[freeciv-data] Re: Re: Alternative nation dialog

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Raahul Kumar wrote:

> > Then, as has already been pointed out, why not have Lithuania as world 
> > superpower and everybody else as the rats in the walls? It's one of those 
> > nice things in the game!
> 
> Realism. 

Huh? Then how come the Astronomy Wonder isn't Stonehenge aka the Giant's
Dance? Not to mention all the goodies the Chinese and maybe Indians ought
to have had quite early. I hear rumours that a city from 5000 or so BC was
found off the coast of India recently but maybe thats just urban myth?

> There are a lot of nations that are almost unknown. But that is what the
> Ancient
> Era modpack is for. And total accuracy is very dangerous. Consider China and
> India. In Freeciv terms, they would start with catapaults, elephants, maths,
> early writing, construction, and in prime agricultural areas. China at least
> would also have magnetism,  and gunpowder. There'd be no way these nations
> would
> not totally dominate in Freeciv.

> Indians and Chinese civs, bizarrely, never made a bid to take over the world. I
> cannot explain why. 

Possibly something to do with philosophy/religion. I have always thought
Civ treats that area too cavalierly. It may well be that something along
those lines should lead toward civilisations with minuses on war but
conceivably accompanied by tendencies not to bother going to war with
them. Maybe converting people instead of conquering them or something.
According to some Indian religions this is just the latest of hundreds of
thousands of worlds that Brahma and his bunch were involved with, and
killing people didnt really stop them much as they just reincarnated. To
stop them seriously you had to "take their topknot" or something to keep
them from having their full powers when they reincarnate. Plus some of the
Brahmins could destroy the whole universe with a sutra. Yet the
Baghavad-Gita is set on a battlefield so they can't have been totally
unwarlike. Possibly a case of being too dependent on "great leaders" ?

I notice in the ancients modpack leadership is how Monotheism is
developed, and may possibly also derive from having a national epic or
myth. I notice also that the statue of liberty is attributed with quite an
epic power/ability. A good thing the terrorists didnt hit that instead of
the trade towers eh? I had always considered it a Colossus and thus as
evidence that after enough time has passed since the demise of a Wonder it
can be built again. The ability currently attributed to it seems more like
an Idol and more appropriate to some kind of religion/philosophy/psychwar
secenario (mind control of some sort, massively superstitious or
controlled). That power made more sense for the ancient Pyramids than for
the Statue of Liberty, even though it probably is true that The States is
quite capable of reverting to a Despotism quite swiftly.

> Heh. Weird, I cannot imagine dinosaur tech. Sharp teeth, spikes on tail ...

Read Harry Harrison's East of Eden (West of Eden?) trilogy. If the mammals
hadn't lucked out due to a disaster - and freeciv does not yet *have*
disasters - things maybe could have turned out different.

> Nyet, Israeli civ had no impact. Their religion on the other hand did only
> indirectly. If people everywhere had converted to judaism, you would have a
> point. Israeli civ never gave any great scientific advances or controlled large
> chunk of the world.

Blame the crucifiction on the Romans instead eh?  ;-)

BB
MM

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