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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DUTF-8"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }p { margin-top: 0px; margin-botto=
m: 0px; }div.foxdiv20170609111412593562 { }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-=
family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-he=
ight: 1.5; }</style></head><body>=0A =0A =0A<div><span></span>Thank yo=
u, Mr. Bryant and Mr. Aitken.</div><div><br></div><div>SCTP is mandatory f=
or IPFIX, TCP and UDP are optional. </div><div>SCTP is ok for large I=
PFIX message because SCTP <span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1=
.5; background-color: window;">provides message fragmentation and reassemb=
ly method. </span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-h=
eight: 1.5; background-color: window;"><br></span></div><div><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: window;">Accord=
ing to the discussion in the IDR mail list, TCP is also ok for large IPFIX=
message. When TCP gets the large message from IPFIX, it cuts the message =
into segments according to the MTU or MSS of the exporter. </span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: window;=
">TCP itself can not guarentee the segments it emits to the IP small enoug=
h to avoid fragmentation, because the MSS or MTU determined by the exporte=
r and collector may be bigger than the MTU in the middle path. Path MTU is=
not a reliable way neither because </span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: window;">the ICMP me=
ssages necessary for path MTU detection may be bl=
ocked by some nodes in the path</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; li=
ne-height: 1.5; background-color: window;">. So when f</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=
=91, Tahoma; line-height: normal; background-color: window;">ragmentation =
happens occasionally in practice,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
line-height: 1.5; background-color: window;"> the operator has to do =
something to solve this, such as by configuring the MTU or MSS on the =
;exporter small enough to avoid IP fragmentation.</span></div>=0A<div><br>=
</div><div>If UDP is used by IPFIX as transport protocol, which means in t=
his case the IPFIX is <span style=3D"background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, =
0); font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;">transaction oriented, =
it doesn't care about delivery and duplicate protection</sp=
an><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size: 10.5pt; l=
ine-height: 1.5;">. So, I think in this case we don't need to provide any =
fragmentation and reassembly method for IPFIX. </span></div><div><br>=
</div><div>Best Regards,</div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" col=
or=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span><div style=3D"MARGI=
N: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><div>lizhenqiang@chinamobi=
le.com</div></div></span></div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 0px; ma=
rgin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em;"><div> </div><div style=3D"bord=
er:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div sty=
le=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:t=
ahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP=
: 8px"><div><b>From:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">=
Stewart Bryant</a></div><div><b>Date:</b> 2017-06-08 18:45</div>=
<div><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">li zhenqi=
ang</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">PJ Aitken</a>; <a href=3D=
"mailto:[email protected]">opsawg</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">idr</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a></div><div><b>Subj=
ect:</b> Re: [IPFIX] [Idr] discussion about exporting BGP community i=
nformation in IPFIX</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv201706091114=
12593562">=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A <p>If you stick with UDP, and there=
are good reasons to do that,=0A maybe we need a fragmentation shim f=
or UDP?<br>=0A </p>=0A <p>Stewart<br>=0A </p>=0A <br>=0A <d=
iv class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 08/06/2017 04:21, li zhenqiang=0A wro=
te:<br>=0A </div>=0A <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:HK2PR0601=
MB1361B554DA6986285045FE19FCC90@HK2PR0601MB1361.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com"=
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em;">=0A =
=0A =0A <div>Hello Mr. Aitken,</div>=0A <div><br>=
=0A </div>=0A <div><span></span>Thank you very much for your sug=
gestion.</div>=0A <div>I have no perfect idea now. Extending the leng=
th of IPFIX=0A message is a simple method. But do we need to take t=
he transport=0A protocol into account? Although SCTP is mandatory, =
some IPFIX=0A implementations use TCP or UDP as their transport pro=
tocol. SCTP=0A provides message fragmentation and reassembly method=
, neithor=0A TCP nor UDP. TCP and UDP rely on IP to finish this wor=
k. IP=0A fragmented packets may be droped by some nodes in the netw=
ork=0A due to security rules or to improve the tansport preformance=
.=0A For the implementations using TCP or UDP as their transport=0A=
protocol, sometimes they may not receive some fragmented IPFIX=0A =
messgaes when we extend the message length to 32 bits. I think=0A =
BGP protocol with extended message length as defined in <span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color:=0A =
window;"> </span><a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url=
?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Dextende=
d-2Dmessages_&d=3DDwMGaQ&c=3DIL_XqQWOjubgfqINi2jTzg&r=3DXx9729=
xYDYoCgBDdcp1FKt5PyYd1TCoXNKhyPY8CFp8&m=3DplGpWzcW7ppWguHBC4w6PyEGZRLk=
mX7MJ1vUTVNOpZs&s=3D0pin7tGPbPq5n1iayUcdxrEXuvzvTPplWdQkXERikBo&e=
=3D" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height:=0A =
1.5; background-color: window;">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</a> also=0A has the same=
issue. I will send a seperate mail in IDR to ask=0A for their opin=
ions.</div>=0A <div><br>=0A </div>=0A <div>Best Regards,</d=
iv>=0A <div><br>=0A </div>=0A <hr style=3D"width: 210px; he=
ight: 1px;" size=3D"1" align=3D"left" color=3D"#b5c4df">=0A <div><spa=
n>=0A <div style=3D"MARGIN: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE=
:=0A 10pt">=0A <div><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbrevi=
ated" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a=
></div>=0A </div>=0A </span></div>=0A <blockquote sty=
le=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em;">=0A =
<div> </div>=0A <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B=
5C4DF=0A 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">=0A <div style=
=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE:=0A 12px;F=
ONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefef;=0A PADDIN=
G-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px">=0A <div><b>From:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">PJ Aitken</a=
></div>=0A <div><b>Date:</b> 2017-06-07 17:53</div>=
=0A <div><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail=
.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">li zhenqiang</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@=
ietf.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">=0A opsawg</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">idr</a>; <a href=3D"mail=
to:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">=0A ipfix@ietf.=
org</a></div>=0A <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [IPFIX] [Idr] di=
scussion about=0A exporting BGP community information in IPFI=
X</div>=0A </div>=0A </div>=0A <div>=0A <d=
iv class=3D"FoxDiv20170608104116840842">What IPFIX message=0A s=
plitting method would you propose? Bear in mind that it=0A must=
be backwards-compatible with existing collectors which=0A do n=
ot expect message splitting.<br>=0A <br>=0A Rather t=
han splitting messages, it might be acceptable=0A simply to sen=
d longer messages. I think this would require a=0A new version =
of IPFIX (eg, version 11) with the following=0A modifications:<=
br>=0A <br>=0A * 32-bit Length in the Message Header=
(cf. RFC 7011 / Figure=0A F)<br>=0A * 32 bit Field =
Length in the Field Specifier Format (cf. RFC=0A 7011 / Figure =
G)<br>=0A * 32 bit Length in the Set Header Format (cf. RFC 701=
1 /=0A Figure I)<br>=0A <br>=0A P.<br>=0A=
<br>=0A <br>=0A <div class=3D"moz-cite-p=
refix">On 07/06/17 10:02, li zhenqiang=0A wrote:<br>=0A =
</div>=0A <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:HK2PR0601=
MB13614AD1610E2FA97C21A682FCC80@HK2PR0601MB1361.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com"=
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em;">=0A =
<div><span></span>about question 1=EF=BC=8C the message length.=
</div>=0A <div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); back=
ground-color:=0A rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);"></span><span style=3D=
"color: rgb(0,=0A 0, 0); font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: =
1.5;=0A background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">A WG draft,<=
/span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;=0A =
background-color: window;">=0A </span><a href=3D"https:=
//urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_=
draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Dextended-2Dmessages_&d=3DDwMGaQ&c=3DIL_=
XqQWOjubgfqINi2jTzg&r=3DXx9729xYDYoCgBDdcp1FKt5PyYd1TCoXNKhyPY8CFp8&am=
p;m=3DplGpWzcW7ppWguHBC4w6PyEGZRLkmX7MJ1vUTVNOpZs&s=3D0pin7tGPbPq5n1ia=
yUcdxrEXuvzvTPplWdQkXERikBo&e=3D" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-hei=
ght: 1.5;=0A background-color: window;" moz-do-not-send=
=3D"true">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages/</a>, <span style=3D"background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-s=
ize:=0A 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;">extends the =
maximum update message size</span><span style=3D"color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); font-size: 10.5pt;=0A line-height: 1.5; backgr=
ound-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);"> </span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 10.5pt;=0A line-height: 1.5; background-=
color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">of BGP beyond 4096 bytes&nbs=
p;to 65535 bytes.</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font=
-size: 10.5pt;=0A line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb=
a(0, 0, 0, 0);"> So,=0A one IPFIX message may not be=
sufficient to fit all the=0A communities related to a sp=
ecific flow. BGP speakers </span><span style=3D"background-color: rgb=
a(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size:=0A 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;">t=
hat support the extended message=0A f=
eature SHOULD take<span style=3D"white-space: pre;"> </span></sp=
an><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size:=0A =
10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;">care to handle the&nb=
sp;IPFIX message properly, such as only conv=
ey as many communities as possible in t=
he<span style=3D"white-space: pre;"> </span></span><span style=3D"bac=
kground-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size:=0A 10.5pt; li=
ne-height: 1.5;">IPFIX message. The collector that=0Ar=
eceives an IPFIX message with maximum length=
and BGP communities </span><span style=3D"background-=
color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); font-size:=0A 10.5pt; line-heigh=
t: 1.5;">contained in its data set SHOULD be=
aware of the BGP communities may be&nb=
sp;truncated due to limited message<span style=3D"whit=
e-space: pre;"> </span></span><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(0=
, 0, 0, 0); font-size:=0A 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;">spac=
e. In this case, it is RECOMMENDED to&n=
bsp;configure export policy on the exporter =
to limit the BGP communities<span style=3D"white-space=
: pre;"> </span></span><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0,=
0); font-size:=0A 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5;">to be&=
nbsp;exported, to export only some specific =
communities, for example, or not to export&n=
bsp;some communities.</span></div>=0A <div><span style=
=3D"background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);=0A font-size: 10.=
5pt; line-height: 1.5;"><br>=0A </span></div>=0A =
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:=0A =
rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">To solve this problem compl=
etely,=0A we should update IPFIX Protocol Speci=
fication RFC7011=0A to support<span style=3D"white-s=
pace: pre;"> </span>message splitting.</span></div>=0A =
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:=0A =
rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);"><br>=0A </span></div>=0A =
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:=0A =
rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">Your comments are appreciated.</span></div>=
=0A <div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color=
:=0A rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);"><br>=0A </span></d=
iv>=0A <hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" size=3D"1" al=
ign=3D"left" color=3D"#b5c4df">=0A <div><span>=0A =
<div style=3D"MARGIN: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana;=0A =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=0A <div><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-=
abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send=3D"t=
rue">[email protected]</a></div>=0A <span></span=
></div>=0A </span></div>=0A </blockquote>=0A =
</div>=0A </div>=0A </blockquote>=0A <br>=0A <=
fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>=0A <br>=0A <=
pre wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________=0AIPFIX mail=
ing list=0A<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:IPFIX@ietf=
.org">[email protected]</a>=0A<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http=
s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/ipfix</a>=0A</pre>=0A </blockquote>=0A <br>=0A =0A</div></div>=
</blockquote>=0A</body></html>
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