Just a discussion proposal

"AGOSTINI Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE" <[email protected]> Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:50:00 +0200
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.cdi
Message-ID <C691E039D3895C44AB8DFD006B950FB411FF45@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr>
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> Hi all,
>=20
	Unfortunately, we will not be present next week to the IETF meeting =
however we have to submit a potential subject of discussion.

> I am responsible of the different works and studies on CDN in France =
Telecom R&D. Since several years we are working with different =
operational entities of France Telecom group on the subject.=20
> As France Telecom is a large group, it could be possible to find in =
the future several entities with a CDN offer.
> So we could have to implement a kind of internal peering.
>=20
> Consequently, we have studied the previous drafts in this group. We =
think that these drafts give good technical proposals but don't take =
into account the financial, marketing and politic problems with the =
content peering enough.
>=20
> First point could be: why will an entity, having its own CDN, do =
peering with another? Some answers are:
> 	- to cover black zones (i.e. countries were entity's CDN have no POP)
> 	- to significantly improve end-users QoS, knowing that this =
improvement has a cost (shared revenues,...)
> 	- to reduce costs (local bandwidth should be cheaper than =
international bandwidth)
> 	- to be able to share load if CDN becomes overloaded for some reasons
>=20
> From our point of view, the "black box" concept implies some =
limitations that will be hardly accepted.
> As an example, nobody could accept to push its contents or redirect =
the end-users towards another company's network with no other QoS =
guarantee than confidence.
> It is already the case between entities of a same group, so it is not =
thinkable between two different companies.
> In the same order of idea, an entity won't accept to do content =
peering if end-user QoS improvement is about 5% with a revenue share of =
50%, or if time to last byte is improved by 50% but original time was =
around milliseconds.=20
>=20
	For a Telecom operator, an entity with a CDN could accept to direct a =
surfer towards another CDN only if it is sure that the searched content =
is available on a "good" surrogate in this second CDN and if it is sure =
that the surfer will be satisfied with a best QoS than using its own =
CDN.

> Moreover, it will accept to pay this service only if it has a way to =
verify that the surfer has been best satisfied than with its own CDN, or =
on some cases if it has the whole control of the content routing (for =
its content of course) and has decided itself on which surrogate to =
redirect the surfer. This can be really necessary if two peers choose a =
different routing algorithm, for example one based on DNS and the other =
based on HTTP.=20
>=20
> For us, the content peering system has:
> - to allow each CDN owner to see all surrogates (or POPs) of another =
peer: A CDN can be interested by using only a part of the surrogates of =
a peer if they increase its coverage. (In a black box system, any =
surrogate can serve it without real QoS improvement regarding originated =
CDN). Doing this, it allows first CDN to choose routing algorithm: =
delegation or not (including some financial criteria).
> - to allow each CDN owner to know the surrogates and network load of =
another peer: it is required to determine if it is interesting to direct =
a request towards another CDN or not. By this way, each CDN peer assumes =
its responsibility if it direct a request towards another peer,
> - to be able to guarantee the time to push or refresh contents on each =
surrogate: It implies access rights to the distribution system and a =
standardization of the associated supervision,
> - to upload logs of delegated requests to determine the QoS of each =
CDN peer,
> - ...
>=20
>=20
> For that, a first step could be to standardize load measurement =
methods and metrics, scalable protocol to exchange load information, =
content management information and linked protocols, .... As a =
consequence, it will then be possible to share CDN Pops between =
different CDNs.>=20
>=20
> Consequently, peering agreement could be limited to a part of each =
CDN. A CDN peer could decide to use only a subset of the surrogates of =
another CDN. Then the second CDN peer has to define a "virtual CDN" or =
"subCDN", which can be used by the first CDN peer. The second peer has =
to provide a real-time state of the load (network and host) of this =
global subCDN or of each surrogate using standard metrics. So the first =
peer can use these data to compare them with its metrics and choose if =
the requests have to be direct towards the second CDN. Then, a =
supervision function has to allow verifying that the requests have been =
satisfied with the awaited QoS.
>=20
> Another way could be to build a solution presupposing that an =
independent third party exists, able to supervise and manage all the CDN =
peers and to give some guarantees on the QoS of each CDN.
>=20
> Sorry to only send some general idea but I hope that they will imply =
some reactions.
>=20
> Good meeting and best regards
>=20
> Pierre
>=20
>=20

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<UL>
<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi =
all,</FONT></SPAN>
</P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Unfortunately, =
w</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">e will not be present next week to =
the IETF meeting however we have to submit a potential subject of =
discussion.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I am responsible =
of the different works and studies on CDN in France Telecom R&amp;D. =
Since several years we are working with different operational entities =
of France Telecom group on the subject. </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">As France Telecom =
is a large group, it could be possible to find in the future several =
entities with a CDN offer.</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">So we could have =
to implement a kind of internal peering.</FONT></SPAN>
</P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Consequently, we =
have studied the previous drafts in this group. We think that these =
drafts give good technical proposals but don't take into account the =
financial, marketing and politic problems with the content peering =
enough.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">First point could =
be: why will an entity, having its own CDN, do peering with another? =
Some answers are:</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- to cover black zones (i.e. countries =
were entity's CDN have no POP)</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- to significantly improve end-users QoS, =
knowing that this improvement has a cost (shared =
revenues,...)</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- to reduce costs (local bandwidth should =
be cheaper than international bandwidth)</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- to be able to share load if CDN becomes =
overloaded for some reasons</FONT></SPAN>
</P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From our point of =
view, the &quot;black box&quot; concept implies some limitations that =
will be hardly accepted.</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">As an example, =
nobody could accept to push its contents or redirect the end-users =
towards another company's network with no other QoS guarantee than =
confidence.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It is already the =
case between entities of a same group, so it is not thinkable between =
two different companies.</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">In the same order =
of idea, an entity won't accept to do content peering if end-user QoS =
improvement is about 5% with a revenue share of 50%, or if time to last =
byte is improved by 50% but original time was around milliseconds. =
</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For a Telecom =
operator</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">, an entity with a CDN =
could accept to direct a surfer towards another CDN only if it is sure =
that the searched content is available on a &quot;good&quot; surrogate =
in this second CDN and if it is sure that the surfer will be satisfied =
with a best QoS than using its own CDN.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Moreover, it will =
accept to pay this service only if it has a way to verify that the =
surfer has been best satisfied than with its own CDN, or on some cases =
if it has the whole control of the content routing (for its content of =
course) and has decided itself on which surrogate to redirect the =
surfer. This can be really necessary if two peers choose a different =
routing algorithm, for example one based on DNS and the other based on =
HTTP. </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For us, the =
content peering system has:</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- to allow each =
CDN owner to see all surrogates (or POPs) of another peer: A CDN can be =
interested by using only a part of the surrogates of a peer if they =
increase its coverage. (In a black box system, any surrogate can serve =
it without real QoS improvement regarding originated CDN). Doing this, =
it allows first CDN to choose routing algorithm: del</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">e</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">gation or =
not</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> (including some financial =
criteria)</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- to allow each =
CDN owner to know the surrogates and network load of another peer: it is =
required to determine if it is interesting to direct a request towards =
another CDN or not. By this way, each CDN peer assumes its =
responsibility if it direct a request towards another =
peer,</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- to be able to =
guarantee the time to push or refresh contents on each surrogate: It =
implies access rights to the distribution system and a standardization =
of the associated supervision,</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- to upload logs =
of delegated requests to determine the QoS of each CDN =
peer,</FONT></SPAN>

<BR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- =
...</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<BR>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For that, a first =
step could be to standardize load measurement methods and metrics, =
scalable protocol to exchange load information, content management =
information and linked protocols, .... As a consequence, it will then be =
possible to share CDN Pops between different CDNs.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Consequently, =
peering agreement could be limited to a part of each CDN. A CDN peer =
could decide to use only a subset of the surrogates of another CDN. Then =
the second CDN peer has to define a &quot;virtual CDN&quot; or =
&quot;subCDN&quot;, which can be used by the first CDN peer. The second =
peer has to provide a real-time state of the load (network and host) of =
this global subCDN or of each surrogate using standard metrics. So the =
first peer can use these data to compare them with its metrics and =
choose if the requests have to be direct towards the second CDN. Then, a =
supervision function has to allow verifying that the requests have been =
satisfied with the awaited QoS.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Another way could =
be to build a solution presupposing that an independent third party =
exists, able to supervise and manage all the CDN peers and to give some =
guarantees on the QoS of each CDN.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sorry to only send =
some general idea but I hope that they will imply some =
reactions.</FONT></SPAN>
</P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Good meeting and =
best regards</FONT></SPAN>
</P>

<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Pierre</FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<BR>
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