Re: Requesting Other GM's Opinions
"Roy Rink" <[email protected]> Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:53:35 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.diplomacy.cat23.gm |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <009001c7c4d7$7b73fc40$1ef9a4d8@DC0PJK91> |
--k5it0AQWmFEXFitsBEQ814Hjajv1pvNhy6ZBO6H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As long as the House rules were distributed BEFORE the game started, The player in question has no recourse. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: Former Trout To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 6:45 PM Subject: [CAT23-GM] Requesting Other GM's Opinions Hi folks, A matter has arisen in one of my games concerning a house rule and a ruling based on it. The player in question has requested second opinions on my ruling, and I can think of no better place to ask than here. My house rules are always distributed to players at the start of the game for their review and comment. In this case, no reference was made about this HR being unfair until the game ruling was made based on it. The House rule in particular: IV. Specification of Unit Type, Unit Nationality and Coast in Orders: (1) Omitted or Inaccurate Designations: An omitted designation of the type of a unit (A or F) in orders other than build orders will not invalidate the order. An inaccurate designation of the type of a unit (A or F) will invalidate the order. The situation: A four center England has FLEET Wales. A 6 center Germany has FLEET English Channel. It is currently a Fall season. The orders are as follows: England: A Wales -> London Germany: F English Channel -> London My ruling is that based on my HR's, the English order is invalid and Germany succeeds into London, taking the center and gaining a build. The English player has protested this ruling claiming that the intent of the order is clear, and that player intent should take precedence over written orders. Two other factors color his argument: 1. My house rules state that if I see an apparent misorder in player orders, at my discretion I will seek to clarify with the player, if time remains prior to the adjudication. It states clearly that I will not catch all possible mistakes and that players are ultimately responsible for their own orders. In this case, I did not spot the error until mid-way through the adjudication. 2. My house rules also state that if in a situation where the spirit and character of the game will be impacted that I may, at my discretion, choose to ignore the house rules if a less drastic course of action is unsatisfactory. The player in question claims that his strategy and position are detrimentally and fatally impacted by this ruling and would like a review performed of it. Again, his position is that the intent was clear and that this should trump accurate unit designation. The player does not disagree that the correct decision was made according to the house rules, his argument is that the house rules are wrong and unfair. I would love to hear second, third or even fourth opinions on this. My apologies for bothering you all, but I need help in resolving this matter. Thanks all, very much, Trout [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --k5it0AQWmFEXFitsBEQ814Hjajv1pvNhy6ZBO6H Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <!-- Network content --> <body style="background-color: #ffffff;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text"> <p>As long as the House rules were distributed BEFORE the game started, The player in question has no recourse.<br> <br> Roy<br> ----- Original Message ----- <br> From: Former Trout <br> To: <a href="mailto:Cat23-GM%40yahoogroups.com">Cat23-GM@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a> <br> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 6:45 PM<br> Subject: [CAT23-GM] Requesting Other GM's Opinions<br> <br> Hi folks,<br> <br> A matter has arisen in one of my games concerning a house rule and a ruling<br> based on it. The player in question has requested second opinions on my<br> ruling, and I can think of no better place to ask than here.<br> <br> My house rules are always distributed to players at the start of the game<br> for their review and comment. In this case, no reference was made about<br> this HR being unfair until the game ruling was made based on it.<br> <br> The House rule in particular:<br> <br> IV. Specification of Unit Type, Unit Nationality and Coast in Orders:<br> (1) Omitted or Inaccurate Designations: An omitted designation of the type<br> of a unit (A or F) in orders other than build orders will not invalidate the<br> order. An inaccurate designation of the type of a unit (A or F) will<br> invalidate the order.<br> <br> The situation:<br> A four center England has FLEET Wales. A 6 center Germany has FLEET English<br> Channel. It is currently a Fall season. The orders are as follows:<br> <br> England:<br> A Wales -> London<br> Germany:<br> F English Channel -> London<br> <br> My ruling is that based on my HR's, the English order is invalid and Germany<br> succeeds into London, taking the center and gaining a build.<br> <br> The English player has protested this ruling claiming that the intent of the<br> order is clear, and that player intent should take precedence over written<br> orders. Two other factors color his argument:<br> <br> 1. My house rules state that if I see an apparent misorder in player<br> orders, at my discretion I will seek to clarify with the player, if time<br> remains prior to the adjudication. It states clearly that I will not catch<br> all possible mistakes and that players are ultimately responsible for their<br> own orders. In this case, I did not spot the error until mid-way through<br> the adjudication.<br> <br> 2. My house rules also state that if in a situation where the spirit and<br> character of the game will be impacted that I may, at my discretion, choose<br> to ignore the house rules if a less drastic course of action is<br> unsatisfactory.<br> <br> The player in question claims that his strategy and position are<br> detrimentally and fatally impacted by this ruling and would like a review<br> performed of it. Again, his position is that the intent was clear and that<br> this should trump accurate unit designation. The player does not disagree<br> that the correct decision was made according to the house rules, his<br> argument is that the house rules are wrong and unfair.<br> <br> I would love to hear second, third or even fourth opinions on this. My<br> apologies for bothering you all, but I need help in resolving this matter.<br> <br> Thanks all, very much,<br> <br> Trout<br> <br> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br> <br> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br> <br> </p> </div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span> <!-- Start the section with Message In topic --> <div id="ygrp-actbar"> <span class="left"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/message/5546;_ylc=X3oDMTMzMWlzbmZqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEbXNnSWQDNTU0NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODQyODA4NTgEdHBjSWQDNTU0Ng--"> Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>) </span> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJvbDlsMHNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEbXNnSWQDNTU0NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODQyODA4NTg-?act=reply&messageNum=5547"> <span class="bld"> Reply </span> (via web post) </a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMHJuZTMxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg0MjgwODU4" class="bld"> Start a new topic </a> </div> <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-vitnav"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkanZ1YzFlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMTg0MjgwODU4">Messages</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMzQxaWVrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NDI4MDg1OA--">Files</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNjRzMm5zBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMTg0MjgwODU4">Photos</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJldHBwa3FzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGlua3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NDI4MDg1OA--">Links</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJibnVpaGxjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZGIEc3RpbWUDMTE4NDI4MDg1OA--">Database</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOTdqczB1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NDI4MDg1OA--">Polls</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJkN2MwaWlqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMTg0MjgwODU4">Members</a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAT23-GM/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJjZ2xoajY0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDY2FsBHN0aW1lAzExODQyODA4NTg-">Calendar</a> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <!-- Do not have place to put it yet --> <div id="ygrp-grft"> </div> <!-- yahoo logo --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-ft"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjMjhycGxoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM2MDI2OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNTcxNDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzExODQyODA4NTg-"> <img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! 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