Re: gesturing

Interesting post, and I certainly agree that the interface is elegant =
and nice for some platforms. But given my context is consoles, isn't the =
analog stick a perfect medium to use for a swing in golf on a PS2 or =
other console? IIRC, Tiger Woods Golf PS2 does this now albeit it a =
rubbery way.  It certainly is more intuitive and interactive and rewards =
players with control.  However on a PC I wouldn't want to slide a mouse =
back and then forward to swing; while more interactive and realistic =
that isn't a natural motion and a digital interface would work better.  =
I don't think I would even want to use a joystick (e.g. flightstick) =
either as that is awkward too.  But the thumbstick is perfect.

The point is that just because something works doesn't mean it's the =
best. Instead it means the interface has converged on a solution in its =
local problem space such that all similar solutions are inferior, when =
off in the distance is another space or paradigm with even higher peaked =
(or valleys is you perefer :) solutions.  Digital buttons beget analog =
gauges and it seems silly to use a digital button to do what could be =
directly controlled with tactile hand-eye coordination..

Brett

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Evan Robinson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; =
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [GD-Design] gesturing


> At 11:10 PM 2004.01.05, Brett Bibby wrote:
> >Tom, I like the idea you proposed about the bars because you got it =
back=20
> >to hand-eye coordination, but as you say FPS players may not like it. =

> >Perhaps it can be packaged in a different way. As Chris Crawford (it =
was=20
> >him wasn't it?) pointed out in his design book that the basic golf=20
> >interface hasn't changed in years, certainly there's something better =
that=20
> >can be done.
>=20
> There's a reason that golf interface hasn't change in years -- because =
it's=20
> good :-)  When we developed World Tour Golf for EA in ... 1985?, none =
of=20
> the three of us had any golf experience.  So we took lessons, and the =
basic=20
> mechanic was actually described by our golf pro at the course in=20
> Novato.  He pointed out that the basics of the golf swing are very =
simple:=20
> alignment (which determines the basic direction of club head travel at =
the=20
> moment of impact), backswing (and percentage of backswing relates to =
power=20
> -- to hit half a wedge you backswing less than your normal full =
swing),=20
> pause, downswing, turn the hands over (the timing of turning your =
hands=20
> over is critical to hitting a straight shot, slicing or hooking the =
ball),=20
> and follow through.  Paul Reiche parsed that into a pre-shot alignment =

> (deciding your initial direction of shot), a click to start the =
backswing,=20
> a click to end the backswing and start the downswing (and set power), =
and a=20
> click to represent turning the hands over.  Paul was the first =
designer=20
> that I know of to put this system onto a circular track that mirrored =
the=20
> actual clubhead travel.
>=20
> Is this interface "realistic"?  Not particularly, in that it does not =
give=20
> you nearly the level of control over the clubhead travel and therefore =
the=20
> shot that a golfer has in real life.  In particular, it completely =
ignores=20
> the factor of "in-to-out" or "out-to-in" clubhead travel (which allows =
a=20
> golfer to start the ball traveling either to the right or left of the=20
> alignment track, allowing for deliberate curving around obstacles).  =
Does=20
> it relate directly to the motion of a golfer?  Not really.  In =
particular,=20
> Paul chose to put the "hands turning over" click essentially at the =
point=20
> of impact (it actually starts considerably further back in the =
downswing)=20
> because it aligned nicely and gave better feedback to the user for a =
hook,=20
> slice, or straight hit.  Does it feel "realistic"?  Damn Skippy, it=20
> does.  If you provided a speed control that varied the clubhead travel =
(and=20
> thus the amount of time the player had to make decisions, effectively=20
> increasing player precision at low speed and decreasing it at high =
speed),=20
> you'd have a huge play balance variation, without changing the =
mechanic or=20
> the complexity of the system at all.
>=20
> If you compare Paul's design to that of previous golf games -- in=20
> particular Henry's design in ... was it Pebble Beach Championship =
Golf? A=20
> game produce with Brian Fargo, IIRC -- Henry's design was very =
"sim-like"=20
> in that it gave a huge degree of control through various keystrokes =
and=20
> settings, and used a model of Ben Hogan for animation, and it didn't =
feel=20
> nearly as much like swinging a golf club.  Activision's game (Links?) =
used=20
> a very similar system to Pauls, but it was modelled on a straight line =

> (like a progress bar) instead of the clubhead-travel circle.  IIRC, =
the=20
> original Nintendo golf game on the 8 bit console was similar.
>=20
> I'm not trying to say that Paul's design was or is perfect, but I am =
saying=20
> that it was at conception and remains an excellent design, and the =
fact=20
> that no one has come up with a better one (at least according to =
Brett's=20
> recollection of Chris Crawford's comment) suggests that there's more =
to it=20
> than just simplicity -- there's also elegance.  Which is hard to beat.
>=20
>          Evan
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
> Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills.  Sign up for =
IBM's
> Free Linux Tutorials.  Learn everything from the bash shell to sys =
admin.
> Click now! =
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1278&alloc_id=3D3371&op=3Dclick
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-design mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-design
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D556


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills.  Sign up for IBM's
Free Linux Tutorials.  Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin.
Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278&alloc_id=3371&op=click
_______________________________________________
Gamedevlists-design mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-design
Archives:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=556