[ippm] Fw: [bmwg] New ID: Considerations for Interpret ing Packet Loss Observed by Active Performance Measurements

Libin Liu <[email protected]> Tue, 14 Jul 2026 01:54:05 +0000
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.ippm,gmane.ietf.bmwg
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Dear All,

Following my previous email, I would like to share a more detailed set of s=
lides introducing draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations. The presentati=
on provides more background on the motivation, the interpretation problem, =
and the overall framework discussed in the draft.

The slides are available in the GitHub repo: https://github.com/LibinLiu018=
9/draft-ippm-active-loss-considerations/blob/main/slides-ippm-active-loss-c=
onsiderations-00.pdf

If the topic is of interest, I would appreciate any comments or feedback. I=
 would also be happy to discuss the work, either in Vienna during IETF 126 =
or online.

Thank you very much.


Best,
Libin

________________________________
From: Libin Liu <liulb=3D40zgclab.edu.cn-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2026 9:30 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [bmwg] New ID: Considerations for Interpreting Packet Loss Observe=
d by Active Performance Measurements

Dear All,

I would like to draw your attention to a new draft that has recently been s=
ubmitted: draft-liu-ippm-active-measurement-loss-considerations-00.

This document discusses considerations for interpreting packet loss observe=
d by active performance measurements. While measurement protocols and metri=
cs accurately report observable outcomes such as packet loss, missing respo=
nses, delay, and delay variation, these observations alone often do not rev=
eal the underlying operational cause. Similar measurement results may arise=
 from different conditions, including congestion, forwarding failures, rout=
ing changes, filtering policies, endpoint behavior, multipath forwarding, o=
r validation-related packet discard.

The document proposes a common interpretation framework that distinguishes =
measured outcomes from inferred causes. It discusses how different operatio=
nal conditions may affect the interpretation of packet loss, delay, and del=
ay variation in active performance measurements, including one-way and two-=
way measurements, OWAMP, TWAMP, STAMP, and measurements over ECMP and link =
aggregation. The document also discusses how additional operational context=
 may assist operators and measurement systems in reasoning about possible e=
xplanations for observed measurement results. The draft is available here: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations/=
. The GitHub repository for the draft is also available here for issues, co=
mments, and pull requests: https://github.com/LibinLiu0189/draft-ippm-activ=
e-loss-considerations.

Comments, suggestions, and discussions would be greatly appreciated. I woul=
d also be interested to hear whether similar interpretation challenges have=
 been encountered in operational deployments or existing measurement system=
s, and whether there are additional scenarios that should be considered in =
the document.

Thank you very much.


Best,
Libin

> -----Original Messages-----
> From: [email protected]
> Send time:Wednesday, 01/07/2026 17:09:28
> To: "Libin Liu" <[email protected]>
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-consider=
ations-00.txt
>
> A new version of Internet-Draft
> draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations-00.txt has been successfully
> submitted by Libin Liu and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:     draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations
> Revision: 00
> Title:    Considerations for Interpreting Packet Loss Observed by Active =
Performance Measurements
> Date:     2026-07-01
> Group:    Individual Submission
> Pages:    30
> URL:      https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-cons=
iderations-00.txt
> Status:   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-con=
siderations/
> HTML:     https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-cons=
iderations-00.html
> HTMLized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-liu-ippm-active-los=
s-considerations
>
>
> Abstract:
>
>    Active performance measurement protocols and metrics are commonly
>    used to measure packet loss, delay, delay variation, reachability,
>    and path behavior.  When an active measurement packet is not
>    received, a response is missing, or a measurement exchange times out,
>    the measurement result identifies the observable outcome but often
>    does not identify the underlying cause.
>
>    Loss observed by active performance measurements can be associated
>    with congestion, queue discard, link or forwarding failures, routing
>    changes, endpoint or reflector behavior, administrative filtering,
>    policing, multipath effects, or validation-related packet discard
>    such as Source Address Validation (SAV).  Different operational
>    conditions can produce similar measurement observations, but they may
>    have different meanings and require different troubleshooting
>    actions.
>
>    This document discusses considerations for interpreting packet loss
>    observed by active performance measurements.  It provides a common
>    set of considerations for separating measured outcomes from inferred
>    causes, describes operational conditions that can lead to observed
>    loss, discusses implications for one-way and two-way measurements,
>    delay and delay variation interpretation, OWAMP, TWAMP, STAMP, and
>    measurements over ECMP and link aggregation.  It also discusses how
>    some considerations may apply to hybrid and passive performance
>    measurements and identifies sources of operational context that can
>    help operators and measurement systems reason about possible
>    explanations.
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
_______________________________________________
bmwg mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

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Dear All,</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo=
nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
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nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Following my previous email, I would like to share a more detailed set of s=
lides introducing draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations. The presentati=
on provides more background on the motivation, the interpretation problem, =
and the overall framework discussed
 in the draft.</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo=
nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo=
nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
The slides are available in the GitHub repo: https://github.com/LibinLiu018=
9/draft-ippm-active-loss-considerations/blob/main/slides-ippm-active-loss-c=
onsiderations-00.pdf</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo=
nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo=
nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
If the topic is of interest, I would appreciate any comments or feedback. I=
 would also be happy to discuss the work, either in Vienna during IETF 126 =
or online.</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo=
nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo=
nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Thank you very much.</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo=
nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
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nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
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nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Best,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Libin</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<b>From:</b> Libin Liu &lt;liulb=3D40zgclab.edu.cn-Tr9gZwTxerDR74oF6e/[email protected]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 2, 2026 9:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email protected] &lt;[email protected]&gt;; [email protected] &lt;bmwg@ietf=
.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bmwg] New ID: Considerations for Interpreting Packet Loss =
Observed by Active Performance Measurements</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;">&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Dear All,<br>
<br>
I would like to draw your attention to a new draft that has recently been s=
ubmitted: draft-liu-ippm-active-measurement-loss-considerations-00.<br>
<br>
This document discusses considerations for interpreting packet loss observe=
d by active performance measurements. While measurement protocols and metri=
cs accurately report observable outcomes such as packet loss, missing respo=
nses, delay, and delay variation,
 these observations alone often do not reveal the underlying operational ca=
use. Similar measurement results may arise from different conditions, inclu=
ding congestion, forwarding failures, routing changes, filtering policies, =
endpoint behavior, multipath forwarding,
 or validation-related packet discard.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
The document proposes a common interpretation framework that distinguishes =
measured outcomes from inferred causes. It discusses how different operatio=
nal conditions may affect the interpretation of packet loss, delay, and del=
ay variation in active performance
 measurements, including one-way and two-way measurements, OWAMP, TWAMP, ST=
AMP, and measurements over ECMP and link aggregation. The document also dis=
cusses how additional operational context may assist operators and measurem=
ent systems in reasoning about possible
 explanations for observed measurement results. The draft is available here=
: <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-co=
nsiderations/" id=3D"OWAef180334-9f28-8286-776a-fe8a8bb522fa" class=3D"OWAA=
utoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations/=
</a>. The GitHub repository for the draft is also available here for issues=
, comments, and pull requests:
<a href=3D"https://github.com/LibinLiu0189/draft-ippm-active-loss-considera=
tions" id=3D"OWA654dcfab-3de6-0ae2-dcdf-2a77ebb1b3b0" class=3D"OWAAutoLink"=
 data-auth=3D"NotApplicable">
https://github.com/LibinLiu0189/draft-ippm-active-loss-considerations</a>.<=
br>
<br>
Comments, suggestions, and discussions would be greatly appreciated. I woul=
d also be interested to hear whether similar interpretation challenges have=
 been encountered in operational deployments or existing measurement system=
s, and whether there are additional
 scenarios that should be considered in the document.<br>
<br>
Thank you very much.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Libin<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Messages-----<br>
&gt; From: [email protected]<br>
&gt; Send time:Wednesday, 01/07/2026 17:09:28<br>
&gt; To: &quot;Libin Liu&quot; &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: New Version Notification for draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-consi=
derations-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; A new version of Internet-Draft<br>
&gt; draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations-00.txt has been successfully=
<br>
&gt; submitted by Libin Liu and posted to the<br>
&gt; IETF repository.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-consideration=
s<br>
&gt; Revision: 00<br>
&gt; Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Considerations for Interpreting Packet Loss O=
bserved by Active Performance Measurements<br>
&gt; Date:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2026-07-01<br>
&gt; Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual Submission<br>
&gt; Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 30<br>
&gt; URL:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/arc=
hive/id/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations-00.txt" id=3D"OWA9369c40d=
-edd9-85b8-6642-33f07e6982a1" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplica=
ble">
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations-0=
0.txt</a><br>
&gt; Status:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-=
liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations/" id=3D"OWA792dbb33-43d0-9c8c-0158-8607=
add3f1a2" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations/=
</a><br>
&gt; HTML:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/=
id/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations-00.html" id=3D"OWA2e411b6e-814=
b-ccea-0fb5-d26f477238be" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable"=
>
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerations-0=
0.html</a><br>
&gt; HTMLized: <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-liu-i=
ppm-active-loss-considerations" id=3D"OWA21ebb65d-741e-a3c2-e213-bbe5a66706=
ff" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-liu-ippm-active-loss-considerat=
ions</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Abstract:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Active performance measurement protocols and metrics=
 are commonly<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; used to measure packet loss, delay, delay variation,=
 reachability,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and path behavior.&nbsp; When an active measurement =
packet is not<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; received, a response is missing, or a measurement ex=
change times out,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the measurement result identifies the observable out=
come but often<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; does not identify the underlying cause.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss observed by active performance measurements can=
 be associated<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with congestion, queue discard, link or forwarding f=
ailures, routing<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; changes, endpoint or reflector behavior, administrat=
ive filtering,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; policing, multipath effects, or validation-related p=
acket discard<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; such as Source Address Validation (SAV).&nbsp; Diffe=
rent operational<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; conditions can produce similar measurement observati=
ons, but they may<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; have different meanings and require different troubl=
eshooting<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; actions.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This document discusses considerations for interpret=
ing packet loss<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; observed by active performance measurements.&nbsp; I=
t provides a common<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; set of considerations for separating measured outcom=
es from inferred<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; causes, describes operational conditions that can le=
ad to observed<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; loss, discusses implications for one-way and two-way=
 measurements,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; delay and delay variation interpretation, OWAMP, TWA=
MP, STAMP, and<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; measurements over ECMP and link aggregation.&nbsp; I=
t also discusses how<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; some considerations may apply to hybrid and passive =
performance<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; measurements and identifies sources of operational c=
ontext that can<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; help operators and measurement systems reason about =
possible<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; explanations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The IETF Secretariat<br>
&gt;<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bmwg mailing list -- [email protected]<br>
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]</div>
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