Re: The entry competence level for graphics programmers

Tommy Brett <[email protected]> Tue, 20 Sep 2011 21:30:18 -0400
Newsgroups gmane.games.devel.sweng
Message-ID <CA+ejsGDAF-pqaLTvEwTV7wGBe+mYUrc_5Sz_ZF_-Lm6Ot=uQ6g@mail.gmail.com>
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And that sounded even more retarded, I meant to say, I hadn't looked when I
really should have. There's been loads of helpful info and suggestions,
thanks a lot folks!

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Tommy Brett <[email protected]> wrote:

> Funny thing is I know a few guys who work for a serious games company and
> it never even occurred to me that there might be more, how short sighted of
> me, thanks Craig!
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Craig Hoffman <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> This doesn't answer the original question but don't overlook "serious
>> game" development, immersive training development, simulation development,
>> etc. You don't need to work for a game developer to use game development
>> skills. Your current skill set might get you a position like these listed
>> below where you could gain invaluable experience.
>>
>>
>> http://jobs.saic.com/job/Huntsville-Flash-Game-Programmer-Job-AL-35801/1352496/
>>
>>
>> http://jobs.saic.com/job/Huntsville-Application-Developer-Job-AL-35801/1404471/
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Tommy Brett <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>> Doesn't seem blunt at all, I think I worded my first post wrong - A
>>> better question would have been "what separates junior from non-junior" as
>>> that's really the question I'm asking. I want to join the games industry,
>>> but I want to do so in a way that doesn't essentially reset my career if at
>>> all possible. In any case, good point!
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Bryan Wagstaff <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> This may seem a bit blunt, but I've been wondering about it sense the
>>>> start of the discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you want to do a job qualification survey like this? What are you
>>>> hoping to gain?
>>>>
>>>> Are you looking for permission to apply to a job? You have permission by
>>>> virtue of them advertising, so go for it! Are you worried that you will be
>>>> rejected? Apply anyway and let their HR people sort it out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you see a job listing and you have approximately the skills and
>>>> experience they ask for you should apply for the job. Don't agonize that you
>>>> don't know some obscure tidbit; if the cared about it they would have
>>>> included it in their requirements.
>>>>
>>>> The employer will look over the applications they recieve, reject those
>>>> that don't fit what they want, interview a few that remain, and then pick
>>>> the best fit. Employers are hiring someone to fill a specific need; they
>>>> only care that you can do the job and that you will fit in with the company.
>>>>
>>>> As a job applicant you should also be asking questions about if you can
>>>> do the job and will excel at the company.
>>>>
>>>> If your skills and background are the best fit then it really doesn't
>>>> matter if the word 'junior' or 'senior' is in the job title or not. The
>>>> details of the job description should indicate what they want. Either you
>>>> are a good fit or not.
>>>>
>>>> It should be fairly easy to make that decision when you know your
>>>> background and you read their ad. If you are uncertain then apply anyway.
>>>> What's the big deal about that? They might simply discard your application.
>>>> They might call you up, interview you, call you in for a second interview,
>>>> and then not hire you. Or they might decide that you are the best fit of the
>>>> applications they received and give you a great job. If you apply there is
>>>> still a very high statistical chance you won't get hired. If you apply and
>>>> you don't get a job there is no problem; you tried. If you don't apply then
>>>> failure is a certainty.
>>>>
>>>> Either you can do the job well, or you cannot do the job well. You won't
>>>> find out by asking the Internet at large. You find out by talking with the
>>>> employer and stating your qualifications and negotiating for the job.
>>>>
>>>> If you think you can do it, then apply for the job.
>>>>
>>>> -Bryan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tommy Brett &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello ladies and gents,
>>>>
>>>> I graduated 5 years ago with the intention of becoming a game developer,
>>>> my career got sidetracked and although this sidetrack led to an ultimately
>>>> comfortable existence and a lot of life lessons learned, I'm now at the
>>>> point where my career as a Flash / Flex developer is stagnating. It may also
>>>> be coming to a forced end as more and more of my employer's clients move
>>>> away from Flash each month. I've been keeping up with the times, and doing a
>>>> lot of graphics programming on the side using nVidia's CG shader programming
>>>> language and OpenGL.
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking for a little insight into what skill level you expect entry
>>>> level, and reasonably competent graphics programmers (i.e. qualifying as
>>>> something above 'junior' in their job title, even if that's just the
>>>> omission of the word) to be at, and the difference between the two. By skill
>>>> level, I mean knowledge base, for example implementing certain shader
>>>> routines (e.g. normal mapping) and grasp of mathematics. Before I enter the
>>>> job search proper, I want to make absolutely sure that my skills are in fact
>>>> up to par as I understand that graphics programming positions in particular
>>>> are highly competitive. For example, I know that one area I lack skill in is
>>>> using shader functions built for DirectX 10 and above - by virtue of me
>>>> still using an XP machine (GPU is DX10 capable though, reeeally need to
>>>> upgrade), and I suspect that not being knowledgeable about,
>>>> say, tessellation using the GPU would swiftly kill any application I would
>>>> make for a graphics programmer role that paid more than free lunches.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, this may not be the case, which is why I'm sending
>>>> this out to you better informed guys for a little feedback.
>>>>
>>>> - Tommy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>> [email protected]
>>
>> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>>
>>
>

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And that sounded even more retarded, I meant to say, I hadn&#39;t looked wh=
en I really should have. There&#39;s been loads of helpful info and suggest=
ions, thanks a lot folks!<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20,=
 2011 at 9:28 PM, Tommy Brett <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:elith=
[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Funny thing is I know a few guys who work f=
or a serious games company and it never even occurred to me that there migh=
t be more, how short sighted of me, thanks Craig!<div>

<div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep=
 20, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Craig Hoffman <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">This doesn&#39;t answer the original questio=
n but don&#39;t overlook &quot;serious game&quot; development, immersive tr=
aining development, simulation development, etc. You don&#39;t need to work=
 for a game developer to use game development skills. Your current skill se=
t might get you a position like these listed below where you could gain inv=
aluable experience. <br>



<br><a href=3D"http://jobs.saic.com/job/Huntsville-Flash-Game-Programmer-Jo=
b-AL-35801/1352496/" target=3D"_blank">http://jobs.saic.com/job/Huntsville-=
Flash-Game-Programmer-Job-AL-35801/1352496/</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://jo=
bs.saic.com/job/Huntsville-Application-Developer-Job-AL-35801/1404471/" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://jobs.saic.com/job/Huntsville-Application-Developer-Jo=
b-AL-35801/1404471/</a><div>


<div></div><div><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Tommy Brett=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex">



Doesn&#39;t seem blunt at all, I think I worded my first post wrong - A bet=
ter question would have been &quot;what separates junior from non-junior&qu=
ot; as that&#39;s really the question I&#39;m asking. I want to join the ga=
mes industry, but I want to do so in a way that doesn&#39;t essentially res=
et my career if at all possible. In any case, good point!<br>





<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Bryan Wagst=
aff <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">





This may seem a bit blunt, but I&#39;ve been wondering about it sense the s=
tart of the discussion.<br><br>Why do you want to do a job qualification su=
rvey like this?  What are you hoping to gain?<br><br>Are you looking for pe=
rmission to apply to a job?  You have permission by virtue of them advertis=
ing, so go for it!  Are you worried that you will be rejected?  Apply anywa=
y and let their HR people sort it out.  <br>





<br><br>If you see a job listing and you have approximately the skills and =
experience they ask for you should apply for the job.  Don&#39;t agonize th=
at you don&#39;t know some obscure tidbit; if the cared about it they would=
 have included it in their requirements.<br>





<br>The employer will look over the applications they recieve, reject those=
 that don&#39;t fit what they want, interview a few that remain, and then p=
ick the best fit.  Employers are hiring someone to fill a specific need; th=
ey only care that you can do the job and that you will fit in with the comp=
any.<br>





<br>As a job applicant you should also be asking questions about if you can=
 do the job and will excel at the company.<br><br>If your skills and backgr=
ound are the best fit then it really doesn&#39;t matter if the word &#39;ju=
nior&#39; or &#39;senior&#39; is in the job title or not.  The details of t=
he job description should indicate what they want.  Either you are a good f=
it or not.  <br>





<br>It should be fairly easy to make that decision when you know your backg=
round and you read their ad.  If you are uncertain then apply anyway.  What=
&#39;s the big deal about that?  They might simply discard your application=
.  They might call you up, interview you, call you in for a second intervie=
w, and then not hire you.  Or they might decide that you are the best fit o=
f the applications they received and give you a great job.  If you apply th=
ere is still a very high statistical chance you won&#39;t get hired.  If yo=
u apply and you don&#39;t get a job there is no problem; you tried. If you =
don&#39;t apply then failure is a certainty.<br>





<br>Either you can do the job well, or you cannot do the job well.  You won=
&#39;t find out by asking the Internet at large.  You find out by talking w=
ith the employer and stating your qualifications and negotiating for the jo=
b.<br>





<br>If you think you can do it, then apply for the job.<br><font color=3D"#=
888888"><br>-Bryan.</font><div><div></div><div><br><br><br>Tommy Brett &amp=
;<a href=3D"mailto:lt%[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">lt;elithiom=
[email protected]</a>&amp;gt; wrote:<br>





<br>Hello ladies and gents,<div><br></div><div>I graduated 5 years ago with=
 the intention of becoming a game developer, my career got sidetracked and =
although this sidetrack led to an ultimately comfortable existence and a lo=
t of life lessons learned, I&#39;m now at the point where my career as a Fl=
ash / Flex developer is stagnating. It may also be coming to a forced end a=
s more and more of my employer&#39;s clients move away from Flash each mont=
h. I&#39;ve been keeping up with the times, and doing a lot of graphics pro=
gramming on the side using nVidia&#39;s CG shader programming language and =
OpenGL.=A0</div>







<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m looking for a little insight into what skill le=
vel you expect entry level, and reasonably competent graphics programmers (=
i.e. qualifying as something above &#39;junior&#39; in their job title, eve=
n if that&#39;s just the omission of the word) to be at, and the difference=
 between the two. By skill level, I mean knowledge base, for example implem=
enting certain shader routines (e.g. normal mapping) and grasp of mathemati=
cs. Before I enter the job search proper, I want to make absolutely sure th=
at my skills are in fact up to par as I understand that graphics programmin=
g positions in particular are highly competitive. For example, I know that =
one area I lack skill in is using shader functions built for DirectX 10 and=
 above - by virtue of me still using an XP machine (GPU is DX10 capable tho=
ugh, reeeally need to upgrade), and I suspect that not being=A0knowledgeabl=
e=A0about, say,=A0tessellation=A0using the GPU would swiftly kill any appli=
cation I would make for a graphics programmer role that paid more than free=
 lunches.=A0</div>







<div><br></div><div>On the other hand, this may not be the case, which is w=
hy I&#39;m sending this out to you better informed guys for a little feedba=
ck.</div><div><br></div><div>- Tommy</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>







</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Sweng-Gamedev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnig=
htryder.com" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/=
sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Sweng-Gamedev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnig=
htryder.com" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/=
sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><div style=3D"padding:0px;margin-left:0px;margin=
-top:0px;overflow:hidden;word-wrap:break-word;color:black;font-size:10px;te=
xt-align:left;line-height:130%">
</div>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Sweng-Gamedev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnig=
htryder.com" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/=
sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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