Re: Adding GPS location to IPv6 header

Shane Amante <[email protected]> Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:08:52 -0700
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.ipv6,gmane.ietf.geopriv
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Ammar,

Instead of adding GeoLoc information in an IPv6 Extension Header, you =
may wish to take a look at past & current attempts to *potentially* =
encode such information in the DNS.  The most recent proposal to do so =
is the following:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr-03
Take a look at Appendix A for specific encoding examples that are =
possible within the DNS, with currently shipping BIND 9.  I base this on =
production deployment experience of encoding IP prefixes in the reverse =
DNS tree, as per draft-gersch, although *not* for geolocation =
information, but rather for SRO (Secure Route Origin) RR's.  If you're =
interested in draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr, it is targeted at the =
DNSOP WG of the IETF, so you may wish to subscribe to that mailing list =
and discuss it over there.

Lastly, I would note that the above complements RFC 1876 & RFC 2317 by =
providing a nomenclature for "better" encoding of VLSM (Variable Length =
Subnet Mask) IP prefixes in the reverse DNS tree.

-shane



On Nov 10, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Ammar Salih <[email protected]> =
wrote:
> Hello IETF, based on my discussions with both ipv6 and geopriv teams, =
I=92ve written the below document to summarize few ideas.
>=20
> Is it possible to publish this on IETF website? even if it will not be =
implemented now, at least for documentation and requesting feedback from =
the community.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Many thanks.
>=20
> Ammar
>=20
> =20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Ammar J. Salih
> Baghdad, Iraq         =20
> October 30, 2012
> Title: IP-LOC
> =20
> =20
>                     =20
> Adding GPS location to IPv6 header
> =20
> Abstract:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =20
>    This document describes IP-LOC, an extension to IPv6 header which =
suggests adding GPS coordinates, as the current method of determining =
the location of IP traffic is through IP address registration database, =
which is not very accurate as it depends on how the ISP registers its IP =
subnets, that is normally done in a country/city format.
> =20
> It also assumes that in the future, GPS capability will be added to =
the router itself (just like smart phones) and packet marking and =
classification based on geo-location will be required.
> =20
> QoS, firewall and routing based on geo-location will be highly =
required when mobile routers move from one geo-location to another which =
has different policy.
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Benefits of adding GPS location to IPv6 header (IP-LOC)
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =20
> =20
> Web Services: getting more accurate locations will enhance many =
services provided by the web, like targeted commercials (for example, I =
can get Ads regarding restaurants available in my neighborhoods instead =
of all restaurants in the city), another good example would be webpage=92s=
 language, my language will be detected more accurately based on my area =
rather than my country, as there are many countries with more than one =
popular language, not mentioning that many ip registrations does not =
even reflect the traffic originating country.
>=20
> -------------------------------
> =20
> Information accuracy and control: Nowadays, locations are assigned to =
IP addresses without user awareness or control, every time a user =
performs ip-lookup query the response would be different based on how =
the ISP has registered this IP subnet, IP-LOC suggests making locations =
more accurate and controllable through OS and network devices, exactly =
like IP addresses (user can change his/her IP address, but router can =
also modify the header information - in case it's required).
>=20
> -------------------------------
> =20
>=20
> Routing: Policy based routing, based on geo-location, like routing =
predefined traffic through certain server or path, for different =
purposes (security, manageability, serviceability like choosing =
language, or routing traffic to specific cashing or proxy server based =
on country .. etc)
>=20
> -------------------------------
> =20
>=20
> Copyright law: It happens when certain media/web content is not =
allowed in certain countries due to copyright law, the current method of =
determining locations is not accurate at all, on other hand, If layer-7 =
application to be used then the user might be able to manipulate the =
location field, in this case (if it=92s required in future) the ISP can =
tag traffic with country/city more accurately as traffic passes through =
ISP=92s boarder routers.
>=20
> -------------------------------
> =20
> Maps, navigation, emergency calls and many other services will be also =
enhanced with accurate locations.
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
>=20
> CURRENT ARGUMENTS AGAINST THIS IDEA:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> =93Adding GPS position to every IPv6 header would add a lot of =
overhead=94
> =20
> Response: It does not have to be in every IPv6 header, only when there =
is location update, also the host should have the option of not to send =
location updates.
> =20
> -------------------------------
> =20
> =93What about privacy?=94
> =20
> Response: User should have the option of not sending location updates. =
User should also have the ability to set location to all zeros, in this =
case no router will modify the location field and user loses the =
location-based services.
> =20
> If it=92s router-to-router link, then no need to be worried about =
privacy as such information usually configured on a separate network.
> =20
> --------------------------------
> =20
> =93a good alternative would be to create application layer protocols =
that could request and send GPS positions=94
> =20
> Response: the layer-7 location request will not be detected by layer-3 =
devices (Routers), I am assuming that in the future, GPS capability will =
be added to the router itself (just like smart phones), features like =
packet marking and classification based on geo-location will be required =
to enforce the new geo-location policies.
> =20
> --------------------------------
> =20
> =93For location-based routing protocols: Why would you want this?  =
Geographical location isn't actually that important a metric for =
routing; what you care about there is *topological* location, how far I =
am away from you in terms of hops or latency=94
> =20
> Response: For shortest path maybe yes, hops or latency is important, =
not for policy-based routing, in our case you might want to do =
location-based routing, like, routing traffic coming from French =
speaking users (in multi-language country like Canada) to google.fr
> =20
> ---------------------------------
> =20
> =93For geolocation-based ACLs: you have the problem that if the =
geolocation is attached by the endpoint, then it can't be trusted, since =
the endpoint would lie to get past the ACL.  If it's attached by a =
router, the ACL needs to have proof that the router attached it (and not =
the endpoint), which means that you would need a signed geolocation =
header=94
> =20
> Response: You could have the router modify the location field anyways, =
just like L3 QoS fields, if you don't trust the host, so no need for =
encryption or security, additionally,  ACL is not only for security, it =
could be used for routing, QoS ..etc, so the host will not always has =
the motivation to manipulate the location field.
> =20
> ---------------------------------
> =20
> =93Why can=92t you simply implement rules related to geo-locations =
statically on the network device (router, firewall .. etc)?=94
> =20
> Response: To enforce new geo-location policies automatically, let=92s =
assume that a mobile router (like a mobile BTS in a GSM network) moved =
from city-x to city-y, and according to city-x regulations VoIP calls =
over GSM network is allowed, but city-y regulations do not allow that. =
Now the topology may reflect same network metrics in both cities but =
there is no rule that triggers configuration change based on =
geo-location.
> =20
>=20
> ---------------------------------
> =20
>=20
> =20
> What do you think?
> =20
> =20
> Author/Contact Information:
> =20
>    Ammar J. Salih
>    Baghdad, Iraq
> =20
>    Phone: +964 770 533 0306
>    Email: [email protected]
> =20
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> [email protected]
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Ammar,<div><br></div><div>Instead of adding GeoLoc information in an =
IPv6 Extension Header, you may wish to take a look at past &amp; current =
attempts to *potentially* encode such information in the DNS. &nbsp;The =
most recent proposal to do so is the following:</div><div><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr-03">http=
://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr-03</a></div><div>Tak=
e a look at Appendix A for specific encoding examples that are possible =
within the DNS, with currently shipping BIND 9. &nbsp;I base this on =
production deployment experience of encoding IP prefixes in the reverse =
DNS tree, as per draft-gersch, although *not* for geolocation =
information, but rather for SRO (Secure Route Origin) RR's. &nbsp;If =
you're interested in&nbsp;draft-gersch-dnsop-revdns-cidr, it is targeted =
at the DNSOP WG of the IETF, so you may wish to subscribe to that =
mailing list and discuss it over there.</div><div><br></div><div>Lastly, =
I would note that the above complements RFC 1876 &amp; RFC 2317 by =
providing a nomenclature for "better" encoding of VLSM (Variable Length =
Subnet Mask) IP prefixes in the reverse DNS =
tree.</div><div><br></div><div>-shane</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><=
div><br><div><div>On Nov 10, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Ammar Salih &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" =
vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"font-family: 'Source Code Pro'; font-size: =
medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; "><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hello IETF, based on my discussions with both ipv6 =
and geopriv teams, I=92ve written the below document to summarize few =
ideas.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Is it possible to publish this on IETF website? even =
if it will not be implemented now, at least for documentation and =
requesting feedback from the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; =
line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125); ">Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Ammar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New'; ">Ammar J. Salih<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; ">Baghdad, =
Iraq&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: =
normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">October 30, =
2012<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Title: =
IP-LOC<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center; "><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Adding GPS =
location to IPv6 header<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center; "><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
14pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;</span></b></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New'; ">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span=
></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document describes IP-LOC, an extension to IPv6 =
header which suggests adding GPS coordinates, as the current method of =
determining the location of IP traffic is through IP address =
registration database, which is not very accurate as it depends on how =
the ISP registers its IP subnets, that is normally done in a =
country/city format.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New'; ">It also assumes that in the future, GPS capability will be added =
to the router itself (just like smart phones) and packet marking and =
classification based on geo-location will be =
required.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">QoS, =
firewall and routing based on geo-location will be highly required when =
mobile routers move from one geo-location to another which has different =
policy.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Benefits =
of adding GPS location to IPv6 header =
(IP-LOC)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New'; ">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><span style=3D"">Web Services: getting more accurate =
locations will enhance many services provided by the web, like targeted =
commercials (for example, I can get Ads regarding restaurants available =
in my neighborhoods instead of all restaurants in the city), another =
good example would be webpage=92s language, my language will be detected =
more accurately based on my area rather than my country, as there are =
many countries with more than one popular language, not mentioning that =
many ip registrations does not even reflect the traffic originating =
country.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><span style=3D"">Information accuracy and control: =
Nowadays, locations are assigned to IP addresses without user awareness =
or control, every time a user performs ip-lookup query the response =
would be different based on how the ISP has registered this IP subnet, =
IP-LOC suggests making locations more accurate and controllable through =
OS and network devices, exactly like IP addresses (user can change =
his/her IP address, but router can also modify the header information - =
in case it's required).<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span =
style=3D"">Routing: Policy based routing, based on geo-location, like =
routing predefined traffic through certain server or path, for different =
purposes (security, manageability, serviceability like choosing =
language, or routing traffic to specific cashing or proxy server based =
on country .. etc)<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span =
style=3D"">Copyright law: It happens when certain media/web content is =
not allowed in certain countries due to copyright law, the current =
method of determining locations is not accurate at all, on other hand, =
If layer-7 application to be used then the user might be able to =
manipulate the location field, in this case (if it=92s required in =
future) the ISP can tag traffic with country/city more accurately as =
traffic passes through ISP=92s boarder =
routers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Maps, navigation, emergency =
calls and many other services will be also enhanced with accurate =
locations.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">CURRENT =
ARGUMENTS AGAINST THIS IDEA:<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas; ">=93Adding GPS position to every IPv6 header would add a lot =
of overhead=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas; ">Response: It does not have to be in every IPv6 header, only =
when there is location update, also the host should have the option of =
not to send location updates.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93What about =
privacy?=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas; ">Response: User should have the option of not sending =
location updates. User should also have the ability to set location to =
all zeros, in this case no router will modify the location field and =
user loses the location-based services.<o:p></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">If it=92s =
router-to-router link, then no need to be worried about privacy as such =
information usually configured on a separate =
network.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas; ">--------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93a good =
alternative would be to create application layer protocols that could =
request and send GPS positions=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Response: the layer-7 =
location request will not be detected by layer-3 devices (Routers), I am =
assuming that in the future, GPS capability will be added to the router =
itself (just like smart phones), features like packet marking and =
classification based on geo-location will be required to enforce the new =
geo-location policies.<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">--------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93For location-based =
routing protocols: Why would you want this?&nbsp; Geographical location =
isn't actually that important a metric for routing; what you care about =
there is *topological* location, how far I am away from you in terms of =
hops or latency=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Response: For shortest path =
maybe yes, hops or latency is important, not for policy-based routing, =
in our case you might want to do location-based routing, like, routing =
traffic coming from French speaking users (in multi-language country =
like Canada) to<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://google.fr/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline; ">google.fr</a><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">---------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93For geolocation-based =
ACLs: you have the problem that if the geolocation is attached by the =
endpoint, then it can't be trusted, since the endpoint would lie to get =
past the ACL.&nbsp; If it's attached by a router, the ACL needs to have =
proof that the router attached it (and not the endpoint), which means =
that you would need a signed geolocation header=94<o:p></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Response: You =
could have the router modify the location field anyways, just like L3 =
QoS fields, if you don't trust the host, so no need for encryption or =
security, additionally,&nbsp; ACL is not only for security, it could be =
used for routing, QoS ..etc, so the host will not always has the =
motivation to manipulate the location field.<o:p></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">---------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">=93Why can=92t you simply =
implement rules related to geo-locations statically on the network =
device (router, firewall .. etc)?=94<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Response: To enforce new =
geo-location policies automatically, let=92s assume that a mobile router =
(like a mobile BTS in a GSM network) moved from city-x to city-y, and =
according to city-x regulations VoIP calls over GSM network is allowed, =
but city-y regulations do not allow that. Now the topology may reflect =
same network metrics in both cities but there is no rule that triggers =
configuration change based on geo-location.<o:p></o:p></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; =
">---------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; ">What do you think?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New'; ">Author/Contact Information:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; Ammar J. Salih<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; Baghdad, =
Iraq<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">&nbsp;&nbsp; Phone: +964 770 533 0306<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; Email:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">[email protected]</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 17px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div>---------------------------------------------=
-----------------------<br>IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline; ">[email protected]</a><br>Administrative Requests:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6</a><br>----------------------=
----------------------------------------------</div></blockquote></div><br=
></div></body></html>=

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