RE: XML was RE: RE: A portable preferences library

Um, I think what you said and what I thought you said were two different
things... sorry about the misinterpretation.

Anyway, I personally find that the "non-sexy" aspects of programming are
simply the ones less hyped. I like to work on load times when it becomes
an issue because of the complexity of the problem and (usually) the
simplicity or at least robustness of the solution.

MSN

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Gareth Lewin
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: XML was RE: [GD-General] RE: A portable preferences library

Mat ? You say Im arrogant and then agree with what I just said ?

Or do you mean by saying that commercial games makers are better ?
Because
that isn't what I meant. I meant that when discussing technical matters,
it's not only about the 'fun' bits. That might work for hobbyists (I
know I
don't do boring stuff in my hobby time), but commercial developers don't
have that luxury.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mat Noguchi (BUNGIE) [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 16 December 2003 17:53
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: XML was RE: [GD-General] RE: A portable 
> preferences library
> 
> 
> That's a pretty arrogant way to look at this discussion. Small load
> times improve every aspect of a project, commercial or not. 
> It's faster
> to debug, faster to load, faster to play, and in general creates the
> impression of a much more efficient product.
> 
> MSN
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> Gareth Lewin
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 9:32 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: XML was RE: [GD-General] RE: A portable 
> preferences library
> 
> I'm sorry Brian, but that is besides the point. We were discussing how
> best
> to do something, and his argument wasn't just one of time, 
> but that his
> idea
> was better. 
> 
> But yeah, I guess we should concentrate on the fun and not discuss the
> right
> way to do stuff. Since like no-one on this list makes 
> commercial games.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: brian sharon [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: 16 December 2003 16:16
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: XML was RE: [GD-General] RE: A portable 
> > preferences library
> > 
> > 
> > Would you please give it a rest?  In case you haven't 
> noticed there's 
> > no "shop" involved for you to return his game to, as he's 
> giving his 
> > work away freely.  Jorrit is not doing this as a full-time job.  If 
> > load times are not his first priority I can hardly blame him, 
> > it's not 
> > exactly the "fun" part of the job.
> > 
> > Please visit http://crystal.sf.net to get clued in.
> > 
> > --brian
> > 
> > On Tuesday, December 16, 2003, at 07:59  AM, Gareth Lewin wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry, but you are just wrong.
> > >
> > >>> Lets not ignore the fact that loading bits of the level is
> > >> way easier with a
> > >>> binary specific format that can be dumped directly into data
> > >> structures.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> Yes but that's not portable. CS has to run on all kinds of 
> > operating
> > >> systems and cpu's. We can't
> > >> dump binary structures like that. The endianess wouldn't be
> > >> correct and
> > >> padding can differ
> > >> too.
> > >>
> > >
> > > There is no reason whatsoever for final proccessed data to be 
> > > portable. You
> > > have your data in xml. You preprocess it into binary format for a 
> > > specific
> > > build/platform. And you use that. Your load times go from 
> > 16seconds to 
> > > 2 or
> > > 3 seconds.
> > >
> > > And the amount of effort required to implement binary 
> saving off of
> > > structures isn't anywhere near comparable with the effort 
> > required to 
> > > tweak
> > > the speed of a graphics engine. Not to mention that 16-20 
> > second load 
> > > times
> > > would have me returning the game to the shop.
> > >
> > >
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