Re: Adding GPS location to IPv6 header
Shane Amante <[email protected]> Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:08:52 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.ipv6,gmane.ietf.geopriv |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============5271284499038524426== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E54385E1-BE28-44C1-9CBC-3E927D8A899D" --Apple-Mail=_E54385E1-BE28-44C1-9CBC-3E927D8A899D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Ammar, Instead of adding GeoLoc information in an IPv6 Extension Header, you = may wish to take a look at past & current attempts to *potentially* = encode such information in the DNS. The most recent proposal to do so = is the following: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr-03 Take a look at Appendix A for specific encoding examples that are = possible within the DNS, with currently shipping BIND 9. I base this on = production deployment experience of encoding IP prefixes in the reverse = DNS tree, as per draft-gersch, although *not* for geolocation = information, but rather for SRO (Secure Route Origin) RR's. If you're = interested in draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr, it is targeted at the = DNSOP WG of the IETF, so you may wish to subscribe to that mailing list = and discuss it over there. Lastly, I would note that the above complements RFC 1876 & RFC 2317 by = providing a nomenclature for "better" encoding of VLSM (Variable Length = Subnet Mask) IP prefixes in the reverse DNS tree. -shane On Nov 10, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Ammar Salih <[email protected]> = wrote: > Hello IETF, based on my discussions with both ipv6 and geopriv teams, = I=92ve written the below document to summarize few ideas. >=20 > Is it possible to publish this on IETF website? even if it will not be = implemented now, at least for documentation and requesting feedback from = the community. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Many thanks. >=20 > Ammar >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Ammar J. Salih > Baghdad, Iraq =20 > October 30, 2012 > Title: IP-LOC > =20 > =20 > =20 > Adding GPS location to IPv6 header > =20 > Abstract: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > =20 > This document describes IP-LOC, an extension to IPv6 header which = suggests adding GPS coordinates, as the current method of determining = the location of IP traffic is through IP address registration database, = which is not very accurate as it depends on how the ISP registers its IP = subnets, that is normally done in a country/city format. > =20 > It also assumes that in the future, GPS capability will be added to = the router itself (just like smart phones) and packet marking and = classification based on geo-location will be required. > =20 > QoS, firewall and routing based on geo-location will be highly = required when mobile routers move from one geo-location to another which = has different policy. > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > Benefits of adding GPS location to IPv6 header (IP-LOC) > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > =20 > =20 > Web Services: getting more accurate locations will enhance many = services provided by the web, like targeted commercials (for example, I = can get Ads regarding restaurants available in my neighborhoods instead = of all restaurants in the city), another good example would be webpage=92s= language, my language will be detected more accurately based on my area = rather than my country, as there are many countries with more than one = popular language, not mentioning that many ip registrations does not = even reflect the traffic originating country. >=20 > ------------------------------- > =20 > Information accuracy and control: Nowadays, locations are assigned to = IP addresses without user awareness or control, every time a user = performs ip-lookup query the response would be different based on how = the ISP has registered this IP subnet, IP-LOC suggests making locations = more accurate and controllable through OS and network devices, exactly = like IP addresses (user can change his/her IP address, but router can = also modify the header information - in case it's required). >=20 > ------------------------------- > =20 >=20 > Routing: Policy based routing, based on geo-location, like routing = predefined traffic through certain server or path, for different = purposes (security, manageability, serviceability like choosing = language, or routing traffic to specific cashing or proxy server based = on country .. etc) >=20 > ------------------------------- > =20 >=20 > Copyright law: It happens when certain media/web content is not = allowed in certain countries due to copyright law, the current method of = determining locations is not accurate at all, on other hand, If layer-7 = application to be used then the user might be able to manipulate the = location field, in this case (if it=92s required in future) the ISP can = tag traffic with country/city more accurately as traffic passes through = ISP=92s boarder routers. >=20 > ------------------------------- > =20 > Maps, navigation, emergency calls and many other services will be also = enhanced with accurate locations. > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > CURRENT ARGUMENTS AGAINST THIS IDEA: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > =93Adding GPS position to every IPv6 header would add a lot of = overhead=94 > =20 > Response: It does not have to be in every IPv6 header, only when there = is location update, also the host should have the option of not to send = location updates. > =20 > ------------------------------- > =20 > =93What about privacy?=94 > =20 > Response: User should have the option of not sending location updates. = User should also have the ability to set location to all zeros, in this = case no router will modify the location field and user loses the = location-based services. > =20 > If it=92s router-to-router link, then no need to be worried about = privacy as such information usually configured on a separate network. > =20 > -------------------------------- > =20 > =93a good alternative would be to create application layer protocols = that could request and send GPS positions=94 > =20 > Response: the layer-7 location request will not be detected by layer-3 = devices (Routers), I am assuming that in the future, GPS capability will = be added to the router itself (just like smart phones), features like = packet marking and classification based on geo-location will be required = to enforce the new geo-location policies. > =20 > -------------------------------- > =20 > =93For location-based routing protocols: Why would you want this? = Geographical location isn't actually that important a metric for = routing; what you care about there is *topological* location, how far I = am away from you in terms of hops or latency=94 > =20 > Response: For shortest path maybe yes, hops or latency is important, = not for policy-based routing, in our case you might want to do = location-based routing, like, routing traffic coming from French = speaking users (in multi-language country like Canada) to google.fr > =20 > --------------------------------- > =20 > =93For geolocation-based ACLs: you have the problem that if the = geolocation is attached by the endpoint, then it can't be trusted, since = the endpoint would lie to get past the ACL. If it's attached by a = router, the ACL needs to have proof that the router attached it (and not = the endpoint), which means that you would need a signed geolocation = header=94 > =20 > Response: You could have the router modify the location field anyways, = just like L3 QoS fields, if you don't trust the host, so no need for = encryption or security, additionally, ACL is not only for security, it = could be used for routing, QoS ..etc, so the host will not always has = the motivation to manipulate the location field. > =20 > --------------------------------- > =20 > =93Why can=92t you simply implement rules related to geo-locations = statically on the network device (router, firewall .. etc)?=94 > =20 > Response: To enforce new geo-location policies automatically, let=92s = assume that a mobile router (like a mobile BTS in a GSM network) moved = from city-x to city-y, and according to city-x regulations VoIP calls = over GSM network is allowed, but city-y regulations do not allow that. = Now the topology may reflect same network metrics in both cities but = there is no rule that triggers configuration change based on = geo-location. > =20 >=20 > --------------------------------- > =20 >=20 > =20 > What do you think? > =20 > =20 > Author/Contact Information: > =20 > Ammar J. Salih > Baghdad, Iraq > =20 > Phone: +964 770 533 0306 > Email: [email protected] > =20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > [email protected] > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_E54385E1-BE28-44C1-9CBC-3E927D8A899D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; = ">Ammar,<div><br></div><div>Instead of adding GeoLoc information in an = IPv6 Extension Header, you may wish to take a look at past & current = attempts to *potentially* encode such information in the DNS. The = most recent proposal to do so is the following:</div><div><a = href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr-03">http= ://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr-03</a></div><div>Tak= e a look at Appendix A for specific encoding examples that are possible = within the DNS, with currently shipping BIND 9. I base this on = production deployment experience of encoding IP prefixes in the reverse = DNS tree, as per draft-gersch, although *not* for geolocation = information, but rather for SRO (Secure Route Origin) RR's. If = you're interested in draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr, it is targeted = at the DNSOP WG of the IETF, so you may wish to subscribe to that = mailing list and discuss it over there.</div><div><br></div><div>Lastly, = I would note that the above complements RFC 1876 & RFC 2317 by = providing a nomenclature for "better" encoding of VLSM (Variable Length = Subnet Mask) IP prefixes in the reverse DNS = tree.</div><div><br></div><div>-shane</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><= div><br><div><div>On Nov 10, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Ammar Salih <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" = vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"font-family: 'Source Code Pro'; font-size: = medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: = -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"WordSection1" = style=3D"page: WordSection1; "><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: = rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hello IETF, based on my discussions with both ipv6 = and geopriv teams, I=92ve written the below document to summarize few = ideas.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: = rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Is it possible to publish this on IETF website? even = if it will not be implemented now, at least for documentation and = requesting feedback from the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span = style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); = "> </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; = line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, = 125); ">Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, = sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Ammar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier = New'; ">Ammar J. Salih<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: = 'Courier New'; ">Baghdad, = Iraq <o:p></o:p= ></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: = normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">October 30, = 2012<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Title: = IP-LOC<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> = &n= bsp; <o:p></o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center; "><b><span = style=3D"font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Adding GPS = location to IPv6 header<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center; "><b><span style=3D"font-size: = 14pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "> </span></b></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; ">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span= ></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> This document describes IP-LOC, an extension to IPv6 = header which suggests adding GPS coordinates, as the current method of = determining the location of IP traffic is through IP address = registration database, which is not very accurate as it depends on how = the ISP registers its IP subnets, that is normally done in a = country/city format.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: = 'Courier New'; "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier = New'; ">It also assumes that in the future, GPS capability will be added = to the router itself (just like smart phones) and packet marking and = classification based on geo-location will be = required.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">QoS, = firewall and routing based on geo-location will be highly required when = mobile routers move from one geo-location to another which has different = policy.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Benefits = of adding GPS location to IPv6 header = (IP-LOC)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = ">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier = New'; "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><span style=3D"">Web Services: getting more accurate = locations will enhance many services provided by the web, like targeted = commercials (for example, I can get Ads regarding restaurants available = in my neighborhoods instead of all restaurants in the city), another = good example would be webpage=92s language, my language will be detected = more accurately based on my area rather than my country, as there are = many countries with more than one popular language, not mentioning that = many ip registrations does not even reflect the traffic originating = country.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><span style=3D"">Information accuracy and control: = Nowadays, locations are assigned to IP addresses without user awareness = or control, every time a user performs ip-lookup query the response = would be different based on how the ISP has registered this IP subnet, = IP-LOC suggests making locations more accurate and controllable through = OS and network devices, exactly like IP addresses (user can change = his/her IP address, but router can also modify the header information - = in case it's required).<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D""> </span></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span = style=3D"">Routing: Policy based routing, based on geo-location, like = routing predefined traffic through certain server or path, for different = purposes (security, manageability, serviceability like choosing = language, or routing traffic to specific cashing or proxy server based = on country .. etc)<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D""> </span></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span = style=3D"">Copyright law: It happens when certain media/web content is = not allowed in certain countries due to copyright law, the current = method of determining locations is not accurate at all, on other hand, = If layer-7 application to be used then the user might be able to = manipulate the location field, in this case (if it=92s required in = future) the ISP can tag traffic with country/city more accurately as = traffic passes through ISP=92s boarder = routers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Maps, navigation, emergency = calls and many other services will be also enhanced with accurate = locations.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></p><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">CURRENT = ARGUMENTS AGAINST THIS IDEA:<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = ">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = Consolas; ">=93Adding GPS position to every IPv6 header would add a lot = of overhead=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = Consolas; ">Response: It does not have to be in every IPv6 header, only = when there is location update, also the host should have the option of = not to send location updates.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in = 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93What about = privacy?=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = Consolas; ">Response: User should have the option of not sending = location updates. User should also have the ability to set location to = all zeros, in this case no router will modify the location field and = user loses the location-based services.<o:p></o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">If it=92s = router-to-router link, then no need to be worried about privacy as such = information usually configured on a separate = network.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = Consolas; ">--------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93a good = alternative would be to create application layer protocols that could = request and send GPS positions=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Response: the layer-7 = location request will not be detected by layer-3 devices (Routers), I am = assuming that in the future, GPS capability will be added to the router = itself (just like smart phones), features like packet marking and = classification based on geo-location will be required to enforce the new = geo-location policies.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">--------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93For location-based = routing protocols: Why would you want this? Geographical location = isn't actually that important a metric for routing; what you care about = there is *topological* location, how far I am away from you in terms of = hops or latency=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Response: For shortest path = maybe yes, hops or latency is important, not for policy-based routing, = in our case you might want to do location-based routing, like, routing = traffic coming from French speaking users (in multi-language country = like Canada) to<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"http://google.fr/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: = underline; ">google.fr</a><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">---------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93For geolocation-based = ACLs: you have the problem that if the geolocation is attached by the = endpoint, then it can't be trusted, since the endpoint would lie to get = past the ACL. If it's attached by a router, the ACL needs to have = proof that the router attached it (and not the endpoint), which means = that you would need a signed geolocation header=94<o:p></o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Response: You = could have the router modify the location field anyways, just like L3 = QoS fields, if you don't trust the host, so no need for encryption or = security, additionally, ACL is not only for security, it could be = used for routing, QoS ..etc, so the host will not always has the = motivation to manipulate the location field.<o:p></o:p></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">---------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93Why can=92t you simply = implement rules related to geo-locations statically on the network = device (router, firewall .. etc)?=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin:= 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Response: To enforce new = geo-location policies automatically, let=92s assume that a mobile router = (like a mobile BTS in a GSM network) moved from city-x to city-y, and = according to city-x regulations VoIP calls over GSM network is allowed, = but city-y regulations do not allow that. Now the topology may reflect = same network metrics in both cities but there is no rule that triggers = configuration change based on geo-location.<o:p></o:p></div><p = class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; = ">---------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"= style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: = 'Courier New'; ">What do you think?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: = 'Courier New'; "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in = 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier = New'; ">Author/Contact Information:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: = 'Courier New'; "> Ammar J. Salih<o:p></o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; "> Baghdad, = Iraq<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; = line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; = "> Phone: +964 770 533 0306<o:p></o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; = font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; "> Email:<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: purple; = text-decoration: underline; = ">[email protected]</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><p = class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = "><o:p> </o:p></p></div>---------------------------------------------= -----------------------<br>IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<br><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: = underline; ">[email protected]</a><br>Administrative Requests:<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6" style=3D"color: = purple; text-decoration: underline; = ">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6</a><br>----------------------= ----------------------------------------------</div></blockquote></div><br= ></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_E54385E1-BE28-44C1-9CBC-3E927D8A899D-- --===============5271284499038524426== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list [email protected] Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============5271284499038524426==--