Re: Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31
Roger Pewick <[email protected]> Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:55:58 +0000
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--===============1570740096== Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CY4PR14MB13493D8907621AF3599AB88EB4190CY4PR14MB1349namp_" --_000_CY4PR14MB13493D8907621AF3599AB88EB4190CY4PR14MB1349namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable regret repost. I think I see part of where Volker is coming from. L25A contemplates correction of calls. The call he refers to is one that is not treated by 25A. Therefore, having= picked up bidding cards, the player is mistaken as to his presumption that= he was changing a call- due to the fact that his most recent action was a= t some one else's turn and thus subject to penalty prescribed** by a series= of laws beginning with 29. ** and possibly other law such as 27 Regards Roger pewick ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Gordon R= ainsford <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:01 AM To: [email protected] Cc: BLML Subject: Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31 Why would you want to pretend something was a call out of turn when it isn'= t? The terms of the original question told us that it was an intended chang= e of call. On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:27 AM Sven Pran <[email protected]<mailto:sven@sv= enpran.net>> wrote: Why not apply Law 31B1? West's changed bid of 3H is actually a call out of rotation at East's turn to call, this changed call stands and North is now in turn to call. North is free to bid 3S and East may then make any legal call. Law 16C2 now applies. (North do not have the option to refuse West's change of call!) -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <blml-bounces@rt= flb.org<mailto:[email protected]>> P=E5 vegne av Volker Walther Sendt: onsdag 12. september 2018 17.53 Til: blml <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Emne: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31 When does the right (25B1) to accept an intended change of call cease? The bidding W N E S 2NT P 3T(a) P (a) Puppet-Stayman 3NT* p(1) (*) Meant to show 5 hearts. Now West remembers that he has to bid 3H to show his hearts and replaces hi= s bid. North wants to accept this change; he is wants to bid 3S. If 3NT had been unintended, we are in law 25A, 3S is an allowed bid. p(1) is cancelled and becomes UI to E/W. Especially we have 25A1, telling us that a replacement is allowed as long partner did not bid, and we 25A6, telling us how to deal with p(1): it may be withdrawn. If 3H is meant to be an intended bid that should be given in the next round, we are in 31 (and 27). Again N is allowed to bid 3S, but this time p(1) is not cancelled and it is AI to E/W. But now we are somewhere between 25B1, 25B2 and 31. 31.C tells us, that a bid OOR shall be treated as a change of call, according to law 25 as long as LHO did not call. 25B1. is telling us, that a substition may be accepted; unfortunately it does not tell when this right is ceasing. Did North forfeit his right to accept a change of call, when he called p(1) over 3NT, throwing us do 25B2, or is acceptance according to 25B1 stil= l possible? -- Volker Walther <http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml> --_000_CY4PR14MB13493D8907621AF3599AB88EB4190CY4PR14MB1349namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi= n-bottom:0;} --></style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font= -family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr"> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";">regret repost.</span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";"><br> </span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";">I think I see part of where Volker = is coming from.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Ar= ial", sans-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";"></span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";"> </span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";">L25A contemplates correction of cal= ls. </span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";"> </span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";">The call he refers to is one that i= s not treated by 25A. Therefore, having picked up bidding cards, the = player is mistaken as to his presumption that he was changing a call- due to the fact that his most recent action was at some one = else's turn and thus subject to penalty prescribed** by a series of laws be= ginning with 29. </span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";"> </span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "Arial", san= s-serif, serif, "EmojiFont";">** and possibly other law such as 2= 7</span></p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">Regards</p> <p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">Roger pewick</p> <br> <p></p> <br> <br> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face= =3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> blml-bounces@rtflb.= org <[email protected]> on behalf of Gordon Rainsford <gordon= [email protected]><br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:01 AM<br> <b>To:</b> [email protected]<br> <b>Cc:</b> BLML<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31</font> <div> </div> </div> <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr">Why would you want to pretend something was a call out of = turn when it isn't? The terms of the original question told us that it was = an intended change of call.</div> <br> <div class=3D"x_gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:27 AM Sven Pran <<a href=3D"m= ailto:[email protected]" id=3D"LPlnk643365" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" previewre= moved=3D"true">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left= :1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex"> Why not apply Law 31B1?<br> West's changed bid of 3H is actually a call out of rotation at East's turn<= br> to call, this changed call stands and North is now in turn to call.<br> North is free to bid 3S and East may then make any legal call. <br> Law 16C2 now applies.<br> (North do not have the option to refuse West's change of call!) <br> <br> -----Opprinnelig melding-----<br> Fra: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" id=3D"LPln= k142647" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" previewremoved=3D"true"> [email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" ta= rget=3D"_blank" id=3D"LPlnk129807" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" previewremoved=3D"= true">[email protected]</a>> P=E5 vegne av Volker<br> Walther<br> Sendt: onsdag 12. september 2018 17.53<br> Til: blml <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" id=3D"LPl= nk805237" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" previewremoved=3D"true">[email protected]</a>&= gt;<br> Emne: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31<br> <br> When does the right (25B1) to accept an intended change of call cease?<br> <br> The bidding<br> <br> W N E S<br= > 2NT P 3T(a) P (a) = Puppet-Stayman<br> 3NT* p(1) (*) = Meant to show 5 hearts.<br> <br> Now West remembers that he has to bid 3H to show his hearts and replaces hi= s<br> bid. North wants to accept this change; he is wants to bid 3S.<br> <br> <br> If 3NT had been unintended, we are in law 25A, 3S is an allowed bid.<br> p(1) is cancelled and becomes UI to E/W.<br> Especially we have 25A1, telling us that a replacement is allowed as long<b= r> partner did not bid, and we 25A6, telling us how to deal with<br> p(1): it may be withdrawn.<br> <br> <br> If 3H is meant to be an intended bid that should be given in the next= <br> round, we are in 31 (and 27). Again N is allowed to bid 3S, but this = time<br> p(1) is not cancelled and it is AI to E/W.<br> <br> But now we are somewhere between 25B1, 25B2 and 31.<br> 31.C tells us, that a bid OOR shall be treated as a change of call,<br> according to law 25 as long as LHO did not call.<br> <br> 25B1. is telling us, that a substition may be accepted; unfortunately it<br= > does not tell when this right is ceasing.<br> Did North forfeit his right to accept a change of call, when he called<br> p(1) over 3NT, throwing us do 25B2, or is acceptance according to 25B1 stil= l<br> possible?<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> --<br> Volker Walther<br> <a href=3D"http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank" id=3D"LPlnk127638" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" previewremoved= =3D"true"></a><br> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_CY4PR14MB13493D8907621AF3599AB88EB4190CY4PR14MB1349namp_-- --===============1570740096== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list [email protected] http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml --===============1570740096==--