Re: What value do IPP Printers provide for "printer-name"?

Summary of discussion at June 20, 2024 IPP workgroup conference call:

- Chris: Are we going to try to standardize this?
    - A: No, more curiousity
    - AirPrint/IPP Everywhere only require specific values for printer-make-and-model and printer-dns-sd-name
    - Bill: We might suggest a default? And recommend that the value be settable?
    - Uli: If there was a recommendation that would more strongly influence firmware design decisions
    - Mike: Not used by CUPS clients
        - Uli: Windows seems to default to using the printer-name value
        - Michael: I'll check
    - Ira: IIG2.0 says nothing about printer-name
        - Maybe file errata for IIG 2.0?
        - Mike: IIG can talk about client recommendations, IPP Everywhere 2.0 can talk about printer recommendations
    - Bill: What's the point of requiring printer-name if nobody uses it?
        - Mike: It has been required since IPP/1.0, and if we take a longer view maybe we could have something useful in the future?
- Mike: Maybe IPP Everywhere 2.0 can make some recommendations/requirements
    - Bill: Suggest defaults
    - Mike: Also require it to be settable (EWS, Console, and/or Set-Printer-Attributes), not blank and not the resource path, etc. from the URI


> On Jun 20, 2024, at 10:08 AM, wamwagner--- via ipp <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Smith et al,
> 
> For KonicaMinolta MFPs, the default value of "printer-name" is left blank. But the User Guide, under  "Configuring basic settings for the IPP Printing"  instructs administrator to "Enter the printer name of this machine (using up to 127 characters)"
> 
> Thanks,
>  Bill WagnerFrom: ipp <[email protected]> on behalf of Charles Armstrong via ipp <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 12:40 PM
> To: ISTO-PWG Internet Printing Protocol workgroup discussion forum <[email protected]>
> Cc: Charles Armstrong <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [IPP] What value do IPP Printers provide for "printer-name"?
>  Hi Smith,
> Here's the response from Canon: 
> 
>     • printer-name : Model name. The value is fixed (e.g. XK500 series, iR-ADV C3520)
>     • printer-make-and-model : Specific printer manufacturer and model name, and is fixed. (e.g. Canon XK500series, Canon iR-ADV C3520)
>     • printer-dns-sd-name : Bonjour Service Name
> Canon doesn't provide the hostname for the "printer-name" attribute.
> Best Regards,
> CharlesFrom: ipp <[email protected]> on behalf of Anton Thomasson via ipp <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2024 11:39 AM
> To: ISTO-PWG Internet Printing Protocol workgroup discussion forum <[email protected]>
> Cc: Anton Thomasson <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [IPP] What value do IPP Printers provide for "printer-name"?
>  Email was not sent from a Canon Network!
> Hi
> 
> I too expect something human-useful here.
> Looking through my user-supplied attribute dumps, i see most printers doing something decent; mostly model-based.
> 
> Some interesting outliers:
>     • 
> Xerox WorkCentre 6515: "192.168.1.74"
>     • Various Brother printers: "" (empty string)
>     • Brother VC-500W: "print" (from /ipp/print presumably)
>     • EPSON SC-P900: "ipp/print"
> Br,
> Anton
> 
> Den ons 12 juni 2024 kl 12:38 skrev Arun Holla via ipp <[email protected]>:
> Hi Smith,
>  For the Fiery Digital Front End servers, here are the IPP attribute values being populated:
>  
>     • printer-name à ‘hostname’
>     • printer-make-and-model à Specific printer manufacturer and model name, and is fixed.
>     • printer-dns-sd-name à Bonjour Service Name concatenated with the last 3 octets of the Mac address (similar to Xerox). Default is the printer manufacturer and model name concatenated with the 3 octets of Mac address. This helps to keep it unique as it is used during the printer discovery. This value changes when the Bonjour service name is changed by the user.
>  Thanks,
> -Arun-
> From: ipp <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Rizzo, Christopher via ipp
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2024 4:44 AM
> To: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & IPP Standards) <[email protected]>
> Cc: Rizzo, Christopher <[email protected]>; PWG IPP WG Reflector <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [IPP] What value do IPP Printers provide for "printer-name"?
>  [EXTERNAL] Of course - I just thought of what happens when there is a name conflict with another device on the network, and tested it.
>  The conflict caused the registered name via MDNS to have "(2)" appended to it, but neither printer-name nor printer-dns-sd-name were updated to match.
>  So now I'm wondering if that is a bug. Is that a bug?  I think that is as I read PWG 5100.13 - printer-dns-sd-name at a minumum should have changed to match the MDNS (updated) registered name.
>  Chris
>  Christopher Rizzo
> Engineer II, Software Engineering
> Design & Development Engineering
>

>  Xerox Corporation
> Virtual Office Employee
> 26600 SW Parkway Ave
> Wilsonville, OR 97070
>

>

>

>

>

>   From: Christopher Rizzo <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, June 11, 2024 at 4:03 PM
> To: Kennedy Smith <[email protected]>
> Cc: PWG Workgroup <[email protected]>, Michael Sweet <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [IPP] What value do IPP Printers provide for "printer-name"?
>  Yes, both are updated together.
>  And they are independent of the hostname
>  Chris
>  Christopher Rizzo
> Engineer II, Software Engineering
> Design & Development Engineering
>

>  Xerox Corporation
> Virtual Office Employee
> 26600 SW Parkway Ave
> Wilsonville, OR 97070
>

>

>

>

>

>   From: Kennedy Smith <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, June 11, 2024 at 3:49 PM
> To: Christopher Rizzo <[email protected]>
> Cc: PWG Workgroup <[email protected]>, Michael Sweet <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [IPP] What value do IPP Printers provide for "printer-name"?
>  CAUTION:   This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> Thanks Chris! HP printers do something similar for the default DNS-SD Instance Name. If Xerox printers provide the same value for "printer-name" as "printer-dns-sd-name", if one changes then so does the other?
>  Smith
>  On Jun 11, 2024, at 3:21 PM, Rizzo, Christopher <[email protected]> wrote:
>  CAUTION: External Email
> The Xerox devices that I work on use the Bonjour advertisement name for IPP printer-name. I cannot speak for all Xerox products.
> 
> The factory default for this is "Xerox <model> (<last 3 bytes of eth mac addr>)".
> 
> Reason for the mac addr append is for customers that purchase more than one device they can be identified while avoiding the need for initial conflicts in name resolution.
> 
> Chris
> 
> Christopher Rizzo 
> Engineer II, Software Engineering 
> Design & Development Engineering 
> 
> <http://www.xerox.com/>
> 
> Xerox Corporation 
> Virtual Office Employee 
> 26600 SW Parkway Ave 
> Wilsonville, OR 97070 
> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/xerox/> <https://www.youtube.com/user/XeroxCorp> <https://twitter.com/Xerox> <https://www.instagram.com/xerox/> <https://www.facebook.com/XeroxCorp>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/11/24, 12:46 PM, "ipp on behalf of Michael Sweet via ipp" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> on behalf [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Smith,
> 
> 
> > On Jun 11, 2024, at 3:22 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & IPP Standards) <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > ...
> > So the attributes involved in a discussion were:
> > 
> > printer-name (RFC 2911 / 8011 - required)
> > printer-make-and-model (RFC 2911 / 8011 - recommended)
> > printer-dns-sd-name (PWG 5100.13 - required)
> > 
> > The wording of "printer-name" makes it sound like it should be a unique name, not a model name...
> 
> 
> A printer by any other name would smell as sweet?
> 
> 
> From RFC 8011, "printer-name" is *not* a unique name, just a more friendly one:
> 
> 
> 5.4.4. printer-name (name(127))
> 
> 
> This REQUIRED Printer attribute contains the name of the Printer. It
> is a name that is more End User friendly than a URI. An
> Administrator determines a Printer's name and sets this attribute to
> that name. This name can be the last part of the Printer's URI, or
> it can be unrelated. In non-US-English locales, a name can contain
> characters that are not allowed in a URI.
> 
> 
> ________________________
> Michael Sweet
> 
> 
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