Re: CGOS source on github

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It's a relative ranking versus who you actually get to play against.

Sparsity of actual skill will lead to that kind of clumping.

The only way that a rating could meaningfully climb by playing gnugo or
your direct peers is going to happen exponentially slowly -- you'd need to
lose to gnugo twice less often (or win all the time over twice as many
games) to get more points. So although it would eventually increase, it
would flatten out pretty quickly.

Good point about mcmc. A more dramatic approach would be to remove gnugo
altogether.


On Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:41 AM R=C3=A9mi Coulom <[email protected]> wrot=
e:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks to you for taking care of CGOS.
>
> I have just connected CrazyStone-57-TiV. It is not identical, but should
> be similar to the old CrazyStone-18.04. CrazyStone-18.04 was the last
> version of my program that used tensorflow. CrazyStone-57 is the first
> neural network that did not use tensorflow, running with my current code.
> So it should be stronger than CrazyStone-18.04, and I expect it will get =
a
> much lower rating.
> A possible explanation for the rating drift may be that most of the old M=
C
> programs have disappeared. They won easily against GNU Go, and were easil=
y
> beaten by the CNN programs. The Elo statistical model is wrong when
> different kind of programs play against each other. When the CNN program
> had to get a rating by playing directly against GNU Go, they did not mana=
ge
> to climb as high as when they had the MC programs between them and GNU Go=
.
> I'll try to investigate this hypothesis more with the data.
>
> R=C3=A9mi
> _______________________________________________
> Computer-go mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">It&#39;s a relative ranking versus who you actually get t=
o play against.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Sparsity of ac=
tual skill will lead to that kind of clumping.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">The only way that a rating could meaningfully climb =
by playing gnugo or your direct peers is going to happen exponentially slow=
ly -- you&#39;d need to lose to gnugo twice less often (or win all the time=
 over twice as many games) to get more points. So although it would eventua=
lly increase, it would flatten out pretty quickly.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Good point about mcmc. A more dramatic approach =
would be to remove gnugo altogether.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mo=
n, Jan 18, 2021, 6:41 AM R=C3=A9mi Coulom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:remi.coulom=
@gmail.com">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks to =
you for taking care of CGOS.</div><div><br></div><div>I have just connected=
 CrazyStone-57-TiV. It is not identical, but should be similar to the old C=
razyStone-18.04. CrazyStone-18.04 was the last version of my program that u=
sed tensorflow. CrazyStone-57 is the first neural network that did not use =
tensorflow, running with my current code. So it should be stronger than Cra=
zyStone-18.04, and I expect it will get a much lower rating.<br></div><div>=
</div><div>A possible explanation for the rating drift may be that most of =
the old MC programs have disappeared. They won easily against GNU Go, and w=
ere easily beaten by the CNN programs. The Elo statistical model is wrong w=
hen different kind of programs play against each other. When the CNN progra=
m had to get a rating by playing directly against GNU Go, they did not mana=
ge to climb as high as when they had the MC programs between them and GNU G=
o. I&#39;ll try to investigate this hypothesis more with the data.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>R=C3=A9mi<br></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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eferrer">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinf=
o/computer-go</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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