Re: Re: Clarity of Orders
rsetzer <[email protected]> Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:47:20 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.diplomacy.cat23.gm |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
I was going to say that in fact. Lots of times in WM orders I see and extra 's' appearing and just assume that the writers grasp of English grammer is not perfect, but certainly better than my grasp of Norwegian grammer. [email protected] wrote: > We non-native English speakers doesn't always knows when we shoulds puts > an s after the verb. It seem to me it aren't the best of ideas to disallows orders > on such finer grammatic points. :-) > > But then again, having one way of adjudicating for English-speakers and one > for the rest of us may not make a lot of sense either. > > Joe > > On 25 Jul 2005 at 9:57, [email protected] wrote: > > This "s"? Maybe so. I do not know if this is an order to move to the province to to support a unit holding in the province. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: rsetzer <[email protected]> > Date: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:21 am > Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Re: Clarity of Orders > > >>Not always and not in all cases. Which is the point of asking. >> >> >> >>Stephen Worthy wrote: >> >>>Both are ambiguous despite linguistic issues, simply because >> >>people >> >>>have been arguing both cases. >>> >>>This is why I e-mail players to clarify these things. Perhaps >> >>you'd >> >>>have time to do that? >>> >>>Stephen >>> >>>--- In [email protected], "David E. Cohen" >> >><zendip18@o...> >> >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>>>I was leaning that way before, and on reflection I have >>> >>>concluded "to >>> >>> >>>>supports" is just ambiguous, both grammatically and dip-wise. I >> >>>would say >>> >>> >>>>that "to support", on the other hand, is not, and can be part of >> >>a >> >>>valid >>> >>> >>>>support order. >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Michael D. Ashland" <warlord@m...> >>>>To: <[email protected]> >>>>Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 10:19 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [CAT23-GM] Clarity of Orders >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Adam, >>>>> >>>>>Is English your first language? It may not be for the player in >>>>>question, and the "s" on "supports" could be a typo. I'm not an >>> >>>English >>> >>> >>>>>major by any stretch of the imagination, and only Libby knows >>> >>>for sure, >>> >>> >>>>>but I would not rule these orders as ambiguous unless the >> >>player >> >>>had >>> >>> >>>>>been warned about this type of thing earlier in the game. >>>>> >>>>>I know there are "strict constructionists" out there, and >> >>that's >> >>>one of >>> >>> >>>>>the reasons we like human GM's around here. >>>>> >>>>>And for the record, I'm not trying to determine the player's >>> >>>intent. I >>> >>> >>>>>do not care what his or her intent was. I'm taking a poorly >>> >>>written >>> >>> >>>>>order, and deciding that it only has one possible meaning, >> >>using >> >>>just my >>> >>> >>>>>own particular brand of logic, in a case taken out of context, >>> >>>and with >>> >>> >>>>>some circumstances assumed. >>>>> >>>>>Regards to all, >>>>> >>>>>Mike A. >>>>> >>>>>Adam Kuehn wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Michael D. Ashland wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>You are going to get opinions both ways, but "to" is a >>> >>>preposition, not >>> >>> >>>>>>>a verb, and as such, the presence of the word "support(s)" (a >>> >>>transitive >>> >>> >>>>>>>verb in this case) in the orders would settle the question in >>> >>>my mind. >>> >>> >>>>>>Case 6 is an infinitive, read literally, so I can see how your >>>>>>argument might hold there. But I do not understand your >>> >>>willingness >>> >>> >>>>>>to parse the phrase "to supports" down into its components and >>> >>>then >>> >>> >>>>>>rule that "supports" is somehow more important because of >> >>which >> >>>part >>> >>> >>>>>>of speech it represents. By itself, "to" has a clear meaning. >>>>>>("[U]sed as a function word to indicate movement", if you want >>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>>exact, pedantic phrase from Merriam-Webster online.) By itself, >>>>>>"supports" has an equally clear, but opposite, meaning. Their >>>>>>concatenation, "to supports", is grammatically nonsensical. >>>>>> >>>>>>I just don't see how the part of speech of the component words >>> >>>helps >>> >>> >>>>>>you divine the intent of the person writing the order. I'm not >>>>>>trying to be overly picky, I'm just genuinely interested in >>> >>>hearing >>> >>> >>>>>>why you think the part of speech helps, given that each word is >>>>>>independently successful in conveying unambiguous meaning. >>>>>> >>>>>>In my view, as likely as not we are looking at a cut-and-paste >>> >>>error. >>> >>> >>>>>>The player intended one thing at first, and then tried to cut >> >>in >> >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>>opposite thing but failed to delete the superceded material. But >>>>>>which material is to be superceded? There's just no way to know. >>>>>> >>>>>>-Adam >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Community email addresses: >>>>>>Post message: [email protected] >>>>>>Subscribe: [email protected] >>>>>>Unsubscribe: [email protected] >>>>>>List owner: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>>Shortcut URL to this page: >>>>>>http://www.onelist.com/community/CAT23-GM >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Community email addresses: >>>>>Post message: [email protected] >>>>>Subscribe: [email protected] >>>>>Unsubscribe: [email protected] >>>>>List owner: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>Shortcut URL to this page: >>>>>http://www.onelist.com/community/CAT23-GM >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Community email addresses: >>> Post message: [email protected] >>> Subscribe: [email protected] >>> Unsubscribe: [email protected] >>> List owner: [email protected] >>> >>>Shortcut URL to this page: >>> http://www.onelist.com/community/CAT23-GM >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>Community email addresses: >> Post message: [email protected] >> Subscribe: [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: [email protected] >> List owner: [email protected] >> >>Shortcut URL to this page: >> http://www.onelist.com/community/CAT23-GM >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > Community email addresses: > Post message: [email protected] > Subscribe: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: [email protected] > List owner: [email protected] > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www.onelist.com/community/CAT23-GM > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Community email addresses: > Post message: [email protected] > Subscribe: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: [email protected] > List owner: [email protected] > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www.onelist.com/community/CAT23-GM > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >