[ippm] Re: Joint BMWG/IPPM chartering - implementation polic y
Alex Huang Feng <[email protected]> Sun, 10 May 2026 11:12:30 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.ippm,gmane.ietf.bmwg |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============6027149875924713866== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C3FE60E0-E316-46A6-B16D-F74601D8D00C" --Apple-Mail=_C3FE60E0-E316-46A6-B16D-F74601D8D00C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear BMWG and IPPM, I think this proposal is very valuable, notably in OPS, where this = implementation policy does not seem to be widely adopted. Between the options, I like option 2 or 3. The reason I don=E2=80=99t like option 1 is because it can see by the = community that an implementation is still *optional* and could lead to = not changing anything at the end. (It seems like the =E2=80=9CSHOULD=E2=80=9D in YANG, where, from the = spec, you know you should do it, but nothing stops an implementor to = just disregard it) I think I would start with option 2, and see whether the documents = progress enough with an implementation. Applying a new policy requiring = 2 independent implementations could lead to have too many documents = failing to progress beyond the WG stage. And I support the idea of having exceptions. However, as the text below = mention, they should be justified either in the document or in its = write-up. Regards, Alex > On 7 May 2026, at 10:13, Thomas.Graf-Zc0CTiu5wcBWk0Htik3J/[email protected] wrote: >=20 > Dear BMWG and IPPM, > =20 > We have with https://github.com/ietf-ippm/wg-charter/issues/4 a = suggestion from Med to consider adding an implementation policy in the = join charter proposal. > =20 > We chairs have been thinking how this could be addressed best in the = charter and came up with the 3 proposals: > =20 > The WG prioritizes documents with implementations. > The WG requires an implementation for standard track documents. In = some cases exceptions can be applied. Whenever such an exception = applies, the exception justification must be included in the = specification document or its write-up. > The WG requires two implementations for standard track documents. In = some cases exceptions can be applied. Whenever such an exception = applies, the exception justification must be included in the = specification document or its write-up. > =20 > The main differences between the choices are underlined. > =20 > We would like to have feedback from both working groups on > =20 > wherever an implementation policy should be added or not > wherever those choices make sense or not > which would be the preferred choice and why > =20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7942 is a good quick read in = regards to implementations and implementation status section. Rough = consensus and running code is part of the IETF DNA. Personally we think = it is helpful for the authors if the working group states what is = expected in terms of implementations. There are good reasons for having = implementations such as raising quality of the document and ensure = interoperability. But there are also reasons to progress quickly. For = instance in case where there is only a small document update or a = security fix. > =20 > Best wishes > Marcus, Giuseppe, Sarah and Thomas > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list -- [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]> --Apple-Mail=_C3FE60E0-E316-46A6-B16D-F74601D8D00C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Dear BMWG and = IPPM,<div><br></div><div>I think this proposal is very valuable, notably = in OPS, where this implementation policy does not seem to be widely = adopted.</div><div><br></div><div>Between the options, I like option 2 = or 3.</div><div>The reason I don=E2=80=99t like option 1 is because it = can see by the community that an implementation is still *optional* and = could lead to not changing anything at the end.</div><div>(It seems like = the =E2=80=9CSHOULD=E2=80=9D in YANG, where, from the spec, you know you = should do it, but nothing stops an implementor to just disregard = it)</div><div><br></div><div>I think I would start with option 2, and = see whether the documents progress enough with an implementation. = Applying a new policy requiring 2 independent implementations could lead = to have too many documents failing to progress beyond the WG = stage.</div><div><br></div><div>And I support the idea of having = exceptions. However, as the text below mention, they should be justified = either in the document or in its = write-up.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Alex</div><div><div>= <br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 7 May 2026, at 10:13, = Thomas.Graf-Zc0CTiu5wcBWk0Htik3J/[email protected] wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset=3D"UTF-8"><div = class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, = 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">Dear BMWG and = IPPM,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;">We have with<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-ippm/wg-charter/issues/4" = style=3D"color: rgb(70, 120, 134); text-decoration: underline;"><span = lang=3D"EN-US">https://github.com/ietf-ippm/wg-charter/issues/4</span></a>= </span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet = MS", sans-serif;"><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US">a = suggestion from Med to consider adding an implementation policy in the = join charter proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div style=3D"margin:= 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet = MS", sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:= 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet = MS", sans-serif;">We chairs have been thinking how this could be = addressed best in the charter and came up with the 3 = proposals:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1" = style=3D"margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;"><li = class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">The WG<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><u>prioritizes</u><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>documents with = implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" = style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, = sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: = "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">The WG<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><u>requires an</u><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>implementation for standard = track documents. In some cases exceptions can be applied. Whenever such = an exception applies, the exception justification must be included in = the specification document or its write-up.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li = class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">The WG<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><u>requires two</u><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>implementations for = standard track documents. In some cases exceptions can be applied. = Whenever such an exception applies, the exception justification must be = included in the specification document or its = write-up.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;">The main differences between the choices are = underlined.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;">We would like to have feedback from both working groups = on<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><ul type=3D"disc" = style=3D"margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;"><li = class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">wherever an = implementation policy should be added or not<o:p></o:p></span></li><li = class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">wherever those = choices make sense or not<o:p></o:p></span></li><li = class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">which would be = the preferred choice and why<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div = style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, = sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: = "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7942" = style=3D"color: rgb(70, 120, 134); text-decoration: = underline;">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7942</a><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>is a good quick read in = regards to implementations and implementation status section. Rough = consensus and running code is part of the IETF DNA. Personally we think = it is helpful for the authors if the working group states what is = expected in terms of implementations. There are good reasons for having = implementations such as raising quality of the document and ensure = interoperability. But there are also reasons to progress quickly. For = instance in case where there is only a small document update or a = security fix.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;">Best wishes<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet = MS", sans-serif;">Marcus, Giuseppe, Sarah and Thomas</span><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet = MS", sans-serif; color: gray;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, = sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: = "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS", = sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span = lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline = !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">ippm mailing list --<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: rgb(70, 120, 134); = text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">[email protected]</a><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; 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