RE: Bush Mark II?
"Iverson, Clark" <[email protected]> Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:16:12 -0400
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Bill,
We've already gone around about the 2000 election, so I'm not going to go through the motions again.
The matter here is your assertion that Obama is a lefty.
I appreciate that losing any point, no matter how minor, must be intolerable, but look at what you're citing as authoritative now! You accept the judgement of DemocraticUnderground!?!? Give it up. Rather than relying on dubiously authoritative sources, I have gone to policy and ideas (repeat: policy and ideas), and that's how we determine where someone exists on the political spectrum, not in which outside parties emote in what way.
Also, try to avoid self-contradiction. If being DLC is a requirement to run, then it must mean something. It means what it always has, which is a retreat from traditional Democratic constituencies of labor and minorities in favor of corporate interests, so as to "triangulate" into electoral victory.
Also, you can wish away the relevance of millions of dollars in campaign donations, but wishing it away does not make something disappear. Only the most naive analyst would believe that all the candidates are utterly unaffected by their corporate donors. So yes, that means something. Specifically, it means that Obama is just as beholden to his donors as Clinton or McCain.
So much for the claim of Obama's ultra-liberalism. Apart from competent and florid oratory, nothing much differentiates him from Clinton or McCain.
There is plenty about Obama to criticize without resorting to hyperbole and right-wing myth-making.
Clark
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] on behalf of William Highfield (TopChoiceTees.com)
Sent: Wed 6/4/2008 10:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CAT23-Achat] Bush Mark II?
Clark,
One, the recounts after the election time and time again, regardless of
method or who did the recount, showed that Bush won Florida. NO RECOUNT
ever showed differently, so the Democrats got their recounts. The
entire contention was whether it was legal to recount only certain
counties, and the Supreme Court pretty much killed that flawed and
biased idea.
Two, DLC means, uh, nothing. You pretty much have to be a part of that
nowadays to run for office. He IS a liberal, and has high rankings from
all of the liberal groups that are important. The fact that major
corporations invest money and play both sides of the field
simultaneously means nothing. I'll bet you those same companies gave
nearly equal money to McCain (or will).
Three, have you been following ANY of the Democratic blog sites? I'm
not talking which Democratic fringe CANDIDATES support him, I'm talking
about the vocal ultra-left fringe of the party. They're acting as if
he's the next messiah. Any article you read on virtually any newspaper
website has Obama supporters practically fainting in orgasmic estacy,
and they're all from that ultra-left fringe. DailyKos, Democratic
Underground, and a few others are THRILLED with him. Frankly, anything
that makes that group of nutcases happy cannot be good for the rest of us.
Same goes for Ron Paul on the Republican ultra-right, too, by the way.
I like some of his ideas, but he's a total wack-job, and cannot even
think of voting for him because of it. The guy makes ross Perot look
sane. (shudder)
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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<p>Bill,<br>
We've already gone around about the 2000 election, so I'm not going to go through the motions again.<br>
The matter here is your assertion that Obama is a lefty.<br>
I appreciate that losing any point, no matter how minor, must be intolerable, but look at what you're citing as authoritative now! You accept the judgement of DemocraticUndergrou<wbr>nd!?!? Give it up. Rather than relying on dubiously authoritative sources, I have gone to policy and ideas (repeat: policy and ideas), and that's how we determine where someone exists on the political spectrum, not in which outside parties emote in what way.<br>
Also, try to avoid self-contradiction. If being DLC is a requirement to run, then it must mean something. It means what it always has, which is a retreat from traditional Democratic constituencies of labor and minorities in favor of corporate interests, so as to "triangulate" into electoral victory.<br>
Also, you can wish away the relevance of millions of dollars in campaign donations, but wishing it away does not make something disappear. Only the most naive analyst would believe that all the candidates are utterly unaffected by their corporate donors. So yes, that means something. Specifically, it means that Obama is just as beholden to his donors as Clinton or McCain.<br>
So much for the claim of Obama's ultra-liberalism. Apart from competent and florid oratory, nothing much differentiates him from Clinton or McCain.<br>
There is plenty about Obama to criticize without resorting to hyperbole and right-wing myth-making. <br>
<br>
Clark<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:CAT23-Achat%40yahoogroups.com">CAT23-Achat@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a> on behalf of William Highfield (TopChoiceTees.<wbr>com)<br>
Sent: Wed 6/4/2008 10:59 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:CAT23-Achat%40yahoogroups.com">CAT23-Achat@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [CAT23-Achat] Bush Mark II?<br>
<br>
Clark,<br>
<br>
One, the recounts after the election time and time again, regardless of <br>
method or who did the recount, showed that Bush won Florida. NO RECOUNT <br>
ever showed differently, so the Democrats got their recounts. The <br>
entire contention was whether it was legal to recount only certain <br>
counties, and the Supreme Court pretty much killed that flawed and <br>
biased idea.<br>
<br>
Two, DLC means, uh, nothing. You pretty much have to be a part of that <br>
nowadays to run for office. He IS a liberal, and has high rankings from <br>
all of the liberal groups that are important. The fact that major <br>
corporations invest money and play both sides of the field <br>
simultaneously means nothing. I'll bet you those same companies gave <br>
nearly equal money to McCain (or will).<br>
<br>
Three, have you been following ANY of the Democratic blog sites? I'm <br>
not talking which Democratic fringe CANDIDATES support him, I'm talking <br>
about the vocal ultra-left fringe of the party. They're acting as if <br>
he's the next messiah. Any article you read on virtually any newspaper <br>
website has Obama supporters practically fainting in orgasmic estacy, <br>
and they're all from that ultra-left fringe. DailyKos, Democratic <br>
Underground, and a few others are THRILLED with him. Frankly, anything <br>
that makes that group of nutcases happy cannot be good for the rest of us.<br>
<br>
Same goes for Ron Paul on the Republican ultra-right, too, by the way. <br>
I like some of his ideas, but he's a total wack-job, and cannot even <br>
think of voting for him because of it. The guy makes ross Perot look <br>
sane. (shudder)<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
<br>
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