Re: Claim

Thank you Brian, for supporting me, already half-way.
But consider the next argument:
You agree that it would be silly to cash the trump two.
And if the last trump is the Ace, it wouldn't matter.
So now consider the trump 8:
For a claimer who "knows" trumps are gone, it would be silly to cash a 
trump in order to catch a non-existent one.
And for a claimer who is doubtful as to whether trumps have all gone, it 
would be strange to assume that he does know the possible missing trump 
is lower than his eight. So playing his eight is again, silly.

I really believe that playing trumps when one "knows" they've all gone 
is not normal.

When you next direct a tournament for novices or lower players, do 
observe them and see what they do. Many refuse to claim and play on and 
on (or their opponents insist they do). They never play trumps until the 
end (at which point they reluctantly show their hand).

Herman.

brian wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 08:32:20 +0100, Herman wrote:
>
>> Exactly Richard, you can copy the law perfectly.
>> And how does that help us?
>> What is the doubtful point?
>> If we find that playing a small trump is a normal line, then the doubt
>> as to whether claimer will play that line is resolved against him, and
>> he loses an extra trick.
>> But if we find that this is not a normal line, then there is no doubt
>> that claimer will lose just the top trump.
>>
>> Now if you believe that since there is doubt as to whether it is a
>> normal line or not, we should resolve that doubt against claimer, then
>> you are, IMHO, going too far. Because it would just require any piece of
>> doubt as to rule each and every claim invalid and leading to just top
>> trump tricks.
>>
>> What we need here is a definition of hat normal lines are, and there is
>> nothing in the laws to help us there (well, nothing useful in this
>> discussion, anyway).
>>
>> I find that it is unhelpful to force a player to play a line he would
>> "never" play. This causes aggravation.
>> A claimer will readily accept that you have to assume he forgot a trump,
>> even when he maintains he hasn't. But a claimer will not accept that you
>> make him play a silly line.
>>
>> And playing the three of trumps hen holding high cards is a silly line IMO.
>>
>
> Since the 3 and 2 of trumps *MUST* lose to any outstanding trump if
> there is one, I think I can understand the response of Herman's
> hypothetical claimer here - it *IS* a silly line to cash the last
> small trump first. If the last trump was a possible high trump, it
> would be a different matter.
>
> Brian.
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