Re: Control-key binding while typing (for example) Hebrew

Larry Denenberg <[email protected]> [2010-06-26 09:22 -0400]:

>
>Eli Zaretskii <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I'm saying that Emacs doesn't know the number of the key (5 in your
>>example) that produces t.  All it knows is that the character t was
>>sent by the keyboard.  Which key number produced it is never
>>considered.
>>
>>Now, if you are saying that the key marked with ALEF on the Dvorak
>>keyboard is not the same key that is marked with t, then I understand
>>why it doesn't work for you.  Is this what you are saying?
>
>A very confusing discussion.  I can't resist adding to the confusion by
>explaining Amit's problem in a different way (I entirely agree with his
>analysis) and also bringing up a different approach to the problem.

[...]

>So, to Eli:  Yes, that's what he's saying.  If you have a keyboard where
>the keys are marked with both the standard Hebrew layout and the Dvorak
>layout, the key marked "t" is NOT also marked "alef".

Thanks Larry. What you described is exactly what I meant. The point is
that the input method makes an implicit assumption about the layout
of the keyboard. If one uses a different layout, it breaks the
assumption and hence the input method.

>Now we get to the point where I don't fully understand Amit's problem.
>Let me start by explaining my own situation and proposed solution.

I think you do understand me... Like you describe bellow, there are 2
ways to type Hebrew (X on Linux seems to be similar to the way your
Mac works):

1. Switch X (or Mac) to Hebrew, and don't use an input method in
Emacs. That way the key bindings won't work.

2. Don't switch the language of X (or Mac), and use an input method in
Emacs. That way you'll have to have an input method which is suitable
to your keyboard layout. Currently there is no input method for users
who are using an English Dvorak layout as their main layout.

[...]

>Now back to Amit:  Are you switching your whole computer to Dvorak at
>the X level?

Yes.

>In that case I would have thought that the Emacs Hebrew
>input method is totally broken, not just for control keys.

Yes, this is what I'm saying (the subject of this post is bad,
initially I thought the problem is only with control keys but I
corrected it later). And by the way, as you described above, this
means that any Emacs input method will probably not work with a DVORAK
keyboard because of the implicit assumption about the layout.

>Or are you
>switching the whole machine to Hebrew?  In that case I think you might
>be better off with a solution via permanent key bindings rather than a
>new input method, for reasons explained above.

This solution seems to me too complicated - you have so many key
bindings, it is not practical to create a parallel new set for your
language. Not to say that you'll have to add or modify this mapping
constantly as new bindings are added or changed. For this reason I
think a new input method is a better solution.