Re: Training an AlphaGo Zero-like algorithm with limited hardware on 7x7 boards

Igor Polyakov <[email protected]> Mon, 27 Jan 2020 00:22:32 +0800
Newsgroups gmane.games.devel.go
Message-ID <CAPMj7maMGUJtmPO-iK4OERJsS_N4MEMZfDgkXmCaZxT2ZKdMMw@mail.gmail.com>
--===============0115847383301116244==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cd5f5a059d0d6663"

--000000000000cd5f5a059d0d6663
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I trained using David Wu's code for a few months on 9x9 only and it's been
superhuman after a few months.

I'm not sure if anyone's interested, but I can release my network to the
world. It's around the strength of KataGo, but only on 9x9. I could do a
final test before releasing it into the wild

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 00:17 R=C3=A9mi Coulom <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yes, using komi would help a lot. Still, I feel that something else must
> be wrong, because winning 100% of the games as Black without komi should =
be
> very easy on 7x7.
>
> I have not written anything about what I did with Crazy Stone. But my
> experiments and ideas were really very similar to what David Wu did:
> https://blog.janestreet.com/accelerating-self-play-learning-in-go/
>
> To clarify what I wrote in my previous message: "strong from scratch in a
> single day" was for 7x7. I like testing new ideas with small networks on
> small boards, because training is very fast, and what works on small boar=
ds
> with small networks usually also works on large boards with big networks.
>
> R=C3=A9mi
>
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:30 AM cody2007 <[email protected]> wrote=
:
>
>> Hi R=C3=A9mi,
>>
>> Thanks for your comments! I am not using any komi and had not given much
>> thought to it. Although, I suppose by having black win most games, I'm
>> depriving the network of its only learning signal. I will have to try wi=
th
>> an appropriately set komi next...
>>
>> >When I started to develop the Zero version of Crazy Stone, I spend a lo=
t
>> of time optimizing my method on a single (V100) GPU
>> Any chance you've written about it somewhere? I'd be interested to learn
>> more but wasn't able to find anything on the Crazy Stone website.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Cody
>>
>> =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original=
 Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90
>> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:49 PM, R=C3=A9mi Coulom <remi.coulom@gma=
il.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your experiments.
>>
>> Your match results are strange. Did you use a komi? You should use a kom=
i
>> of 9:
>> https://senseis.xmp.net/?7x7
>>
>> The final strength of your network looks surprisingly weak. When I
>> started to develop the Zero version of Crazy Stone, I spend a lot of tim=
e
>> optimizing my method on a single (V100) GPU. I could train a strong netw=
ork
>> from scratch in a single day. Using a wrong komi might have hurt you. Al=
so,
>> on such a small board, it is not so easy to make sure that the self-play
>> games have enough variety. You'd have to find many balanced random initi=
al
>> positions in order to avoid replicating the same game again and again.
>>
>> R=C3=A9mi
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Computer-go mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>

--000000000000cd5f5a059d0d6663
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">I trained using David Wu&#39;s code for a few months on 9=
x9 only and it&#39;s been superhuman after a few months.<div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m not sure if anyone&#39;s interested, but=
 I can release my network to the world. It&#39;s around the strength of Kat=
aGo, but only on 9x9. I could do a final test before releasing it into the =
wild</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_attr">On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 00:17 R=C3=A9mi Coulom &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yes, usin=
g komi would help a lot. Still, I feel that something else must be wrong, b=
ecause winning 100% of the games as Black without komi should be very easy =
on 7x7.</div><div><br></div><div>I have not written anything about what I d=
id with Crazy Stone. But my experiments and ideas were really very similar =
to what David Wu did:</div><div><a href=3D"https://blog.janestreet.com/acce=
lerating-self-play-learning-in-go/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ht=
tps://blog.janestreet.com/accelerating-self-play-learning-in-go/</a></div><=
div><br></div><div>To clarify what I wrote in my previous message: &quot;st=
rong from scratch in a single day&quot; was for 7x7. I like testing new ide=
as with small networks on small boards, because training is very fast, and =
what works on small boards with small networks usually also works on large =
boards with big networks.</div><div><br></div><div>R=C3=A9mi<br></div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Su=
n, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:30 AM cody2007 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cody2007@protonm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>H=
i R=C3=A9mi,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for your comments! I am no=
t using any komi and had not given much thought to it. Although, I suppose =
by having black win most games, I&#39;m depriving the network of its only l=
earning signal. I will have to try with an appropriately set komi next...<b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>&gt;When I started to develop the Zero version =
of Crazy Stone, I spend a lot of time optimizing my method on a single (V10=
0) GPU<br></div><div>Any chance you&#39;ve written about it somewhere? I&#3=
9;d be interested to learn more but wasn&#39;t able to find anything on the=
 Crazy Stone website.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,<br></div><div>Co=
dy<br></div><div><br></div><div>=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=
=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=
=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90<br></div><div> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 5:=
49 PM, R=C3=A9mi Coulom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><div> <br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,<br></=
div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for sharing your experiments.<br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>Your match results are strange. Did you use a komi? You shou=
ld use a komi of 9:<br></div><div><a href=3D"https://senseis.xmp.net/?7x7" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://senseis.xmp.net/?7x7</a><br></=
div><div><br></div><div>The final strength of your network looks surprising=
ly weak. When I started to develop the Zero version of Crazy Stone, I spend=
 a lot of time optimizing my method on a single (V100) GPU. I could train a=
 strong network from scratch in a single day. Using a wrong komi might have=
 hurt you. Also, on such a small board, it is not so easy to make sure that=
 the self-play games have enough variety. You&#39;d have to find many balan=
ced random initial positions in order to avoid replicating the same game ag=
ain and again.<br></div><div><br></div><div>R=C3=A9mi<br></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div></blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Computer-go mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinf=
o/computer-go</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000cd5f5a059d0d6663--

--===============0115847383301116244==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Computer-go mailing list
[email protected]
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

--===============0115847383301116244==--