mporei na amfivalloun gia thn yparxh zwhs edw, exoun kairo na 
bgoun apo to
spiti tous mallon)

to Erwthma (gia th Zwh to Sympan kai ta Panta) tha mporouse na ginei kai:

Poia einai h pithanothta, mesa sta disekatommyria twn pithanwn apanthsewn, 
na exei
dhmiourghthei MONO mia fora?

Egw pantws anarwtiemai: Yparxei Eyfyhs zwh? (symperilambanetai KAI h 
lista...) :-))


From: Dimitris Tsallas <[email protected]>
Kala plaka mas kaneis?
A.Dhladh esy pisteyeis oti o Kiminas den ua to gyrisei sto ueologiko tvra? 
(an
kai einai piuano ayth moy h ervthsh mporei na ton intrigkarei vste na _mhn_ 
to
gyrisei sto ueologiko ;)
B.Ayto einai ena uema poy den xvrane dogmatikes apoceis kai 
ampelofilosofies?

Asto thread na sbhsei mono toy, einai o monos tropos na teleivsei. Taktikes
parallaghs kai apoprosanatolismoy synhuvs den pianoyn.

----------------

From: "Argyreas Thomas" <[email protected]>
Filarako, o dikos mou theos gennhthike apo ton Anthrvpo, sthn kayth liakada
ths Manhs kai apolambanei to dynato meltemi ths Santorinhs, agnanteyontas
tis Kammenes, kathismenos se siderenio trapezaki.
Fysika agapaei to tabli, th koubenta peri pantos episthtou kai ton kafe se
xontro flytzanaki. Ervteyetai th lebentia kai misei th xamerpeia kai th
doloplokia pou xarakthrizei tous fragkofoniades ths kathe loghs eksousias
(ylikhs kai pneymatikhs).
Den askei kanenos eidous eksousia giati misei kathe aneleythero systhma kai
diaxeirizetai tis dikes tou ypotheseis, hpia kai anepaisthita, xvris na
epiballei lyseis me ton theiko tou tsambouka.
Fysika apexthanetai kathe loghs kanones pou epiballontai apo opoiodhpote
pefvtismeno, tou eaytou tou symperilambanomenou. Afhnei tous kanones na
diamorfvnontai apo ta systhmata (fysika h koinvnika) basei ths arxhs ths
spatalhs elaxistou ergou.
Ayta! Kai oudemia sxesh exei me ton Komo h opoiodhpote allo "afentiko" tou
kosmou toutou h allou

Pisteyeis loipon oti mporeis na mou allakseis gnvmh?

Nai kai se eyxaristv gia ena pragma: Me epaneferes sth lista :-)))))))))))

Tom
(44 kai oxi 55. Afou ta kalokairia ta petaksa sto gialo den metrane pia :-)

------------

Argyreas Thomas/Dimitris Kiminas
> Pisteyeis loipon oti mporeis na mou allakseis gnvmh?

Mmmm, mallon oxi :)

BTW, what's His name?

> Nai kai se eyxaristv gia ena pragma: Me epaneferes sth lista :-)))))))))))

An krino apo ton arithmo ton mails poy xreiastikan,
milame gia poly HEAVY LURKING :-)))))))

Dimitris

------------

From: Dendris Nikolaos <[email protected]>

Hi all!

De-lurking mode kai egw, giati to 0ema tou Androulaki me aggizei
ideologika.

Na ejhgh0w prwta: 0ewrw ton eauto mou xristiano. Kanw thn
autokritikh mou gia to an pisteuw, an eimai entajei se afto pou pisteuw, an
exw typseis h oxi gia to oti kanw sth zwh mou, an prepei na ejomologoumai,
kai ola ta alla. Den 0ewrw oti mporw na apanthsw se erwthseis toy styl
"yparxei 0eos?" 'h "einai aftos o Ihsous?", 'h akomh "phge o aggelos ton
krino sthn Maria?" kai opoiadhpote allh. Kai den dexomai kaneis na me krinei
gia oti pisteuw. Poly perissotero den apologoumai kai oute nomizw oti
prepei, gia oti mesa mou noiw0w.

Blepw loipon to biblio tou kou Androulaki na ginetai jafnika
epikentro ths dhmosiothtas. Ok. Giati omws? Giati kapoioi petajan auga,
ekanan, ebrisan, kate0esan mhnyseis, k.lp. Kai erwtw: Einai dynaton na
xarakthrisw aftous pou ekanan ta pragmata afta alliws apo ferefwna kai
fanatikous? Ti ekane o kos Androulakis? Egrapse ena biblio. Kai leei oti
leei. An kyrioi (kai kyries) den sas ekfrazei, mhn to agorazete. An
pisteuete oti sas 0igei, dhmosieuste ki eseis ena allo biblio. Kante kai mia
eirhnikh diamartyria ejw apo to bibliopwleio. Shkwste panw. Alla HREMA.
Xwris fwnes. Xwris fanatismenous se parojysmo na wryontai, na pa0ainoun
katalhpsies, xwris ieromonaxous na diarygnyoun ta imatia tous. Giati kyrioi
tote den eiste 0rhskoi 'h 0rhskeuomenoi, alla 0RHSKOLHPTOI... kserete, san
tous ieroejetastes tou mesaiwna, pou ekaigan ta biblia twn arxaiwn, san tous
isouites pou ekaigan ta biblia twn inkas, san ton papa pou molis twra
paradexthke pws o Galileos eixe dikio...

Kai mh mou pei kapoios oti sygrinw Galileo me Androulaki... to idio
iero einai to dikaiwma kai twn dyo na milhsoun. An den katanagasoun ton allo
na tous akousei, exoun olo to dikaiwma na poun oti 0eloun. Kai mia kai pou
to anaferame, omorfh h kinhsh ths ieras synodou na katadikasei to biblio...
0a mporouse na pei "diafwnoume, mhn to diabasete, 'h diabaste to me prosoxh
kai krinete..."! Poso pio omorfh protroph den 0a htan afth, de nomizete?
Alla oxi! Kai oi "pistoi" pou xampari den exoun parei gia to ti pisteuoun
kai ti leei o Xristianismos, fwnazoun, fanatizontai, kanoun, brizoun! Ma
afto einai to eukolo, na gineis zwon kai na ekstasiasteis kai na
paralhreis... to dyskolo einai na akous, na sygrateisai, na skeptesai!

Alla, kyrioi kai kyries pou fwnazete kai kanete, o Xristianismos
einai h 0rhskeia pou zhtaei to dyskolo, kai oxi to eukolo... Na gyriseis thn
allh pareia, oxi na pareis to fraggelio... ektos an eisai 0eos!

Kai akomh, oloi ekeinoi pou fwnazoun, kai kanoun, as exoun kai to
akolou0o sto myalo: Mh krinete ina mh kri0eite!

Kai pws ton elegan ekeinon pou ekaige ta biblia sto Berolino to
1936? Hitler? Kai telos... pws to elegan to rhto ekeino? Diafwnw me ta osa
les, alla 0a yposthrijw me th zwh mou to dikaiwma sou na ta les?

Afta. Aganakthsh kai ahdia noiw0w blepontas osa blepw ton teleutaio
kairo sthn thleorash peri tou 0ematos. Kai pei0omai oti o an0rwpos kai zwon
htan, kai zwo emeine kai 0a einai esaei!

Xairetw olous sas, kai... synexizw na akouw me prosoxh...

Nikos Dendris

---------------
From: "Petros Avlitis" <[email protected]>

To prvto bhma sthn anazhthsh toy Ueou:
http://www.baboulas.gr/
KAI DEN EINAI PLAKA!!!!!!

[Emm, to thryliko afto link doulevei akoma!]
[Dimitris]

---------------

From: Tom Tziros <[email protected]>
> Oi karagkiozhdes den leipoyn KAI apo thn Thessaloniki... Kai o 
> sygkekrimenos
> einai megalos Karagkiozhs.

Dimitris Kiminas:
'Karagiozides'? Exeis na peis tipota enantion toy theatroy skion? :)

From: Tom Tziros <[email protected]>
Exeis dikio, zhtv tapeina sygnvmh apo k. Spauarh

--------------

From: Dimitris Tsallas <[email protected]>
Kala re paidia, o Kiminas einai profanes (meta to deytero off-topic thread 
poy
jekinhse) oti paei gia ton timhtiko titlo toy troll. Eseis oi ypoloipoi pate
aplvs gia ton ypotimhtiko titlo toy afelh. Ti na prvtoskeftv? Ton Kritiko 
poy
eipe oti den ua dvsei synexeia sto thread gia na steilei telika akoma tria
mhnymata? Ton Dendrh poy mas eipe kapoia svsta pragmata, ta opoia omvs 
exoyme
hdh akoysei mexri telikhs ptvsevs apo radiofvna kai thleoraseis tis 
teleytaies
meres? Ton Andriopoylo poy synexise to thread isofarizontas se megeuos post 
ton
Dendrh legontas kapoia ejisoy svsta kai ejisoy asxeta pragmata? Toys 
ypoloipoys
poy ftasane na genikeysoyn to uema sthn filosofia tvn media sthn Ellada?

PS: ston news server news.ntua.gr ua breite ta group ntua.discuss kai
ntua.philosophy. Sas eggyvmai oti to epipedo tvn synomilhtvn einai poly 
ychlo
kai sas systhnv na kanete subscribe ekei an nivuete thn huikh anagkh na
ekfrasete thn aganakthsh sas gia to divgmo 'h tis prajeis toy kyrioy 
Androylakh.
PPS: Flames enantion moy parakalv mesv email.

--------------

Dimitris Tsallas/Dimitris Kiminas
> Kala re paidia, o Kiminas einai profanes (meta to deytero off-topic thread 
> poy
> jekinhse) oti paei gia ton timhtiko titlo toy troll.

WOW!!! Afto ki an einai titlos timis!!!!! :))))))

>Eseis oi ypoloipoi pate aplvs gia ton ypotimhtiko titlo toy afelh.

Omos toys ypoloipoys toys rixneis ;)

P.S. Se parakalo sto mellon oi kravges apognosis soy stoys headers na einai
pio kosmies. Me ksekoyfanes...optika.

-----------

Demetrius Kiminas/Dimitris Tsallas

> WOW!!! Afto ki an einai titlos timis!!!!! :))))))

Oso ki an soy fainetai periergo einai merikoi poy ton epizhtoyn. Elpizv h
mellontikh soy synperifora sth lista na diaceysei thn entypvsh poy exv
apokomisei oti ki esy eisai enas apo aytoys.

> Omos toys ypoloipoys toys rixneis ;)

Oi ypoloipoi den prospauoyn toso sklhra oso esy gia na ton apokthsoyn ;)

> P.S. Se parakalo sto mellon oi kravges apognosis soy stoys headers na 
> einai
> pio kosmies. Me ksekoyfanes...optika.

Otan epikratei baboyra se mia syzhthsh o monos tropos na trabhjeis thn 
prosoxh
(vste sth synexeia na peis me hremia ayta poy ueleis) einai na fvnajeis. H
epilogh tvn caps htan kauola syneidhth.

=================================================

Aaa! Ma ti ginetai? Ayto den einai to thread pou me petaksane ekso apo ti 
lista!

Aisxos! Epifylasomai na staxyologiso kai to en logo thread mellontikos (an
yparksei ekdilosi endiaferontos), gia na thymountai oi palaioi kai na 
mathenoun
oi neoi!

[Emm, osoi diavasate ola ta parapano, xara sto kouragio sas!]

Dimitris


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Schizas" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:09 PM
Subject: [SFGR] SFGR no more?


> Για κάποιους άσχΡτους Ξ»ΟŒΞ³ΞΏΟ…Ο‚, έβλΡπα SFGR archives (ΟŒΟ‡ΞΉ δΡν Ρίναι σΡιρά,
> ούτΡ Ξ΅Ο€Ξ΅ΞΉΟƒΟŒΞ΄ΞΉΞΏ των Heroes!) ΞΊΞ±ΞΉ παρατηρούσα την πτωτικΠπορΡία των 
> μηνυμάτων
> στη λίστα. Νομί΢ω ΟŒΟ„ΞΉ Ξ±Ο…Ο„ΟŒΟ‚ ΞΏ Απρίλιος Ρίναι Ξ±ΟΞ½Ξ·Ο„ΞΉΞΊΟŒ ρΡκόρ σΡ μηνύματα:
> ΞΌΟŒΞ»ΞΉΟ‚ 7, ΟŒΟ„Ξ±Ξ½ το high score Ξταν τον ΦΡβρουάριο του 2002 στα 552 μηνύματα!
> Ξ ΟΞΏΟ†Ξ±Ξ½ΟŽΟ‚ Ξταν Ξ· πΡρίοδος Conscience vs Intelligence Ξ Ξ±Ξ»Ξ»ΞΉΟŽΟ‚ Σχί΢ας 
> Ρναντίον
> Κιμινά :) (btw, μΡτά Ξ±Ο€ΟŒ Ο„ΟŒΟƒΞ± Ο‡ΟΟŒΞ½ΞΉΞ± κατάλαβα που έγκΡιτο Ξ· διαφωνία - Ργώ
> μίλαγα Ξ³ΞΉΞ± ΟƒΟ…Ξ½Ξ΅ΞΉΞ΄Ξ·Ο„ΟŒΟ„Ξ·Ο„Ξ± as in consciousness Ρνώ ΞΏ ΔημΞτρης Ξ³ΞΉΞ± συνΡίδηση 
> as
> in conscience)
>
> ΒρΞΞΊΞ± κάτι τρΡλά ψΞγματα "σοφίας" ΟŒΟ€Ο‰Ο‚ το παρακάτω:
>
> "o kathreftis DEN deixnei ta aristera san deksia kai
> toumpalin. Einai leitourgia tou anthrwpinou egkefalou na ermineusei to
> fainomeno tis antanaklasis skeftomenos "An hmoun to eidwlo mou, pio tha 
> itan
> to aristera gia emena?". Antrwpomorfismos tou eidwlou einai."
> (του Ο…Ο€ΞΏΟ†Ξ±ΞΉΞ½ΟŒΞΌΞ΅Ξ½ΞΏΟ…, Ιανουάριος 2003)
>
> ΀ο αναφέρω γιατί ΞΌΞ΅ προβλημάτι΢Ρ Ξ±ΞΊΟΞΉΞ²ΟŽΟ‚ Ξ±Ο…Ο„ΟŒ το ΞΈΞ­ΞΌΞ± Ο€ΟΟŒΟƒΟ†Ξ±Ο„Ξ±. Και Ξ½Ξ±! Ξ—
> απάντηση δόθηκΡ Ξ±Ο€ΟŒ Ξ­Ξ½Ξ± χρονικά μακρινό Ξ΅Ξ±Ο…Ο„ΟŒ ΞΌΞΏΟ… (μόνο που Ρίναι Ξ±Ο€ΟŒ το
> Ο€Ξ±ΟΞ΅Ξ»ΞΈΟŒΞ½, ΟŒΟ‡ΞΉ Ξ±Ο€ΟŒ το μέλλον ΟŒΟ€Ο‰Ο‚ Ρίθισται)!
>
> ΞšΞ¬Ο€ΞΏΟ„Ξ΅ Ο…Ο€ΞρχΡ ΞΊΞΉ Ξ­Ξ½Ξ± www.scifi.gr το οποίο Ξ±Ο€' ΟŒΟ„ΞΉ βλέπω μάλλον έσβησΡ...
>
> ΔΡν ξέρω, ίσως πρέπΡι Ξ½Ξ± ξΡκινΞσουμΡ κάποιο καινούριο flame war, έτσι Ξ³ΞΉΞ± 
> Ξ½Ξ±
> Ξ±Ξ½Ξ¬ΟˆΞΏΟ…Ξ½ λίγο τα αίματα :) Δέχομαι προτάσΡις :)
>
> -- 
> Ξ“ΞΉΟŽΟΞ³ΞΏΟ‚ Σχί΢ας
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Άφησέ ΞΌΞ΅ μόνο ΞΌΞΏΟ…, Ρμένα ΞΊΞ±ΞΉ τον κλώνο ΞΌΞΏΟ…
>   Leave me alone, just me and my clone
>



 
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