[DNSOP] Re: [dnsext] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC 4035 (8037)

"Eric Vyncke \(evyncke\)" <[email protected]> Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:11:57 +0000
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.dnsop,gmane.ietf.dnsext
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Paul, [adding dnsop]

As you kindly added me in cc, Iet me chime in (after a couple of PTO days):=
 per the IESG statement on errata processing [1]:
- as the errata clearly does not represent the DNSEXT WG intent at the publ=
ication time, this erratum cannot be =93verified=94
- nevertheless, it can be =93held for document update=94 (and I will act ac=
cordingly on Monday if I hear no strong objection) as the IESG statement in=
cludes =93any future update of the document *might* consider it=94

Perhaps time to write an I-D updating RFC 4035 in DNSOP ?

Regards

-=E9ric


[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/statement-iesg-iesg-processing-of-rfc-=
errata-for-the-ietf-stream-20210507/

From: Paul Hoffman <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, 30 July 2024 at 20:49
To: Elias Heftrig <[email protected]>
Cc: Rose, Scott W. (Fed) <[email protected]>, Rob Austein <[email protected]=
>, RFC Errata System <[email protected]>, [email protected] <[email protected]>=
, [email protected] <[email protected]>, [email protected] <ek.=
[email protected]>, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) <[email protected]>, [email protected] <=
[email protected]>, [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [dnsext] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC4035 (8037)
On 29 Jul 2024, at 13:48, Elias Heftrig wrote:

> as I take it from the IETF120 hallway discussions on the errata an update=
 to the RFCs is a viable way to deal with these flaws as well. Since update=
s seem to take quite a while until published, the errata, as reported, offe=
r some benefit of warning new implementers about the flaws in the meantime =
(albeit their visibility being somewhat limited). Serving that purpose, fro=
m my own perspective, an errata status of "Held for Document Update" might =
be the way to go, or else a "Rejected", but with a very clear comment that =
the reported flaws (errata 8037 and 8038) are in fact an issue and need to =
be dealt with by an update to the according RFCs. "Held for Document Update=
" might be a bit clearer in that regard.
>
> If I missed out on any discussions behind the scenes and things have beco=
me clearer in the meantime, please don't hesitate to send me an update.

Errata are the wrong way to propose technical changes to a protocol, which =
is what this errata report does. They cannot be marked as "Held for Documen=
t Update" because that presumes that the WG will later fully agree with the=
 proposed changes to the protocol.

The IETF update process is indeed somewhat heavyweight. The decision to mak=
e it that way balances long-term protocol stability against flexibility. Re=
gardless, using the errata process (which is poorly defined and not all tha=
t well executed) as a way to propose protocol changes is not a good alterna=
tive to doing the hard work of proposing updates.

--Paul Hoffman

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">Paul, [adding dnsop]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">As you kindly added me in cc, Iet me chime in (after=
 a couple of PTO days): per the IESG statement on errata processing [1]:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">- as the errata clearly does not represent the DNSEX=
T WG intent at the publication time, this erratum cannot be =93verified=94<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">- nevertheless, it can be =93held for document updat=
e=94 (and I will act accordingly on Monday if I hear no strong objection) a=
s the IESG statement includes =93any future
 update of the document *<b>might</b>* consider it=94<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">Perhaps time to write an I-D updating RFC 4035 in DN=
SOP ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">-=E9ric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">[1]
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/statement-iesg-iesg-processing-=
of-rfc-errata-for-the-ietf-stream-20210507/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/statement-iesg-iesg-processing-of-rfc-erra=
ta-for-the-ietf-stream-20210507/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div id=3D"mail-editor-reference-message-container">
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gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><span style=3D"color:black"=
>Paul Hoffman &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 30 July 2024 at 20:49<br>
<b>To: </b>Elias Heftrig &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Rose, Scott W. (Fed) &lt;[email protected]&gt;, Rob Austein &l=
t;[email protected]&gt;, RFC Errata System &lt;[email protected]&gt;, =
[email protected] &lt;[email protected]&gt;, [email protected] &lt;[email protected]=
state.edu&gt;, [email protected] &lt;[email protected]&gt;, Eric Vyncke
 (evyncke) &lt;[email protected]&gt;, [email protected] &lt;[email protected]&gt;, =
[email protected] &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [dnsext] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC4035 (8037)<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt">On 29 Jul 2024, at 13:48, Elias Heftrig wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; as I take it from the IETF120 hallway discussions on the errata an upd=
ate to the RFCs is a viable way to deal with these flaws as well. Since upd=
ates seem to take quite a while until published, the errata, as reported, o=
ffer some benefit of warning new implementers
 about the flaws in the meantime (albeit their visibility being somewhat li=
mited). Serving that purpose, from my own perspective, an errata status of =
&quot;Held for Document Update&quot; might be the way to go, or else a &quo=
t;Rejected&quot;, but with a very clear comment that
 the reported flaws (errata 8037 and 8038) are in fact an issue and need to=
 be dealt with by an update to the according RFCs. &quot;Held for Document =
Update&quot; might be a bit clearer in that regard.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If I missed out on any discussions behind the scenes and things have b=
ecome clearer in the meantime, please don't hesitate to send me an update.<=
br>
<br>
Errata are the wrong way to propose technical changes to a protocol, which =
is what this errata report does. They cannot be marked as &quot;Held for Do=
cument Update&quot; because that presumes that the WG will later fully agre=
e with the proposed changes to the protocol.<br>
<br>
The IETF update process is indeed somewhat heavyweight. The decision to mak=
e it that way balances long-term protocol stability against flexibility. Re=
gardless, using the errata process (which is poorly defined and not all tha=
t well executed) as a way to propose
 protocol changes is not a good alternative to doing the hard work of propo=
sing updates.<br>
<br>
--Paul Hoffman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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