RE: entity mib support for tcif

At 01:58 PM 9/15/2003 -0700, David T. Perkins wrote:
>HI,
>
>OK, so you want to add a field to the entity MIB so that all
>that implement it can pay a "tax" to Telcordia to use technology,
>CLEI codes,

dave, this is not the way i would characterize it.
we have standardized lots of objects in the ietf, and they're
all for things and products that people pay for.
there is no tax involved, and nobody is required to buy it.

>that is flawed

i dont know why you say that; i havent standardized those codes;
others did. they're apparently liked it enough that they're
widely used and standardized.
i'm not sure why we need to discuss the merits of particular standards
on this forum.

>and proprietary

they're adopted as standard by ANSI; Telcordia is designated
as the maintenance agent and assigns codes.

>and is limited in
>use to device vendors that sell equipment to north american
>phone companies?


they're open for anybody to use, and have been used well outside
the n.a. phone companies (your favorite router company is likely
to use them). btw, T1s are also largely a n.a. phenomena
and we write mibs for those too.
putting this in a mib module doesnt force anybody to use it;
all thats being asked is for systems that use CLEIs and that want
management access to it there needs to be a suitable object to use it.


>And this is a better approach than specifying
>an encoding scheme for CLEI code values as OIDs, which means
>no change to the existing MIB module and no requirement to
>pay the Telcordia tax?

you may have noticed that i did not comment yet on the merits
of your OID proposal; i'm not yet ready to do that but
i do think that your proposal does have merit and is elegant.
it needs to be weighed against the merits of a separate object.



>So, again, would like to know
>  1) realistic cost estimates
>  2) time for assignments
>  3) policy on publishing assignments

i dont think we should base standardization of mib objects
on their cost; that would be an interesting precedent


>  4) why the encoding as an OID value using the existing
>     MIB object is insufficient


thats a fair question; i'll respond as soon as possible,

kaj



>Regards,
>/david t. perkins
>
>On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Kaj Tesink wrote:
> > At 06:31 PM 9/14/2003 -0700, David T. Perkins wrote:
> > >HI,
> > >
> > >Can you provide us with pricing. Say, if SNMPinfo created
> > >a product that had a chassis, and 3 field replacable components,
> > >than how much would it cost SNMPinfo to obtain CLEI codes
> > >from Telcordia?
> >
> > i can get that for you & send directly if you're interested
> > (i dont think we should use this list in a debate about
> > product pricing). i believe its something like
> > a few $100 for a code to be used for as many copies of
> > the product as the manufacturer chooses. thus in your example,
> > it would depend whether the 3 field replacable components
> > are identical products or not.
> >
> >
> > >Also, the link below, http://www.atis.org/doccenter.shtml, is
> > >to an organization that provides copies of docs for a fee.
> > >I don't see how it answers any questions. It does provide
> > >a way for me to pay US$58 for an electronic copy of document
> > >T1.213. (It doens't specify the page count.)
> >
> > 17
> >
> > >Can you provide
> > >a copy of the document to us for review?
> >
> > i think that T1 documents are sold for a fee, so it would
> > be inappropriate to post one. google found this link:
> > http://www-comm.itsi.disa.mil/t1/213.html
> > unfortunately that is only an amendment but at least it shows
> > the rough outline of the CLEI and helps to show what
> > we're talking about,
> >
> > kaj
> >
> >
> >
> > >On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Kaj Tesink wrote:
> > >
> > > > At 09:44 PM 9/12/2003 -0700, C. M. Heard wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, David T. Perkins wrote:
> > > > > > In addition to the redundancy of objects, I have big issue
> > > > > > with including in a standards track MIB module, support for
> > > > > > a proprietary network management platform, and one where
> > > > > > there is significant costs for device vendors.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is a FAQ on CLEIs from telcordia:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > 
> http://www.telcordia.com/resources/commonlang/productshowroom/showroom/equip_id/carriers/faq.html
> > > > >
> > > > >[ ... remainder snipped ... ]
> > > > >
> > > > >It may be worth pointing out that CLEI codes (along with other
> > > > >Telcordia Common Language(TM) products) have been adopted as
> > > > >identifiers in ANSI standards, and there is a proposal on the table
> > > > >to add mappings of these ANSI standards to ITU-T Rec. M.1401.  See
> > > > >T1M1.3/2003-032, a URL for which is in the attached message from the
> > > > >T1M1.3 mail exploder.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yup, that is right; Telcordia is actually the designated 
> maintenance agent
> > > > for the ANSI document T1.213,
> > > > Coded Identification of Equipment Entities of the North American
> > > > Telecommunications System for
> > > > Information Exchange. This document provides the format and 
> structure for
> > > > the CLEI code.
> > > > For details see http://www.atis.org/doccenter.shtml.
> > > >
> > > > Telcordia assigns CLEI codes on a request basis from a supplier for 
> their
> > > > communications equipment.
> > > > For example, these codes are then placed on a linear bar code label 
> which
> > > > is affixed onto the plug-in card as well as
> > > > the container for that plug-in card. What we're talking about here 
> is to
> > > > make that information
> > > > accessible for network management ssystems.
> > > >
> > > > kaj
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Files Uploaded on: 09/12/2003 for T1M1.3
> > > > >
> > > > >CONTRIBUTION#: T1M1.3/2003-032 (3M130320)
> > > > >LINK: http://www.t1.org/FileMgr/GetOneFile.taf?FileName=3M130320&NW=Y
> > > > >TITLE: Proposal for mapping T1 American National Standards to proposed
> > > > >ITU-T Rec. M.1401
> > > > >DESC: Provides proposed mappings of American National Standards (ANS)
> > > > >for Telecommunications - Information Interchange to ITU-T Rec. M.1401.
> > > > >These T1 standards, based on Telcordia Technologies COMMON LANGUAGE‚
> > > > >Products, primarily provide structures and formats for identifying
> > > > >network resources.
> > > > >CONTACT(S): Paul Levine ([email protected] (732) 873-8496)
> > > > >SOURCE: Telcordia Technologies
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >CONTRIBUTION#: T1M1.3/2003-033 (3M130330)
> > > > >LINK: http://www.t1.org/FileMgr/GetOneFile.taf?FileName=3M130330&NW=Y
> > > > >TITLE: T1M1.3 WG (CLDR) Sept. 12, 2003 Meeting Report
> > > > >DESC: Documents the proceedings of the September 12, 2003
> > > > >teleconference call meeting of the T1M1.3 WG (CLDR).
> > > > >CONTACT(S): Paul Levine ([email protected] (732) 873-8496)
> > > > >SOURCE: T1M1.3 WG Chair
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
> > > >
> > > > Kaj Tesink
> > > > Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >/david t. perkins
> >
> >
> > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
> >
> > Kaj Tesink
> > Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
> > 331 Newman Springs Road
> > Red Bank, NJ 07701
> > Email: [email protected]
> > Tel: (732) 758-5254
> > Fax: (732) 758-4177
> >
> > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
> >


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Kaj Tesink
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
331 Newman Springs Road
Red Bank, NJ 07701
Email: [email protected]
Tel: (732) 758-5254
Fax: (732) 758-4177

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