Re: HDR / PBR / compositor info
Patrick Callahan <[email protected]> Sun, 12 Jul 2026 08:57:37 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.flightgear.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CACt=GQokeDeqVFBJTsbUbtjz6rqbtwtK921CU_js9rMWcqU6FA@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============0370259845282896546== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d5c7a0065669866a" --000000000000d5c7a0065669866a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Isn't the transformation from one coordinate system to another a task for the code that loads a model from a file? On Fri, Jul 10, 2026 at 2:41=E2=80=AFAM Josh Davidson <joshdavidson2000@out= look.com> wrote: > Well, wiki also says: > *Transform -> +Y up* > Make sure to keep this *OFF*. Blender uses a +Z up convention like > FlightGear, so we do not adhere to the glTF standard (+Y up). > > So does that mean glTF's will be +Z up? > > -- > Josh Davidson > ------------------------------ > *From:* Josh Davidson <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, July 10, 2026 01:32 > *To:* FlightGear developers discussions < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [Flightgear-devel] HDR / PBR / compositor info > > About next... > > https://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Convert_from_AC3D_to_glTF > > This doesn't make sense. In the AC3D system, Y is up/down, in FG Z is > up/down, in glTF, Y is up/down. Someone made a conscious choice to make Z > up/down in FlightGear a VERY long time ago. > > Can't that choice be duplicated so we don't end up with having to rework > 1000s of lines of code to move to glTF? Also wouldn't reworking it mean > coordinate schemes are now different for the model vs the FDE/etc? If so, > that would be horrible... but as would having to swap axis' on the FDE's = as > that would ruin everything. > > So emotional annoyance aside, wouldn't it be possible to simply swap -Y > and Z again on glTF just like is already done on AC3D? Reminder, in AC3D,= Y > is up/down... no idea why when blender got involved that changed to Z, or > why FG moved it to Z as well. > > Basically, it would be so cool if we could reduce the amount of > "unnecessary breaking" occurring in the glTF migration. > > I would also like to ask why the emission animation was removed? What > about existing AC3D models? What if I need to make something light up > conditionally? What do I do then? > > In all honesty, I'm really not thrilled about how much reworking I'll hav= e > to do when next releases if things continue this way... > > -- > Josh Davidson > ------------------------------ > *From:* Wayne Bragg <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Sunday, June 7, 2026 23:18 > *To:* [email protected] < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [Flightgear-devel] HDR / PBR / compositor info > > On 6/7/2026 9:44 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > --disable-ai-traffic > > Thanks, that is what I was looking for. Any idea about the Livery issue? > > > Wayne > > > > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [email protected] > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flists.= sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fflightgear-devel&data=3D05%7C02%7C%7Cb= bd40ada79cc460904d208dec5151e87%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%= 7C639164891710612798%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOi= IwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C= &sdata=3DhekN4nOxooY%2FMk3Tq1AZUxQz39SI1R1f%2BOgyoy8l938%3D&reserved=3D0 > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel> > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > --000000000000d5c7a0065669866a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Isn't the transformation from one coordinate system to= another a task for the code that loads a model from a file?<div><br></div>= </div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr"= class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 10, 2026 at 2:41=E2=80=AFAM Josh Davidson= <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">joshdavidson2000@outlo= ok.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m= argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left= :1ex"><div class=3D"msg-8750960233946630352"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Well, wiki also says:</div> <dl style=3D"margin-top:0.2em;margin-bottom:0.5em"><dt style=3D"margin-bott= om:0.1em"> <div style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:0px;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_Embed= dedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;col= or:rgb(0,0,0)"> <b>Transform -> +Y up</b></div> </dt><dd style=3D"margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.1em;margin-left:1.6em"> <div style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:0px;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_Embed= dedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;col= or:rgb(0,0,0)"> Make sure to keep this=C2=A0<b>OFF</b>. Blender uses a +Z up convention lik= e FlightGear, so we do not adhere to the glTF standard (+Y up).</div> </dd></dl> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> So does that mean glTF's will be +Z up?</div> <div id=3D"m_-8750960233946630352Signature"> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:0px;margin:0px;font-family:Aptos,= Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-si= ze:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> --</div> <div style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:0px;margin:0px;font-family:Aptos,= Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-si= ze:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Josh Davidson</div> </div> <div id=3D"m_-8750960233946630352appendonsend"></div> <hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%"> <div id=3D"m_-8750960233946630352divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"C= alibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b>= Josh Davidson <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 10, 2026 01:32<br> <b>To:</b> FlightGear developers discussions <<a href=3D"mailto:flightge= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]= urceforge.net</a>><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Flightgear-devel] HDR / PBR / compositor info</font> <div>=C2=A0</div> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> About next...</div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <a href=3D"https://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Convert_from_AC3D_to_glTF" tar= get=3D"_blank">https://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Convert_from_AC3D_to_glTF<= /a></div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> This doesn't make sense. In the AC3D system, Y is up/down, in FG Z is u= p/down, in glTF, Y is up/down. Someone made a conscious choice to make Z up= /down in FlightGear a VERY long time ago.</div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Can't that choice be duplicated so we don't end up with having to r= ework 1000s of lines of code to move to glTF? Also wouldn't reworking i= t mean coordinate schemes are now different for the model vs the FDE/etc? I= f so, that would be horrible... but as would having to swap axis' on the FDE's as that would ruin everything.</= div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> So emotional annoyance aside, wouldn't it be possible to simply swap -Y= and Z again on glTF just like is already done on AC3D? Reminder, in AC3D, = Y is up/down... no idea why when blender got involved that changed to Z, or= why FG moved it to Z as well.</div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Basically, it would be so cool if we could reduce the amount of "unnec= essary breaking" occurring in the glTF migration.</div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> I would also like to ask why the emission animation was removed? What about= existing AC3D models? What if I need to make something light up conditiona= lly? What do I do then?</div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> In all honesty, I'm really not thrilled about how much reworking I'= ll have to do when next releases if things continue this way...</div> <div id=3D"m_-8750960233946630352x_Signature"> <div style=3D"font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Cali= bri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:0px;margin:0px;font-family:Aptos,= Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-si= ze:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> --</div> <div style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:0px;margin:0px;font-family:Aptos,= Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-si= ze:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Josh Davidson</div> </div> <div id=3D"m_-8750960233946630352x_appendonsend"></div> <hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%"> <div id=3D"m_-8750960233946630352x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D= "Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</= b> Wayne Bragg <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= >[email protected]</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 7, 2026 23:18<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">flightgear-deve= [email protected]</a>><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Flightgear-devel] HDR / PBR / compositor info</font> <div>=C2=A0</div> </div> <div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"> <div>On 6/7/2026 9:44 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_= blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:<br> > --disable-ai-traffic<br> <br> Thanks, that is what I was looking for. Any idea about the Livery issue?<br= > <br> <br> Wayne<br> <br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> Flightgear-devel mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= >[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel" t= arget=3D"_blank">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps= %3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fflightgear-devel&da= ta=3D05%7C02%7C%7Cbbd40ada79cc460904d208dec5151e87%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa= aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C639164891710612798%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1= hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ= %3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DhekN4nOxooY%2FMk3Tq1AZUxQz39SI1R1f%2BOgyoy8= l938%3D&reserved=3D0</a><br> </div> </span></font></div> </div> </div> _______________________________________________<br> Flightgear-devel mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= >[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/lis= tinfo/flightgear-devel</a><br> </div></blockquote></div> --000000000000d5c7a0065669866a-- --===============0370259845282896546== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --===============0370259845282896546== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Flightgear-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel --===============0370259845282896546==--