Re: Crazy Stone is playing on CGOS 9x9

--===============3965187106310058657==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000044eac205a529c659"

--00000000000044eac205a529c659
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm running a new account of KataGo that is set to bias towards aggressive
or difficult moves now (the same way it does in 19x19 handicap games), to
see what the effect is. Although, it seems like some people have stopped
running their bots.  Still maybe it will be interesting for the
remaining players, or any others who decide to re-turn-on their bot for a
little while. :)

It seems like some fraction of the time, it now opens on 5-5 as black,
which is judged as worse than 4-4 in an even game, but presumably is more
difficult to play. I suspect it will now start to lose a noticeable number
of games now due to overplaying, and there's a good chance it does much
worse overall. Even so, I'm curious what will happen, and what the draw
rate will be. Suddenly having some 5-5 openings should certainly add some
variety to the games.

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:41 PM David Wu <[email protected]> wrote:

> Having it matter which of the stones you capture there is fascinating.
> Thanks for the analysis - and thanks for "organizing" this 9x9 testing
> party. :)
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:06 PM R=C3=A9mi Coulom <[email protected]> =
wrote:
>
>> If White recaptures the Ko, then Black can play at White's 56, capture
>> the stone, and win by 2 points.
>>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:02 PM Shawn Ligocki <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for sharing the games, R=C3=A9mi!
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:27 AM R=C3=A9mi Coulom <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In this game, Crazy Stone won using a typical Monte Carlo trick:
>>>> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997390.sgf
>>>> On move 27, it sacrificed a stone. According to Crazy Stone, the game
>>>> would have been a draw had Aya just re-captured it. But Aya took the b=
ait
>>>> and captured the other stone. Crazy Stone's evaluation became instantl=
y
>>>> winning after this, the sacrificed stone serving as a threat for the
>>>> winning ko fight, 18 moves later.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wow, I did not imagine how that move would be useful later! But the ver=
y
>>> end is confusing to my human brain, couldn't White move 56 retake the k=
o
>>> and win it? It seems like Black only has one real ko threat left (J4
>>> maybe). But White also has one huge threat left (D3), so it seems like
>>> White should win this ko and then be about 4 ahead with komi. Am I
>>> missing something?
>>>
>>> -Shawn
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Computer-go mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Computer-go mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>>
>

--00000000000044eac205a529c659
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;m running a new account of KataGo that is set to bia=
s towards aggressive or difficult moves now (the same way it does in 19x19 =
handicap games),=C2=A0to see what the effect is. Although, it seems like so=
me people have stopped running their bots.=C2=A0

Still maybe it will be interesting for the remaining=C2=A0players, or any o=
thers who decide to re-turn-on their bot for a little while. :)<div><br></d=
iv><div>It seems like some fraction of the time, it now opens on 5-5 as bla=
ck, which is judged as worse than 4-4 in an even game, but presumably is mo=
re difficult to play. I suspect it will now start to lose a noticeable numb=
er of games now due to overplaying,=C2=A0and there&#39;s a good chance it d=
oes much worse overall. Even so, I&#39;m curious what will happen, and what=
 the draw rate will be. Suddenly having some 5-5 openings should certainly =
add some variety to the games.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:41 PM David W=
u &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div di=
r=3D"ltr">Having it matter which of the stones you capture there is fascina=
ting. Thanks for the analysis - and thanks for &quot;organizing&quot; this =
9x9 testing party. :)</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:06 PM R=C3=A9mi Coulom &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">remi.coulom@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">If White recaptures the Ko, then Black can play at Whi=
te&#39;s 56, capture the stone, and win by 2 points.<br></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 2020=
 at 5:02 PM Shawn Ligocki &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for =
sharing the games, R=C3=A9mi!</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:27 AM R=C3=A9mi Coulom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:r=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>In this game, Crazy Stone won using a ty=
pical Monte Carlo trick:<br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.yss-aya.com/cg=
os/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997390.sgf" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
ss-aya.com/cgos/viewer.cgi?9x9/SGF/2020/05/07/997390.sgf</a></div><div></di=
v><div>On move 27, it sacrificed a stone. According to Crazy Stone, the gam=
e would have been a draw had Aya just re-captured it. But Aya took the bait=
 and captured the other stone. Crazy Stone&#39;s evaluation became instantl=
y winning after this, the sacrificed stone serving as a threat for the winn=
ing ko fight, 18 moves later.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>W=
ow, I did not imagine how that move would be useful later! But the very end=
 is confusing to my human brain, couldn&#39;t White move 56 retake the ko a=
nd win it? It seems like Black only has one real ko threat left (J4 maybe).=
 But White also has one huge threat left (D3), so it seems like White shoul=
d win this ko and then be about 4 ahead with komi. Am I missing=C2=A0someth=
ing?</div><div><br></div><div>-Shawn</div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Computer-go mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">Computer-g=
[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-=
go</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Computer-go mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">Computer-g=
[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-=
go</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000044eac205a529c659--

--===============3965187106310058657==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Computer-go mailing list
[email protected]
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

--===============3965187106310058657==--