Re: [yang-doctors] [IPsec] [Last-Call] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-i2nsf-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-08

Hi Rafa, authors,

Just to check.

Has there been any closure on the suggestion from Chris on “notifications in the ikeless module as a feature"?  This would seem to be a fairly cheap & easy compromise.

Thanks,
Rob


From: yang-doctors <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lou Berger
Sent: 27 September 2020 15:26
To: Christian Hopps <[email protected]>; Martin Björklund <[email protected]>
Cc: Robert Wilton <[email protected]>; [email protected]; Gabriel Lopez <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; Rafa Marin-Lopez <[email protected]>; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] [IPsec] [Last-Call] [I2nsf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-i2nsf-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-08

This is a sub-optimal compromise b/c all IPsec have SA databases even ones running IKE -- i.e., SA databases are common whether exposed in YANG or not -- but if it can move it forward perhaps good enough.


Speaking as an interested party, I hope that some compromise / good enough solution is followed in the -09 version of  this draft.

Lou
On 9/23/2020 7:20 AM, Christian Hopps wrote:



On Sep 23, 2020, at 6:58 AM, Martin Björklund <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Hi,

Christian Hopps <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:




On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:29 AM, Rafa Marin-Lopez <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:




But I would like to check: My understanding is that the changes that
Chris is proposing are pretty small.  I.e. move the SA structure under
ipsec-common, and put it under a YANG feature.  Are you sure that it
is impractical to accommodate this change which would allow a single
ipsec module to be shared and extended via YANG augmentations?


In the context of our I-D, if we move SAD structure to ipsec-common,
what we are meaning is that IPsec SA configuration data (setting
values to the SAD structure) are common to the IKE case and the
IKE-less cases, which are not. It is confusing.

Something defined in a common module but marked as a feature does not
imply that that feature has to be implemented by an importing
module. This is not confusing to YANG implementers or users I
think. If we are just talking about document flow here, then a
sentence saying "the SAD feature is not required to implement IKE
functionality" is quite enough to clear that up I think.

Another alternative could be to move these containers to another
(new) module.

It may also be enough to mark the notifications in the ikeless module as a feature I suppose. That is the actual thing I think non-SDN implementations would want to omit. The module name "ikeless" is not great in this case, but perhaps workable.


This is a sub-optimal compromise b/c all IPsec have SA databases even ones running IKE -- i.e., SA databases are common whether exposed in YANG or not -- but if it can move it forward perhaps good enough.


I'm definitely concerned about IETF process and real world usability here. These modules are basically workable for ipsec I think, they could be used by operators today. If we restart the entire process to redo this work for the more generic IPsec case it will probably be years before they are finished and in the field. This new work can be started, but why not have something usable in the meantime?

Thanks,
Chris.



/martin





Thanks,
Chris.


Moreover, the usage of feature means that, after all, this “common” is
not “common” to both cases IKE case and IKE-less. Again, it seems
confusing. In the IKE case, the SDN/I2NSF controller does not
configure the SAD at all but the IKE implementation in the NSF. In our
opinion, in order to properly add this IPsec SA operational state to
the IKE case we should include operational data about the IPsec SAs
(config false) to the ietf-ipsec-ike. Alternatively, we have certain
operational data (ro) in the SAD structure in the IKE-less case. If
only those are moved to the common part should be ok but we think it
does not solve the problem.

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