RE: RE: Channel Types in RFMIBv2 (was RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for assigning modulation profiles to upstream channels)
Minnie Lu <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.ipcdn |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Hi, Dan, In the original proposal of Greg and Eduardo (also in OSS2-O-03092), there are more rules. Please see Greg and Eduardo's original proposal for more details. Here please allow me to list the ones in OSS2-O-03092. (I added the word 'active' in the first sentence of the original OSS2-O-03092.) All the active entries in a modulation profile (i.e. all active entries that share a common docsIfCmtsModIndex) MUST have the same value of docsIfCmtsModChannelType. When assigning a modulation profile to an upstream channel, the value of docsIfUpChannelType and the value of docsIfCmtsModChannelType MUST match. If a modulation profile is in use by one or more upstream channels, the value of docsIfCmtsModChannelType MUST NOT be changed. Also, if a modulation profile is in use by one or more upstream channels, it MUST NOT be destroyed. Before destroying a modulation profile, or changing the value of docsIfCmtsModChannelType for a profile, the user will need to ensure that it is not currently in use by any upstream channel. The maximum number of modulation profiles that a CMTS can support in docsIfCmtsModulationTable is vendor -specific. Now we are discussing how and when to enforce it as cleaner and easier way. Thanks! Minnie At 01:26 PM 10/10/2003 -0400, Dan Rice wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Greg White [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:56 PM >To: Dan Rice; Minnie Lu >Cc: [email protected]; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; >[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] >Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: Channel Types in RFMIBv2 (was RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : >rules for assigning modulation profiles to upstream channels) > >What I had interpreted Minnie's suggestion to be was that ChannelType >consistency was enforced across all modulation profile rows with a >Status of 'active', regardless of whether they were assigned to an >upstream channel or not. Setting Status to 'notInService' is not >allowed for propfiles assigned to an upstream channel, nor is changing >ChannelType. > >So, the operation Minnie suggested only applies to profiles that have >been created and set 'active', but are not assigned to any upstream >channel. > >Does that clarify? >[DJR] Yes that sounds good. Thank You Greg >Can I also extend your answer to infer one or both of the following: > > 1) Changing of the channel type is not allowed for any set of >iuc rows while their modulation profile is assigned to an active >upstream channel. > 2) Changing any of the modulation profile attributes is not >allowed while it is assigned to an active upstream channel? > >-Greg > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dan Rice @ Stargus >Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:59 AM >To: Greg White; Minnie Lu >Cc: [email protected]; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; >[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] >Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: Channel Types in RFMIBv2 (was RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : >rules for assigning modulation profiles to upstream channels) > > >Sorry for chiming in 11th hour, but want to make sure I understand >minnie's suggestion for active entries. I believe the suggestion is >that for active entries you change the row status to not in service. >What would we expect to happen to the upstream currently assigned this >modulation profile while it is notInService? Would the existing active >assignment continue to be valid for the upstream using it until all IUC >rows became active again with the changes in them? > >Also if the changes are to docsIfCmtsModChannelType wouldn't you have to >edit all IUC rows before checking to see if this is valid? I guess when >you started going in and making each IUC active that would be the point >to check it? Could you guarantee that all IUCs are committed at the >same time since they would "immediately" be committed to the active >upstream channel entries with pointers to the docsIfCmtsModIndex? > >Thanks for the clarifications. - Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Greg White [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:20 PM >To: Minnie Lu >Cc: [email protected]; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; >[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] >Subject: [ipcdn] RE: Channel Types in RFMIBv2 (was RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : >rules for assigning modulation profiles to upstream channels) > >That sounds like a workable alternative. If no one disagrees, I will >make that change to the proposal. > >-Greg > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Minnie Lu [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:09 PM >To: Greg White >Cc: Minnie Lu; [email protected]; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; >[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] >Subject: RE: Channel Types in RFMIBv2 (was RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for >assigning modulation profiles to upstream channels) > > >Hi, Greg, > >Then how about enforce this rule for "active" entries ? So in the case >you >mentioned, user can change the row status to notInService first or at >the >same time changing the channel type. When user changed all the entries' > >channel type to be the same, use can put the entries in active again. I > >personally think it affects a lot when the channel type is changed, so a > >little more steps should be ok. To me, if there is an error, better >catch >it as earlier as possible. > >"All the active entries in a modulation profile (i.e. all active entries > >that share a >common docsIfCmtsModIndex) MUST have the same value of >docsIfCmtsModChannelType." > >Thanks a lot ! >Minnie > >At 02:12 PM 10/8/2003 -0600, Greg White wrote: > >Minnie, > > > >I didn't want to prevent a user from changing their mind regarding > >channel type when creating a new modulation profile. Suppose you > >started out setting channel type to atdma and, after completing a few > >IUCs, realized that you really wanted tdmaAndAtdma. Rather than make > >you start from scratch (or do a simultaneous set across all IUCs), you > >could just update the channel type on each row. > > > >I understand your view as well. > > > >If there is a consensus to change the text, I am not strongly opposed. > > > >-Greg > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Minnie Lu [mailto:[email protected]] > >Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:48 PM > >To: Greg White > >Cc: [email protected]; Minnie Lu; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; > >[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] > >Subject: Re: Channel Types in RFMIBv2 (was RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for > >assigning modulation profiles to upstream channels) > > > > > >Hi, Greg, > > > > Thanks a lot to you and Eduardo for this proposal ! > > > >docsIfCmtsModChannelType : > > "... > > In order to be considered a valid modulation profile for > > assignment to an upstream channel, all entries (IUCs) in > > the modulation profile must have the same channel type." > > > > In addition to do the checking at the time the modulation profile >is > >assigned to some upstream, I think that the checking could also be done > >when user create/modify an entry of docsIfCmtsModulationEntry even the > >modulation profile is not assigned to any upstreams. So the error >could > >be > >caught earlier. So I would suggest to enhance the description as the > >ECO > >(OSS2-O-03092) > > > >"All the entries in a modulation profile (i.e. all entries that share a > >common docsIfCmtsModIndex) MUST have the same value of > >docsIfCmtsModChannelType." > > > >If I miss anything, please let me know. > >Thanks a lot! > >Minnie > > > >At 04:22 PM 10/7/2003 -0600, Greg White wrote: > > >All, > > > > > >As a final issue to resolve in the RFMIBv2 before draft-08, I would > >like > > >to propose that we complete the clarification of the relationship > >between > > >the ChannelType parameters in modulation profiles and upstream > >channels. > > > > > >There is currently an ECO (OSS2-O-03092) written by Minnie Lu which > > >clarifies part of the relationship by adding requirements to the OSSI > > >spec. I would like to suggest that we propagate those requirements >to > >the > > >MIB descriptions. > > > > > >Also, I would like to propose that we make docsIfUpChannelType a > >read-only > > >object for active rows in the Upstream Channel Table. The value > >reported > > >would be taken from the modulation profile pointed to by > > >docsIfUpChannelModulationProfile. > > > > > >Attached is a detailed proposal that Eduardo and I wrote to frame the > >issue. > > > > > >In order not to delay draft-08, we would like to have consensus from > >the > > >community and working group by this Friday, October 10. Please >review > >the > > >attached proposal and provide comments. > > > > > >Many thanks, > > >Greg > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > > >Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 5:59 PM > > >To: Minnie Lu > > >Cc: DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; [email protected]; Greg White; > > >[email protected]; Minnie Lu; Owner DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List > > >Subject: RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for assigning modulation profiles to > > >upstream channels > > > > > >Minnie, > > > I am emphathetic to your concerns. I ran across the same >issue > > > > > while implementing cross-checks for the 2.0 modulation and upstream > >data. > > > I found it made the code far simpler to lead the user down the path >of > > > > > "define the channel type first, then build everything around that" > >kind > > > of configuration model. I am then able to check the settings of the > >other > > > parameters against the channel type. After a modulation profile or > > > upstream channel has already been provisioned, changing just the > >channel > > > type becomes difficult, as many parameters are incompatible with >other > > > > > channel types. I allow it, but don't recommend it. > > > > > >My 2 cents, > > >David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Minnie Lu <[email protected]> > > > > > >08/25/2003 07:01 PM > > > > > > To: "Greg White" <[email protected]> > > > cc: <[email protected]>, "Minnie Lu" > > > <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, ><[email protected]>, > > > > > "DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List" <[email protected]>, "Owner >DOCSIS > >OSS > > > Majordomo List" <[email protected]> > > > Fax to: > > > Subject: RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for assigning > >modulation > > > profiles to upstream channels > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi, Greg, > > > > > > Please see my response inline. > > > Thanks a lot ! > > > Minnie > > >At 02:29 PM 8/25/2003 -0600, Greg White wrote: > > > >The email exchange between Steve and Alberto notwithstanding, I >think > >it > > > >does make sense to enforce that all entries in a modulation profile > >(i.e. > > > >all entries that share a common docsIfCmtsModIndex) have the same > > > >ModChannelType. Also, based on the exchange here it seems that >there > >is > > > >some support for the additional restriction that UpChannelType and > > > >ModChannelType always match. With those two restrictions, there > >clearly > > > >is a need for all defined values of ModChannelType. > > > > > > > >Since this has been a point of confusion at least twice now, does > >anyone > > > >have a concern with making these two items part of the >specification? > > > > > > > > > >[milu]: I agree with you. > > > > > > >A further point, how does the CMTS enforce the match between > >UpChannelType > > > >and ModChannelType? One implementation may automatically change > > > >UpChannelType to match ModChannelType whenever > > > >docsIfUpChannelModulationProfile is set. Another might reject the > >change > > > >if the two don't already match, and require the use of the > > > >docsIfUpChannelCloneFrom mechanism to change the channel type. I'd > >argue > > > >that the first implementation makes more sense, and ought to be >made > >a > > > >SHOULD in the spec, but I'd like to hear other views. > > > > > > > > > >[milu]: I think this needs to be thought over carefully. How about >the > > >case that some modulation profile is used by some upstream channel, >and > > >user change the modulation profile channel type ? Does it mean that > >the > > >upstream channel type would be changed automatically, too ? If yes, >I > >am > > >afraid that there might be some user who forget the modulation >profile > >is > > >being used and change the channel type without knowing the upstream > >channel > > >type for some upstream channels are changed at the same time. The > > >modulation profile channel type and upstream channel type are in two > > >different MIB tables. > > > > > > Actually, I am always puzzled when the modulation profile is being > >used > > >by some upstream channels, could the modulation profile channel type >be > > >changed ? Maybe this is a confusing point which needs to be >clarified, > >too. > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > > > Minnie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Greg > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > > > >Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 11:07 AM > > > >To: Minnie Lu; [email protected]; [email protected] > > > >Cc: DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; Greg White; [email protected]; Owner > >DOCSIS > > > >OSS Majordomo List > > > >Subject: RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for assigning modulation profiles >to > > > >upstream channels > > > > > > > >Minnie, > > > > Sounds good to me. This would make verifying the >consistency > >of > > > > the data in the modulation profiles and the upstream channels far > >easier. > > > >So, if I understand correctly, this means that all modulation >profile > > > >entries with the same docsIfCmtsModIndex will have to have the same > > > >docsIfCmtsModChannelType. Otherwise, you would not be able to use > >that > > > >modulation profile set on any upstream channel. So, this modulation > > > >profile set with different docsIfCmtsModChannelTypes from an e-mail > >thread > > > >between Alberto and Steve from almost a year ago would be invalid, >no > >? > > > >The way to patch it up would be to make all of the IUCs >tdmaAndAtdma, > > > >correct ? > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >David > > > > > > > >--- end David's e-mail --- > > > >--- start e-mail exchange between Alberto and Steve --- > > > > > > > >Hi Steve > > > > > > > >Sorry for the delay in responding > > > > > > > >Your configuration settings for operation in multiple mode is >correct > >and > > > >will support tdma, tdmaAndAtdma and Atdma. > > > >In tdma only IUCs 9&10 are not used. In mixed mode TLV 5 is used >with > >UCD > > > >type 2 and in DOCSIS 2.0 only case TLV 5 is used with UCD type 29 >and > >IUCs > > > >5&6 are not used. Your interpretation of the spec in the example > >described > > > >is accurate. > > > > > > > >Alberto Campos > > > >[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Steve Malenfant [mailto:[email protected]] > > > >Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:39 AM > > > >To: '[email protected]' > > > >Subject: Correlation between docsIfUpChannelType and > > > >docsIfCmtsModChannelT ype > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We are having some discussion internally here, and would like to > >clarify > > > >things about the modulation profile. > > > >Let's take an example, expecting all parameters are good : > > > > > > > >set IUC 1 docsIfCmtsModChannelType to tdmaAndAtdma. > > > >set IUC 3 docsIfCmtsModChannelType to tdmaAndAtdma. > > > >set IUC 4 docsIfCmtsModChannelType to tdmaAndAtdma. > > > >set IUC 5 docsIfCmtsModChannelType to tdma. > > > >set IUC 6 docsIfCmtsModChannelType to tdma. > > > >set IUC 9 docsIfCmtsModChannelType to Atdma. > > > >set IUC 10 docsIfCmtsModChannelType to Atdma. > > > > > > > >Would this burst profile be good for docsIfUpChannelType tdma, > >tdmaAndAtdma > > > >and Atdma? > > > > > > > >tdma would only use IUC 1,3,4,5 and 6 in TLV 4 inside UCD type 2. > > > >mixed would use IUC 1,3,4,5 and 6 in TLV 4 and IUC 9 and 10 in TLV >5 > >inside > > > >UCD type 2. > > > >Atdma would only use IUC 1,3,4,9 and 10 in TLV 5 inside UCD type >29. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Minnie Lu <[email protected]> > > > >Sent by: [email protected] > > > > > > > >08/21/2003 07:15 PM > > > > > > > > To: [email protected], "Greg White" > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > cc: "DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List" > > > > <[email protected]>, [email protected] > > > > Fax to: > > > > Subject: RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for assigning > >modulation > > > > profiles to upstream channels > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi, David and Greg, > > > > > > > > I like Greg's "Perhaps it is simpler just to require that > >ModChannelType > > > >match UpChannelType.". > > > > > > > > I don't think that "we could just drop tdmaAndAtdma for > > > >ModChannelType". Please keep in mind that when assigning the > >modulation > > > >profile to some upstream via SNMP docsIfUpChannelModulationProfile, > >it uses > > > >only the docsIfModIndex and only one docsIfModIndex can be assigned > >to some > > > >upstream channel. > > > > > > > > If I miss anything, please correct me. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Minnie > > > > > > > >At 10:53 AM 8/21/2003 -0400, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > >Greg, > > > > > IUCs 1, 2, 3, and 4 are used for both tdma and atdma > >channels. > > > > > However, the modulation profiles objects > > > > > docsIfCmtsModByteInterleaverBlockSize and > > > > > docsIfCmtsModByteInterleaverDepth are only valid for atdma > >channels. So, > > > > > if a modulation profile with IUCs 1, 2, 3 and/or 4 had these > >objects > > > set, > > > > > it assumably could not be used on a tdma-only upstream channel. > >Hence, > > > > > the whole purpose of even having ModChannelType - to verify > >consistency > > > > > within the modulation profile - is weakened. This has the > >unintended > > > side > > > > > effect of requiring any assignment of modulation profiles with > >IUCs > > > 1, 2, > > > > > 3, and 4 and ModChannelType equal to tdmaAndAtdma to check to >see > >if the > > > > > Interleaver parameters have been set before assigning it to a > >tdma-only > > > > > upstream channel. Hence, my gripe with tdmaAndAtdma for >modulation > > > > profiles. > > > > > I can't think of any need/requirement for tdmaAndAtdma >for > > > > > modulation profiles that could not be met with a pair of tdma >and > >atdma > > > > > modulation profile. In other words, I don't think allowing > >tdmaAndAtdma > > > > > for ModChannelType really buys us anything. I'm thinking we >could > >just > > > > > drop tdmaAndAtdma for ModChannelType (making it a > > > > > DocsisUpstreamTypeStatus object, perhaps ?) to avoid a lot of > >confusion. > > > > > For the mixed-mode channels, where UpChannelType is > > > tdmaAndAtdma, > > > > > the modulation profile set could look like so: > > > > > > > > > >IUC 1 tdma > > > > >IUC 2 tdma > > > > >IUC 3 tdma > > > > >IUC 4 tdma > > > > >IUC 5 tdma > > > > >IUC 6 tdma > > > > >IUC 9 atdma > > > > >IUC 10 atdma > > > > >IUC 11 atdma > > > > > > > > > >For tdma-only upstream channels, the modulation profile set could > >be: > > > > > > > > > >IUC 1 tdma > > > > >IUC 2 tdma > > > > >IUC 3 tdma > > > > >IUC 4 tdma > > > > >IUC 5 tdma > > > > >IUC 6 tdma > > > > > > > > > >Likewise, for atdma-only upstream channel, the modulation profile > >set > > > > >could be: > > > > > > > > > >IUC 1 atdma > > > > >IUC 2 atdma > > > > >IUC 3 atdma > > > > >IUC 4 atdma > > > > >IUC 9 atdma > > > > >IUC 10 atdma > > > > >IUC 11 atdma > > > > > > > > > >As far as I know, there is no hard limit on the number of the > >modulation > > > > >profile sets that the CMTS and CM can support. I'm really liking > >your > > > "not > > > > >sure the benefits of flexibility outweigh disadvantages..." line >of > > > > >thinking. tdmaAndAtdma for modulation profiles has my head > >spinning. > > > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > >David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Greg White" <[email protected]> > > > > >Sent by: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > >08/20/2003 07:35 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: <[email protected]>, "DOCSIS OSS >Majordomo > >List" > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > cc: > > > > > Fax to: > > > > > Subject: RE: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for assigning > >modulation > > > > > profiles to upstream channels > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >David, > > > > > > > > > >I agree with all of your clearly legal/illegal combinations. >Among > >the > > > > >four that cause you consternation, I would break them done like > >this: > > > > > > > > > >illegal: > > > > >tdma, atdma > > > > >atdma, tdma > > > > > > > > > >potentially legal: > > > > >tdma, tdmaAndAtdma > > > > >atdma, tdmaAndAtdma > > > > > > > > > >An atdma modulation profile will include IUCs 1,3,4,9,10, and > >possibly > > > 11, > > > > >so cannot be used for a tdma channel. Similarly a tdma modulation > >profile > > > > >will include IUCs 1,3,4,5,6, so cannot be used for an atdma > >channel. > > > > > > > > > >A tdmaAndAtdma modulation profile will include IUCs >1,3,4,5,6,9,10, > >and > > > > >possibly 11, so could potentially be used for a tdma or an atdma > >channel > > > > >(in addition to a tdmaAndAtdma channel), as long as the CMTS > >ignored the > > > > >IUCs that don't apply to the channel type. I'm not sure that the > > > > >advantages of that flexibility outweigh the disadvantages of >having > >the > > > > >MIB reporting something that doesn't exactly reflect what is > > > > >configured. Perhaps it is simpler just to require that > >ModChannelType > > > > >match UpChannelType. > > > > > > > > > >-Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message----- > > > > >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:37 AM > > > > >To: DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List > > > > >Subject: DOCSIS 2.0 : rules for assigning modulation profiles to > >upstream > > > > >channels > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >DOCSIS 2.0 Community, > > > > > It seems that the DocsisUpstreamType objects in both the > > > > > modulation profile table and the upstream channel table exist, >in > >part, > > > > > to provide the equipment vendor a way to cross-check the data >for > > > > > consistency. Furthermore, it would seem possible to compare the > >two > > > > > DocsisUpstreamType objects when assigning an upstream to a > >modulation > > > > > profile to make sure the assignment is compatible. For instance, > >the > > > > > following combination of docsIfUpChannelType, > >docsIfCmtsModChannelType > > > > > would clearly be illegal: > > > > > > > > > >scdma, tdma > > > > >scdma, atdma > > > > >scdma, tdmaAndAtdma > > > > > > > > > >tdma, scdma > > > > >atdma, scdma > > > > >tdmaAndAtdma, scdma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It is also pretty clear the following are legal: > > > > > > > > > >tdma, tdma > > > > >atdma, atdma > > > > >scdma, scdma > > > > >tdmaAndAtdma, tdmaAndAtdma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >However, it is the following cases that are causing me > >consternation: > > > > > > > > > >tdma, atdma > > > > >tdma, tdmaAndAtdma > > > > >atdma, tdma > > > > >atdma, tdmaAndAtdma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If ALL of these are legal, then I do not understand the point of > > > > >tdmaAndAtdma, other than to cause confusion, especially for > >modulation > > > > >profiles. > > > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > >David White > > > > >ARRIS Cadant C4 CMTS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >IPCDN mailing list >[email protected] >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn