"education in freedom" or "education for peace" ?
"David Rovner" <[email protected]> Tue, 27 Jul 2004 02:05:08 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.education.israel.democraticschools |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <031c01c4736d$6109d3c0$0500000a@COMPUTER2> |
Hi Jeff, There is no "education for peace". There is just "education in freedom", that brings peace -- I believe !! ~ David take a look -- even if it's in Spanish: "educacion en libertad: Summerhill", http://groups.msn.com/educacionenlibertadSUMMERHILL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Sapir" <jeffs_il-/[email protected]> To: <democratic-schools-israel-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:36 AM Subject: RE: [democratic-schools-israel] Digest Number 283 > Hi Yishay, David, > > Sounds like a very good form of defense, > I was thinking of something like "defense is a much wider concept than > bullets or violence, it actually starts with education for peace, the best > defense for two sides in any conflict. Violent defense is at best very short > lived. Relief if it comes, may last for days or weeks, education's effects > can be measured in lifetimes. We (all sides) are at the moment educating for > war." > > I like yours better, more poetic and certainly more thought provoking... > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: democratic-schools-israel-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org > [mailto:democratic-schools-israel-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org] > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 7:35 PM > To: democratic-schools-israel-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org > Subject: [democratic-schools-israel] Digest Number 283 > > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: Labi Siffre - "Something Inside So Strong" > From: Yishay Mor <y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]> > 2. Re: Labi Siffre - "Something Inside So Strong" > From: "David Rovner" <[email protected]> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:37:38 +0100 > From: Yishay Mor <y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Labi Siffre - "Something Inside So Strong" > > David, > > Thanks. I'm always happy to be called romantic and idealistic. You seam > to assign a very particular reading to this song. While I won't deny I > can identify with that reading, it was not part of my message. I > presented this song as it was written, and as it was sung by the > children in my son's class. Labi Siffre is a black, gay songwriter. Many > of his songs referred to the situation in south Africa in the days of > apartheid. The barriers in this song are metaphorical. > > This song, as I understand it, is all about freedom. As I said in my > original mail "I find them so very relevant to our part of the world, > but perhaps that's because they are relevant to any part of the world." > > As for coercing children to do things, the repertoire of the show was > chosen by teachers and children together. The children had heard this > song in a concert, and found it relevant to their experience in school, > to the values and strength they got there. > > One last thing, I have quite a few answers to your question "how should > we defend ourselves?", but I'll just say this - first tell yourself what > it is you're defending, the rest will follow. > > all the best, > > Yishay > > > David Rovner wrote: > > > > > Very romantic and very idealistic, Yishai, but how do suggest we > > should defend ourselves ? > > > > Besides that I'm against coercing children to do things adults want > > them to do -- not in London, not in Jerusalem, and not in Bethlehem . > > . . etc. > > > > We must teach freedom in freedom -- not indoctrination . . . then > > we will have peace !! > > > > For a better world !! > > ~ David Rovner > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Yishay Mor <mailto:y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]> > > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > ; democratic-schools-israel > > <mailto:democratic-schools-israel-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org> > > *Sent:* Sunday, July 25, 2004 1:36 AM > > *Subject:* [democratic-schools-israel] Labi Siffre - "Something > > Inside So Strong" > > > > For the last two years we have been living in London. My son (age > > 8) has > > had the fortune to attend a wonderful school here. Not a democratic > > school, nor any other "special" school. Just a regular state > > school in > > the London Borough of Camden, led be very special people. > > > > Last week was his last at this school. At their leavers assembly, the > > children sang "Something Inside So Strong" by Labi Siffre. I was so > > moved by these words, that I decided to share them with you. I > > find them > > so very relevant to our part of the world, but perhaps that's because > > they are relevant to any part of the world. > > > > I wish for the day I'll hear these words sung by school children in > > Arabic and Hebrew. > > > > http://www.so-strong.com/archives/music/lyrics/05_so_strong.htm > > > > Yishay Mor > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > ***Something Inside So Strong* > > (From the CD - "So Strong <../../amazon/labisiffre-isZ3ANSNRje7cbEvJA/[email protected]>") > > > > The higher you build your barriers > > The taller I become > > The further you take my rights away > > The faster I will run > > You can deny me > > You can decide to turn your face away > > No matter 'cause there's > > > > Something inside so strong > > I know that I can make it > > Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong > > You thought that my pride was gone... oh no > > There's something inside so strong > > Something inside so strong > > > > The more you refuse to hear my voice > > The louder I will sing > > You hide behind walls of Jericho > > Your lies will come tumbling > > Deny my place in time > > You squander wealth that's mine > > My light will shine so brightly it will blind you > > Because there's > > > > Something inside so strong > > I know that I can make it > > Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong > > You thought that my pride was gone... oh no > > There's something inside so strong > > Something inside so strong > > > > Brothers and sisters > > When they insist we're just not good enough > > Well, we know better > > Just look 'em in the eyes and say > > We're gonna do it anyway > > We're gonna do it anyway > > because there's > > > > Something inside so strong > > I know that I can make it > > Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong > > You thought that my pride was gone... oh no > > There's something inside so strong > > Something inside so strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <../../links.htm> > > > > > > > > > > > > <00_index.htm> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <../../prose/alien/09_astigmatism.htm#jesuswasajew> > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > | Research Officer, www.WebLabs.eu.com | > | y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected] +44-20-77632160 fax 2138| > | Yahoo, Jabber, AIM: yishaym(@jabber.org)| > | 23-29 Emerald Street, London WC1N 3QS | > |_________________________________________| > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:09:17 +0200 > From: "David Rovner" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Labi Siffre - "Something Inside So Strong" > > > Hi Yishai, > I hope you are enjoying your studies and your stay in London --- besahna > habaa beirushalaim ;-) . > > I'm sure you'll agree with me that when you post some writing -- and you > don't care to give your own interpretation -- any interpretation besides > yours may be legitimate -- specially when it says "the walls of Jericho" or > "You squander wealth that's mine", for instance. So this is the case. If you > want to avoid misunderstandings, you'd better be crystal clear. The barriers > in the song maybe metaphorical -- but they may also be real !! > > Regarding children at this "just regular state school" you are referring, do > they also choose what they learn there ? > You may wish for the day you'll hear those words sung by school children in > Arabic and Hebrew -- and any othe language -- but it might happen they won't > be willing to do so !! > > I'd rather say: I wish for the day I see children doing what their inner > self tells them to do. > So, as americans say, "if you want something done -- do it yourself". Don't > ask somebody else to do it, and don't coerce somebody else either !! > > And one last thing, I'm just defending my life -- that is all, and I happen > to live in Israel. Not that the government represents me so much. I was not > born in Israel, so I am also paying for the mistakes done by "our" beloved > leaders -- before me arriving here. > > all the best, > ~ David > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yishay Mor" <y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]> > To: <democratic-schools-israel-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [democratic-schools-israel] Labi Siffre - "Something Inside So > Strong" > > > > David, > > > > Thanks. I'm always happy to be called romantic and idealistic. You seam > > to assign a very particular reading to this song. While I won't deny I > > can identify with that reading, it was not part of my message. I > > presented this song as it was written, and as it was sung by the > > children in my son's class. Labi Siffre is a black, gay songwriter. Many > > of his songs referred to the situation in south Africa in the days of > > apartheid. The barriers in this song are metaphorical. > > > > This song, as I understand it, is all about freedom. As I said in my > > original mail "I find them so very relevant to our part of the world, > > but perhaps that's because they are relevant to any part of the world." > > > > As for coercing children to do things, the repertoire of the show was > > chosen by teachers and children together. The children had heard this > > song in a concert, and found it relevant to their experience in school, > > to the values and strength they got there. > > > > One last thing, I have quite a few answers to your question "how should > > we defend ourselves?", but I'll just say this - first tell yourself what > > it is you're defending, the rest will follow. > > > > all the best, > > > > Yishay > > > > > > David Rovner wrote: > > > > > > > > Very romantic and very idealistic, Yishai, but how do suggest we > > > should defend ourselves ? > > > > > > Besides that I'm against coercing children to do things adults want > > > them to do -- not in London, not in Jerusalem, and not in Bethlehem . > > > . . etc. > > > > > > We must teach freedom in freedom -- not indoctrination . . . then > > > we will have peace !! > > > > > > For a better world !! > > > ~ David Rovner > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > *From:* Yishay Mor <mailto:y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected]> > > > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > ; democratic-schools-israel > > > <mailto:democratic-schools-israel-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org> > > > *Sent:* Sunday, July 25, 2004 1:36 AM > > > *Subject:* [democratic-schools-israel] Labi Siffre - "Something > > > Inside So Strong" > > > > > > For the last two years we have been living in London. My son (age > > > 8) has > > > had the fortune to attend a wonderful school here. Not a democratic > > > school, nor any other "special" school. Just a regular state > > > school in > > > the London Borough of Camden, led be very special people. > > > > > > Last week was his last at this school. At their leavers assembly, > the > > > children sang "Something Inside So Strong" by Labi Siffre. I was so > > > moved by these words, that I decided to share them with you. I > > > find them > > > so very relevant to our part of the world, but perhaps that's > because > > > they are relevant to any part of the world. > > > > > > I wish for the day I'll hear these words sung by school children in > > > Arabic and Hebrew. > > > > > > http://www.so-strong.com/archives/music/lyrics/05_so_strong.htm > > > > > > Yishay Mor > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***Something Inside So Strong* > > > (From the CD - "So Strong <../../amazon/labisiffre-isZ3ANSNRje7cbEvJA/[email protected]>") > > > > > > The higher you build your barriers > > > The taller I become > > > The further you take my rights away > > > The faster I will run > > > You can deny me > > > You can decide to turn your face away > > > No matter 'cause there's > > > > > > Something inside so strong > > > I know that I can make it > > > Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong > > > You thought that my pride was gone... oh no > > > There's something inside so strong > > > Something inside so strong > > > > > > The more you refuse to hear my voice > > > The louder I will sing > > > You hide behind walls of Jericho > > > Your lies will come tumbling > > > Deny my place in time > > > You squander wealth that's mine > > > My light will shine so brightly it will blind you > > > Because there's > > > > > > Something inside so strong > > > I know that I can make it > > > Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong > > > You thought that my pride was gone... oh no > > > There's something inside so strong > > > Something inside so strong > > > > > > Brothers and sisters > > > When they insist we're just not good enough > > > Well, we know better > > > Just look 'em in the eyes and say > > > We're gonna do it anyway > > > We're gonna do it anyway > > > because there's > > > > > > Something inside so strong > > > I know that I can make it > > > Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong > > > You thought that my pride was gone... oh no > > > There's something inside so strong > > > Something inside so strong > > > > > > > > > <../../links.htm> > > > > > > > > > <00_index.htm> > > > > > > > > > <../../prose/alien/09_astigmatism.htm#jesuswasajew> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > | Research Officer, www.WebLabs.eu.com | > > | y.mor-xaKI+XbQf9Vaa/[email protected] +44-20-77632160 fax 2138| > > | Yahoo, Jabber, AIM: yishaym(@jabber.org)| > > | 23-29 Emerald Street, London WC1N 3QS | > > |_________________________________________| > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/5bOolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/democratic-schools-israel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: democratic-schools-israel-unsubscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/