Re: Finding the best pose to re-enter animation graph from ragdoll
Ben Sunshine-Hill <[email protected]> Fri, 14 Dec 2012 10:35:20 +0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.devel.algorithms |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAGZipVGb5fqK1LRHaJdETfTeYu+dsES+V+FdAOc229DZEYYBRQ@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============5266722459247077233== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043be1c6cf730004d0cd977e --f46d043be1c6cf730004d0cd977e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ironically, that paper actually compares joint orientations instead of point clouds. For point cloud-based pose similarity estimation, Kovar's original motion graph paper is probably a good reference. http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/mographs.pdf Ben On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Michael De Ruyter < [email protected]> wrote: > Also with the triangle normal idea, a notion of distance is missing, > so you should add something like distance hips - hand, hips - foot, > foot - foot, etc to your comparison algorithm if u were to try this > method. > > Though since there is already a paper on the point cloud approach, > it's probably safer to start with it. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-12-13, at 12:47 PM, Richard Fine <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 12/13/2012 8:09 PM, Michael De Ruyter wrote: > > > >> - when comparing local quaternions for the joints, the comparison will > take into > >> account the twist around the limbs even though any amount of twist > doesn't > >> change the position of the limb. Therefore you could get drastic > differences > >> when visually there are barely any. > > > > True in the general case, but I'm using a hierarchical setup, so a twist > > in an upper arm can drastically change the position/orientation of a > > forearm and so on. It matters less and less as you approach the leaf > > nodes, but this is something I intended to eliminate with weighting. > > > >> - even if the joint orientation are different the position of the limbs, > >> especially their endings like hands of feet, could still be in very > close > >> positions, i.e. potentially closer than limbs with similar rotations > but with > >> their root joint (shoulder for instance) off by a bit. You mention > weighting > >> system, but that is going to be a pain to tune. > > > > Ah, yes, OK. I'd assumed that a pose with leaf-node discrepancies would > > be less visually different than one with trunk-node discrepancies, but > > that's not a sound assumption. > > > > This sounds like it would be a problem for *any* hierarchy-based > > approach, so anything based on comparing local-space positions is > > probably a non-starter. > > > >> An other approach would be to find a comparison algorithm that compares > the > >> overall position of the limbs. > >> > >> For instance you could consider; > >> - modeling triangles based of significant body joints, for instance > >> + hips, shoulder, hand > >> + hips, hand, foot > >> + hips, shoulder, shoulder > >> > >> Then use the normal of those triangles for your pose comparison. > >> > >> You would still need to make the normals relative to the hips and then > use a > >> hips orientation comparison process. > > > > Right OK. Sounds similar to the point cloud approach, maybe a little > > less prone to small discrepancies, as using the normal instead of the > > joint positions would equate similar triangles. > > > > Cheers! > > > > - Richard > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > > _______________________________________________ > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > > Archives: > > > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=gdalgorithms-list > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=gdalgorithms-list > --f46d043be1c6cf730004d0cd977e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ironically, that paper actually compares joint orientations instead of poin= t clouds. For point cloud-based pose similarity estimation, Kovar's ori= ginal motion graph paper is probably a good reference.<div><br></div><div> <a href=3D"http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/mographs.pdf">http://pages.cs.wi= sc.edu/~kovar/mographs.pdf</a><br><br>Ben</div><div><br></div><div><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Michael De Ruyter <span= dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_b= lank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Also with the triangle normal idea, a notion= of distance is missing,<br> so you should add something like distance hips - hand, hips - foot,<br> foot - foot, etc to your comparison algorithm if u were to try this<br> method.<br> <br> Though since there is already a paper on the point cloud approach,<br> it's probably safer to start with it.<br> <br> Sent from my iPhone<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> On 2012-12-13, at 12:47 PM, Richard Fine <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= et">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> <br> > On 12/13/2012 8:09 PM, Michael De Ruyter wrote:<br> ><br> >> - when comparing local quaternions for the joints, the comparison = will take into<br> >> account the twist around the limbs even though any amount of twist= doesn't<br> >> change the position of the limb. Therefore you could get drastic d= ifferences<br> >> when visually there are barely any.<br> ><br> > True in the general case, but I'm using a hierarchical setup, so a= twist<br> > in an upper arm can drastically change the position/orientation of a<b= r> > forearm and so on. It matters less and less as you approach the leaf<b= r> > nodes, but this is something I intended to eliminate with weighting.<b= r> ><br> >> - even if the joint orientation are different the position of the = limbs,<br> >> especially their endings like hands of feet, could still be in ver= y close<br> >> positions, i.e. potentially closer than limbs with similar rotatio= ns but with<br> >> their root joint (shoulder for instance) off by a bit. =A0You ment= ion weighting<br> >> system, but that is going to be a pain to tune.<br> ><br> > Ah, yes, OK. I'd assumed that a pose with leaf-node discrepancies = would<br> > be less visually different than one with trunk-node discrepancies, but= <br> > that's not a sound assumption.<br> ><br> > This sounds like it would be a problem for *any* hierarchy-based<br> > approach, so anything based on comparing local-space positions is<br> > probably a non-starter.<br> ><br> >> An other approach would be to find a comparison algorithm that com= pares the<br> >> overall position of the limbs.<br> >><br> >> For instance you could consider;<br> >> - modeling triangles based of significant body joints, for instanc= e<br> >> =A0 =A0 =A0+ hips, shoulder, hand<br> >> =A0 =A0 =A0+ hips, hand, foot<br> >> =A0 =A0 =A0+ hips, shoulder, shoulder<br> >><br> >> Then use the normal of those triangles for your pose comparison.<b= r> >><br> >> You would still need to make the normals relative to the hips and = then use a<br> >> hips orientation comparison process.<br> ><br> > Right OK. Sounds similar to the point cloud approach, maybe a little<b= r> > less prone to small discrepancies, as using the normal instead of the<= br> > joint positions would equate similar triangles.<br> ><br> > Cheers!<br> ><br> > - Richard<br> ><br> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------= --------<br> > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial<br= > > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support<br> > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add servic= es<br> > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers<br> > <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d</a><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">GDAlgorithm= [email protected]</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-l= ist" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgor= ithms-list</a><br> > Archives:<br> > <a href=3D"http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=3Dg= dalgorithms-list" target=3D"_blank">http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/foru= m.php?forum_name=3Dgdalgorithms-list</a><br> <br> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---<br> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial<br> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support<br> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services<br= > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers<br> <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p= .sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">GDAlgorithms-lis= [email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list" = target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms= -list</a><br> Archives:<br> <a href=3D"http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=3Dgdalgo= rithms-list" target=3D"_blank">http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php= ?forum_name=3Dgdalgorithms-list</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> --f46d043be1c6cf730004d0cd977e-- --===============5266722459247077233== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d --===============5266722459247077233== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ GDAlgorithms-list mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=gdalgorithms-list --===============5266722459247077233==--