RE: draft-ietf-impp-cpim-pidf-06.txt (was: WG Last Call on multip le documents (deadline Jan 12))

PIDF, and the IMPP WG overall, are attempting to define a minimal set of
tools for presence. Personally, I think OPEN and CLOSED are useful presence
information - there is richer information that could be supplied for
presence in addition to OPEN and CLOSED, but OPEN and CLOSED themselves are
not useless, they are just minimal. One reason to define a minimal set is
for the purposes of interoperability - richer status sets that extend PIDF
can be used in conjunction with OPEN and CLOSED to provide baseline
compatibility with clients that do not support your status extensions.

A <status> of OPEN has an obvious meaning to me in the context of, say,
telephony. From RFC2778:

   OPEN and CLOSED may also be applicable to other
   COMMUNICATION MEANS -- OPEN mapping to some state meaning "available"
   or "open for business" while CLOSED means "unavailable" or "closed to
   business."

This concept is not specific to IM, and IM is not the only communication
means envisioned by RFC2778. I just don't see how this argument is tenable.
Numerous requirements in RFC2779 motivate our direction.

Jon Peterson
NeuStar, Inc.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thanos Diacakis [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:10 AM
> To: Peterson, Jon; 'Dave Crocker'
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: draft-ietf-impp-cpim-pidf-06.txt (was: WG Last Call on
> multip le documents (deadline Jan 12))
> 
> 
> I'm not doubting that they *can* be applied.  I'm say they are not *being*
> applied.
> 
> Not having defined their meanings, each person can have a 
> totally different
> interpretation of them.
> 
> So, in the context of the documents that this group is 
> producing, "Status"
> is totally specific to IM.  Nothing in there gives it any 
> meaning in any
> other context.
> 
> Thanos
> ---
> Thanos Diacakis
> Openwave Systems
> [email protected]
> +1-303 385 6705
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peterson, Jon" <[email protected]>
> To: "'Thanos Diacakis'" <[email protected]>; 
> "'Dave Crocker'"
> <[email protected]>
> Cc: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:00 PM
> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-impp-cpim-pidf-06.txt (was: WG Last 
> Call on multip
> le documents (deadline Jan 12))
> 
> 
> >
> > If you honestly believe that the concepts of OPEN and CLOSED have no
> > applicability to any other communications system than IM, 
> then I'm not
> sure
> > what I can say to persuade you. The PIDF document derives from the
> > requirements set forward in RFC2779, which do make note of IM, and
> > consequently the way that OPEN and CLOSED are defined 
> mentions IM. But the
> > contention that OPEN and CLOSED are, as you say, 'total 
> specific' to IM
> > seems very dubious to me give the clear applicability of 
> these concepts to
> > telephony, Internet gaming, video, and so on. What these 
> concepts mean for
> > IM is 'you are able to receive communications' or not. I'm 
> not sure how
> > their application to other forms of communication is ambiguous.
> >
> > Jon Peterson
> > NeuStar, Inc.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Thanos Diacakis [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:23 AM
> > > To: Peterson, Jon; 'Dave Crocker'
> > > Cc: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: draft-ietf-impp-cpim-pidf-06.txt (was: WG 
> Last Call on
> > > multip le documents (deadline Jan 12))
> > >
> > >
> > > Jon Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, as I suggested, we had a thread then about how 
> <status>, for
> > > example,
> > > > was not specific to IM at all. Nor is the concept of
> > > <contact>. Presence
> > > > concerns communications status, and the disposition of 
> a presentity
> > > towards
> > > > particular avenues of communication. I think the concepts
> > > of <status> and
> > > > <contact> are equally applicable to voice, video, Internet
> > > gaming, and
> > > what
> > > > have you. So I don't think these elements really are
> > > specific to IM. In
> > > > other words, I think <status> and <contact> are valid
> > > normative concepts
> > > for
> > > > presence.
> > >
> > > Status, as defined in PIDF, is *totally* specific to IM, as
> > > the only values
> > > for status that are defined are IM specific, i.e. we do not
> > > state what they
> > > mean in a different context.
> > >
> > > Thanos
> > > ---
> > > Thanos Diacakis
> > > Openwave Systems
> > > [email protected]
> > > +1-303 385 6705
> > >
> > >
> >
> 



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