Re: VASE

Just an additional observation regarding Ken's quest for information, if I
may.

Yes, that the search is frustrating is easily understandable .   Where the
actual vase now is -- and has been for the last century and a half -- is
something we might well never know .

Ken wrote that "In my notes I say it is probably lost but of course have
lost (ironically) the source for that belief."   I don't of course know
what Ken's source was, but it seems to me not unlikely or surprising that
this vase should indeed have gone lost, or at least that, if it still
exists, its location may not be known .

In fact, such may even have been the case already in the time of Keller's
publication (1909), and even in or shortly after that of Roulez's (1845) .
  For the highly interesting and  rather complex details of the dispersion
of the vases in the Canino collection, see especially Vinnie Nørskov, "The
Affairs of Lucien Bonaparte and the Impact on the Study of Greek Vases" in
_The world of Greek vases_ (_Analecta Romana Instituti Danici,
supplementum_ ; 41), ed.  Vinnie Nørskov, Lise Hannestad, Cornelia
Isler-Kerényi, Sian Lewis  (Roma : Quasar, 2009), p.63-76 -- especially the
section "The destiny of the vases" on p.67-75 .   ( This is available
online at
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.academia.edu%2F5317704%2FThe_Affairs_of_Lucien_Bonaparte_and_the_Impact_on_the_Study_of_Greek_Vases&data=02%7C01%7CCLASSICS-L%40lsv.uky.edu%7C5266d9e528944eeff6e108d75bfa53d3%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C0%7C637079003022163534&sdata=IboT9CrlpGDci17jflWKGqIAl1BH3EqUlNJVOcY6cX0%3D&reserved=0
) .

Note also the succinct way in which both Roulez and, especially, Keller
referenced the vase .   And by the way, their respective publications are
also in fact accessible online :   the former in the form of a extract  (
without the illustration, which we have anyway from Keller )  from the 1845
_Bulletins de l'Académie Royale de Bruxelles_,  at
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.be%2Fbooks%3Fvid%3DGENT900000133955%26printsec%3Dfrontcover%23v%3Donepage%26q%26f%3Dfalse&data=02%7C01%7CCLASSICS-L%40lsv.uky.edu%7C5266d9e528944eeff6e108d75bfa53d3%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C0%7C637079003022163534&sdata=mKiikgaJonRCcRJ4BU0p8Jur%2F8B3pCtTxWxy8VglcBw%3D&reserved=0
;  the latter via https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedoc.hu-berlin.de%2Fhandle%2F18452%2F655&data=02%7C01%7CCLASSICS-L%40lsv.uky.edu%7C5266d9e528944eeff6e108d75bfa53d3%7C2b30530b69b64457b818481cb53d42ae%7C0%7C0%7C637079003022163534&sdata=O%2BIod4%2Fra9dklZObWJgFo9eHeJKcOMxFDzoYroL%2BF54%3D&reserved=0 .

It's kind of a pity the vase may no longer be around ;  Keller calls the
painting "niedlich", and Roulez writes that "La peinture . . . a une double
importance", being  ( at least to his knowledge )  even unique, both in its
"genre" and in its representation of  "une particularité de la vie privée
des anciens".

Another possible indication that the vase has  ( already long ago? )  been
lost, or at least has disappeared, is that there are no pertinent explicit
citations, at least which I have been able to find, of Roulez's article,
which was after all devoted specifically to this vase painting, in the
scholarly literature in the almost 175 years since.

Maybe old auction records, or some other archival material, if such still
exist, could point to where the vase went after leaving Bonaparte's
possession .    Nørskov's article would be a good starting point for
further investigation into this possibility .


- Laval Hunsucker
  Breukelen, Nederland



On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 12:38 AM Laval Hunsucker <[email protected]>
wrote:

A good bit of that collection went to Leiden, as I recollect .   I'll have
> another look, out of curiosity, next time I'm at the antiquities museum
> (RMO) there .
>
> - Laval Hunsucker
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 10:46 PM Kenneth Kitchell <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>


> Thanks to all who responded but I don't think I was clear enough.  Sorry
>> for that.
>>
>> I did do an image search and I had found all the other examples on
>> Pinterest.  But if you look carefully they all trace back to the Keller
>> illustration and thus to "Roulez" and the Canino collection.
>>
>> But that is a dead end.  The Canino collection was apparently broken up
>> and sold off to various museums.  That at least is what I deduce from a
>> Beazley search.
>>
>> What I'm trying to find is where the vase is now.  The actual vase.
>>
>> Frustrating!
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenneth Kitchell
>> Prof. Emeritus, LSU and UMass Amherst
>>
>