Re: OLOOT, asked first

On Friday, June 10, 2016, a.witzen <[email protected]> wrote:

> ThaT is the reason why everybody should leave their biddingcards on the
> table until the first lead is made.
> This should be in the biddingbox regulations....
> Reagards anton
>

Footnote to Law 20D:

When the calls are not spoken responders must ensure that it is clear to an
enquiring opponent what calls have been made.

On Friday, June 10, 2016, a.witzen <[email protected]> wrote:

> ThaT is the reason why everybody should leave their biddingcards on the
> table until the first lead is made.
> This should be in the biddingbox regulations....
> Reagards anton
>
>
> Verzonden vanaf Samsung-tablet.
> A.witzen, boniplein 86 amsterdam
>
>
> -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------
> Van: Richard Hills <[email protected]
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>>
> Datum: 10-06-2016 12:37 (GMT+01:00)
> Aan: Bridge Laws Mailing List <[email protected]
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>>
> Onderwerp: Re: [BLML] OLOOT, asked first
>
> Herman's hypothetical:
>
> .....Well, I can see a problem. Imagine my LH opponent, having just become
> presumed declarer, says to me "your lead". I know it's my partner's
> lead, but I say nothing, bang down the first card that comes to hand and
> wait for him to start putting down dummy, then call director and ask to
> be allowed to play double dummy. Seems a bit harsh on the innocent small
> mistake made by my opponent.....
>
> Richard Hills:
>
> The key issue is "I know it's my partner's lead".
>
> Law 72B1:
>
> "A player must not infringe a law intentionally, even if there is
> prescribed rectification he is willing to accept."
>
> Richard Hills:
>
> In this hypothetical scenario Hypothetical Herman is willing to accept the
> prescribed rectification of defending double-dummy. But that does not
> excuse Hypothetical Herman from his intentional OLOOT, a "must not"
> infraction of Law 72B1.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Richard Hills
>
> On Friday, June 10, 2016, Herman De Wael <[email protected]
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote:
>
>> Matthias Berghaus schreef:
>> > Am 10.06.2016 um 03:27 schrieb Robert Frick:
>> >> On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 21:14:14 -0400, David Grabiner <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Law 47E1:
>> >>>
>> >>> A lead out of turn (or play of a card) may be retracted without
>> further
>> >>> rectification if the player was mistakenly informed by an opponent
>> that it was
>> >>> his turn to lead or play. A lead or play may not be accepted by his
>> LHO in this
>> >>> circumstance.
>> >>>
>> >>> Therefore, assuming the wrong answer came from declarer or dummy,
>> declarer
>> >>> cannot accept this lead by spreading his hand. Declarer picks up his
>> hand, the
>> >>> correct defender leads, and the defenders can play double-dummy.
>> >> Declarer picks up his hand? That seems overly kind. Does a retracted
>> OLOOT end the auction period?
>> >
>> > Who cares? A specific law (here 47E1) overrides any general law. "A lead
>> > or play may not be accepted by his LHO in this circumstance". So
>> > presumed declarer remains declarer since he can`t become dummy. Overly
>> > kind? The defenders are going to defend double dummy. If this is kind...
>> > If you meant kind to the defenders, well, they are the non-offending
>> > side here, having been misinformed about the lead, so why should they
>> > have a problem?
>> >
>>
>> Well, I can see a problem. Imagine my LH opponent, having just become
>> presumed declarer, says to me "your lead". I know it's my partner's
>> lead, but I say nothing, bang down the first card that comes to hand and
>> wait for him to start putting down dummy, then call director and ask to
>> be allowed to play double dummy. Seems a bit harsh on the innocent small
>> mistake made by my opponent.
>> Herman.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blml mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml
>>
>>

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