RE: Dealing with LLMs in IETF discussions draft
Andrew Campling <[email protected]> Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:08:56 +0000
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--_000_CWXP265MB6315CE30E2D68DA77C30EEF4C2C82CWXP265MB6315GBRP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The RASPRG presentations were helpful in highlighting several challenges th= at are likely relevant across many, if not all, SDOs. Lowering barriers to = participation through AI can be beneficial, particularly if it broadens and= diversifies the contributor base. However, these same tools can also be mi= sused, making it easier to overwhelm a mailing list, working group, or even= an entire SDO with what effectively amounts to a denial-of-service-style a= ttack. As I noted during the RASPRG session, this raises the question of whether o= ur rules of participation need updating. They were likely developed under t= he assumption that all participants would engage in good faith, an assumpti= on that may no longer apply, for example, if some "participants" are actual= ly AI tools auto-responding to mailing lists. Andrew From: Ignacio De Castro Arribas <[email protected]> Sent: 31 July 2026 15:58 To: Stephen Farrell <[email protected]>; IETF-Di= scussion <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Dealing with LLMs in IETF discussions draft This is definitely interesting, and it is a fact that AI use is becoming al= most omnipresent. There have been multiple discussions on the topic at RASPRG, including the = last one in Vienna with two presentations on how-to/tools for participation= from Mark Nottingham and inferring AI usage in drafts from Jaime Jim=E9nez= . https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/126/session/rasprg Given the amount of discussion we did a poll towards making an interim to k= eep discussing the topic (ie, IA-enabled participation at the IETF). Cheers, Ignacio --- Dr. Ignacio Castro Assistant Professor Electronic Engineering and Computer Science Queen Mary University of London ________________________________ From: Stephen Farrell Sent: Friday, July 31, 2026 04:20 To: IETF-Discussion Subject: Dealing with LLMs in IETF discussions draft Hi all, Myself and Chong Feng have posted an I-D [1] that (from two pretty different perspectives) aims to progress discussion of how we might better handle LLM text in IETF discussions. I think this'd be a fine topic for broad discussion. I do not know what would be the correct mailing list for such a discussion, but also think it doesn't warrant waiting for another round of dispatchery before being discussed. (Nor would any dispatch outcome above 'new mailing list' suit.) So, I'd be v. interested in comments on this and/or on it being moved to some other mailing list for discussion. If no existing list suits, I'd suggest [email protected]<mailto:humanorwhat= @ietf.org> (which could be contracted to [email protected]:-<mailto:[email protected]:->) as a n= ame for a new list, but whatever works is fine. Meanwhile, we'd be v. interested in any comments here or on the github repo [2]. And of course, this is a v. rough thing, not intended to be prescriptive or authoritative, so have at it:-) Cheers, S. [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fengfar-led/ [2] https://github.com/sftcd/led/ --_000_CWXP265MB6315CE30E2D68DA77C30EEF4C2C82CWXP265MB6315GBRP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Aptos;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p.elementtoproof, li.elementtoproof, div.elementtoproof {mso-style-name:elementtoproof; margin:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;} span.EmailStyle21 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif; color:windowtext;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt; mso-ligatures:none;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:brea= k-word"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The RASPR= G presentations were helpful in highlighting several challenges that are li= kely relevant across many, if not all, SDOs. Lowering barriers to participa= tion through AI can be beneficial, particularly if it broadens and diversifies the contributor base. However, these same t= ools can also be misused, making it easier to overwhelm a mailing list, wor= king group, or even an entire SDO with what effectively amounts to a denial= -of-service-style attack.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs= p;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As I note= d during the RASPRG session, this raises the question of whether our rules = of participation need updating. They were likely developed under the assump= tion that all participants would engage in good faith, an assumption that may no longer apply, for example, if som= e “participants” are actually AI tools auto-responding to maili= ng lists.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs= p;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs= p;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Andrew<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs= p;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> = Ignacio De Castro Arribas <[email protected]> <br> <b>Sent:</b> 31 July 2026 15:58<br> <b>To:</b> Stephen Farrell <[email protected]= >; IETF-Discussion <[email protected]><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Dealing with LLMs in IETF discussions draft<o:p></o:p><= /span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">This is= definitely interesting, and it is a fact that AI use is becoming almost om= nipresent.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&n= bsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">There h= ave been multiple discussions on the topic at RASPRG, including the last on= e in Vienna with two presentations on how-to/tools for participation from M= ark Nottingham and inferring AI usage in drafts from Jaime Jim=E9nez.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><a href= =3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/126/session/rasprg">https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/meeting/126/session/rasprg</a><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Given t= he amount of discussion we did a poll towards making an interim to keep dis= cussing the topic (ie, IA-enabled participation at the IETF).<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&n= bsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Cheers,= <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&n= bsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Ignacio= <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> <= o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&n= bsp;</o:p></span></p> <div id=3D"Signature"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper"> <p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right= :0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">---<= /span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-= serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right= :0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Dr.&= nbsp;Ignacio Castro</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= ;Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right= :0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Assi= stant Professor</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right= :0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Elec= tronic Engineering and Computer Science</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0= pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-= family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Queen Mary University of= London</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri&quo= t;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-= size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <= /span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-= serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-= serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center"> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sa= ns-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:"Cali= bri",sans-serif;color:black"> Stephen Farrell<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 31, 2026 04:20<br> <b>To:</b> IETF-Discussion<br> <b>Subject:</b> Dealing with LLMs in IETF discussions draft <o:p></o:p></sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-= serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s= ize:11.0pt"><br> Hi all,<br> <br> Myself and Chong Feng have posted an I-D [1] that (from two<br> pretty different perspectives) aims to progress discussion<br> of how we might better handle LLM text in IETF discussions.<br> <br> I think this'd be a fine topic for broad discussion. I do<br> not know what would be the correct mailing list for such a<br> discussion, but also think it doesn't warrant waiting for<br> another round of dispatchery before being discussed. (Nor<br> would any dispatch outcome above 'new mailing list' suit.)<br> <br> So, I'd be v. interested in comments on this and/or on it<br> being moved to some other mailing list for discussion. If<br> no existing list suits, I'd suggest <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= >[email protected]</a><br> (which could be contracted to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]:-">[email protected]= g:-</a>) as a name<br> for a new list, but whatever works is fine.<br> <br> Meanwhile, we'd be v. interested in any comments here or<br> on the github repo [2].<br> <br> And of course, this is a v. rough thing, not intended to<br> be prescriptive or authoritative, so have at it:-)<br> <br> Cheers,<br> S.<br> <br> [1] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fengfar-led/">https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fengfar-led/</a><br> [2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/sftcd/led/">https://github.com/sftcd/led/= </a><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </body> </html> --_000_CWXP265MB6315CE30E2D68DA77C30EEF4C2C82CWXP265MB6315GBRP_--