Re: IETF Secretariat continues under new approach

--On Wednesday, April 15, 2026 09:17 -0700 Bob Hinden
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Mirjam,
> 
> I understand the concern that caused this decision to be made, but
> I don't understand how the resulting change will reduce this
> risk.   I fear that forcing people to move from working for AMS to
> the LLC might well have the opposite effect.   How does "by more
> direct, day-to-day management of employees" reduce this risk?   
> 
> Please explain.

Bob,

I assume Mirjam is busy or she would have replied earlier, so let me
take a shot at an answer.  I'm confident that she, or someone else
from the LLC, will correct me if I get the answer wrong or leave
something important out.

Under the historical arrangement, we have a "services" contract with
AMS: it specifies the work to be performed in as much detail as we
and they can agree upon and then they do that work. Under traditional
agreements of that variety (I have no information about the
particulars of the IETF ones, recent or past), "we" have no
formal/legal control over who does what work as long as the specified
work gets done.  Informally, of course, our historical relationship
has been such that, if someone is not working well with the
community, something is worked out.  If there are counterexamples, I
don't know of them, but it has been many years since I followed those
relationships closely (or felt any need to do so).

Under an EOR arrangement, the Secretariat staff work for the LLC even
though AMS continues to handle many administrative details including
those about legal compliance  My understanding is that EOR
arrangements are more common when the organization for whom the work
is being done is in a different country from the EOR organization and
the employees working under that agreement, precisely to be sure that
details of national laws are covered and complied with.  "Different
countries" is presumably not the case here, but I assume there are
other good reasons.  In any event, the LLC gets to pick who the
Secretariat staff are, contracts for/with named individuals and,
typically, sets very specific roles and/or job titles. If someone
leaves, most of the responsibility for selecting someone new falls on
the LLC.  And the danger of AMS pulling out someone valuable and
replacing them with someone incompetent goes to zero (although again,
AFAIK, that has never been a problem in the past).

In case it isn't clear, I really don't have an opinion as to whether
this change is a good idea or not, but I'm inclined to trust the LLC
on the matter... especially because it is not clear "we" have any
choice.

I hope that helps.  And, again, if I've gotten something seriously
wrong, I hope and trust someone will correct me.

best,
    john



> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 13, 2026, at 10:46 PM, mirkuhne
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Alissa,
>> 
>> Thanks for your note. I've been delayed in responding as I've
>> been on travel for the past few days. I am sorry if the blog post
>> was not clear enough. We added some more explanations and context,
>> but please also find answers to your questions below.
>> 
>> The Employer of Record (EOR) employment model is in line with how
>> most of the LLC staff are employed, including the RFC Production
>> Center (RPC), developers, and the Executive Director—not as
>> direct employees of the LLC but contracted through arrangements
>> with other EOR providers. The IETF LLC is responsible for staff
>> management, including personnel recruitment and replacement, goal
>> setting, and annual reviews. 
>> 
>> The Board considered several alternatives to moving to this
>> approach from the previous RFP, service-based contract
>> model—such as possibly two service contracts—and came to the
>> conclusion that in-sourcing the functions and staff who are key to
>> IETF operations would be most beneficial for all in the long-run.
>> As noted in the blog post, the LLC Board recognized the critical
>> value of the individuals involved and the accumulated knowledge
>> possessed by the AMS team. We saw it as a major strategic risk for
>> the IETF if we would lose those individuals (this was already
>> explained in the blog post, but I would like to stress this here
>> as this was really one of our main motivations for this change).
>> 
>> I would also like to note that the EOR model was not implemented
>> due to legal issues around what defines a contractor versus
>> employee. There have been no legal issues with using an
>> association management company, such as AMS, to provide
>> secretariat services to the IETF. Rather, the IETF LLC concluded
>> that AMS staff, who hold critical institutional knowledge, should
>> be employed under a person-based contract rather than a
>> service-based contract. This means we can better align the
>> services provided to the needs of the IETF by more direct,
>> day-to-day management of employees.
>> 
>> This change does mean the number of LLC staff has increased. It
>> comes after careful deliberation of how to best meet the IETF
>> LLC's responsibilities within the working principles set out in
>> RFC 8711. We believe the move to this new arrangement ensures
>> continuity and stability, and increases clarity in the short run.
>> It also provides us with flexibility in the long run, should the
>> IETF requirements change.
>> 
>> Thanks again for your note and I hope this answers the questions
>> you raised.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Mirjam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, April 9th, 2026 at 15:24, Alissa Cooper
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Mirjam,
>>> 
>>> I was just reading through this blog post and found it opaque.
>>> Are the Secretariat now LLC staff? I.e., are their performance
>>> reviews and compensation determined by the LLC? Is there any
>>> difference between their status as employees and the RPC staff,
>>> which the LLC also took over several years ago? These seem like
>>> the kinds of things that would have been straightforward to
>>> explain in the blog post. If these are the implications of the
>>> announced changes, it seems that the LLC now employs 30 people.
>>> 
>>> If it is the case that the Secretariat staff are now being
>>> managed by the LLC rather than AMS, that seems like a very
>>> significant change. It would be good to understand what the
>>> "major strategic risk" was that the LLC perceived, especially
>>> given the unique investment that AMS has made over decades to
>>> adapt to so many particular needs and wants that the IETF has
>>> expressed. When bidding out the contract, there was always a
>>> chance that AMS could take its business elsewhere, but presumably
>>> the process of the competitive bidding has functioned as an
>>> important check and motivator for AMS to deliver the services
>>> that meet the IETF's needs. If the Secretariat staff are now
>>> LLC employees, that check is gone. Gone too are all the benefits
>>> to the IETF of the cross-pollination that occurred within AMS, as
>>> AMS staff support multiple different kinds of technical
>>> organizations and bring their knowledge of how other orgs do
>>> things to their work for the IETF. I always appreciated that
>>> broader perspective in my interactions with AMS staff. The IETF
>>> is a special place, but it can be incredibly helpful to learn
>>> from outside.
>>> 
>>> If this is the change that led to Stephanie's departure, what a
>>> true loss for the IETF community!
>>> 
>>> Alissa
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 31, 2026, at 4:53 PM, IETF Administration LLC Board of
>>>> Directors Chair <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> As of 1 April 2026, the IETF Secretariat function will be
>>>> staffed through an Employer of Record (EOR) arrangement rather
>>>> than a service contract awarded through a Request for Proposal
>>>> (RFP) process as it has been until now.
>>>> 
>>>> The IETF Secretariat provides important support for two key
>>>> parts of the IETF:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. IETF meetings, and
>>>> 2. Community & leadership groups (IAB, IESG, LLC Board) support.
>>>> 
>>>> The transition is being structured so as not to affect the kind
>>>> or quality of support provided. IETF participants should see no
>>>> difference when the changeover happens. For more detail, see:
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/blog/secretariat-continuation
>>>> 
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Mirjam Kühne
>>>> Chair, Board of Directors
>>>> IETF Administration LLC
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> IETF-Announce mailing list -- [email protected]
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>