[lamps] PQC Dialogue with Government Stakeholders Side-Meeting at IETF 122 Bangkok
John Mattsson <[email protected]> Fri, 28 Feb 2025 07:06:01 +0000
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--===============0814626494241260498== Content-Language: en-GB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_GVXPR07MB9678F3FDB6989475CF44C17389CC2GVXPR07MB9678eurp_" --_000_GVXPR07MB9678F3FDB6989475CF44C17389CC2GVXPR07MB9678eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, There was significant interest from several countries to have a side-meetin= g on PQC at IETF 122 Bangkok, so Ericsson will organize such a meeting on M= onday 17 March 15.15 - 16.45 Bangkok time in Meeting Room 2 [40 seats] (ove= rlapping with Monday Session III). It is possible to attend remotely. https://trello.com/c/nH9exeWo Potential discussion topics are listed below. There might be a few short pr= esentations to foster discussion, but the plan is to focus on dialogue and = discussion between people in the IETF and government stakeholders. Cheers, John Preu=DF Mattsson Expert, Cryptographic Algorithms and Security Protocols, Ericsson Description Time: 15:15-16:45 Meeting Title: PQC Dialogue with Government Stakeholders IETF Webex: https://ietf.webex.com/meet/ietfsidemeeting2 Meeting Organizer: John Preu=DF Matsson, Ericsson and Alexander Engstr=F6m,= NDRE Email address: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]= > Meeting Description: Potential discussion topics: * Recommended PQC algorithms (KEMs and signatures) o ML-KEM, ML-DSA, SLH-DSA, FN-DSA, Classic McEliece, FrodoKEM, BIKE/HQC, XM= SS/LMS, =85 o Security category 1,2,3,4,5? Does it depend on algorithm and use case? * Timelines for PQC migration o When should migration begin? When will it be required? o Does it depend on user, use case, protection lifetime, hardware vs softwa= re, migration complexity, value of the protected node and data, scheduled h= ardware replacement, etc.? * Hybridization or standalone PQC o Difference between KEMs and Signatures o Differences between algorithms (e.g., lattice-based vs. hash-based) o Differences between use cases (e.g., confidentiality vs. authentication) o Is hybridization a short-term necessity or a long-term strategy? * Hybridization of PQC KEMs o Single vs. multiple PQC algorithms? Role of symmetric keys? o KEM combiners: general-purpose vs. optimized designs o Which traditional curves? X25519/X448, NIST P-curves, Brainpool, =85 * Hybridization of signatures o Role of symmetric keys? o Signature combiners, general or optimized? o Desired properties: SUF-CMA? Other security properties? o Which traditional signatures? EdDSA, ECDSA, RSA? * KDF and hash functions o ML-KEM and ML-DSA mandate SHA-3. o Time to move away from SHA-2/HMAC/HKDF/MGF? --_000_GVXPR07MB9678F3FDB6989475CF44C17389CC2GVXPR07MB9678eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:sc= hemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/of= fice/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Aptos; panose-1:2 11 0 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;} h3 {mso-style-priority:9; mso-style-link:"Heading 3 Char"; 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mso-level-text:\F0B7 ; mso-level-tab-stop:252.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Symbol;} @list l0:level8 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:\F0B7 ; mso-level-tab-stop:288.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Symbol;} @list l0:level9 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:\F0B7 ; mso-level-tab-stop:324.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Symbol;} ol {margin-bottom:0cm;} ul {margin-bottom:0cm;} --></style> </head> <body lang=3D"en-SE" link=3D"#467886" vlink=3D"#96607D" style=3D"word-wrap:= break-word"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <div id=3D"mail-editor-reference-message-container"> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Hi,</= span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color= :#212121"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color= :#212121">There was</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">&n= bsp;significant interest from several countries to have a side-meeting on P= QC at IETF 122 Bangkok, so<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </spa= n></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Eric= sson</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:1= 2.0pt;color:#212121"> </span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;co= lor:#212121">will organize such a meeting on Monday 17 March 15.15 - 16.45 Bangkok time</spa= n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> in Meeting= Room 2 [40 seats] (overlapping with </span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Monday Session III</span><span lang= =3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">)</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0= pt;color:#212121">.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;co= lor:#212121"> It is possible to attend remotely.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><a hr= ef=3D"https://trello.com/c/nH9exeWo" title=3D"https://trello.com/c/nH9exeWo= ">https://trello.com/c/nH9exeWo</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color= :#212121"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color= :#212121">Potential discussion topics are listed below. There might be a fe= w short presentations to foster discussion, but the plan is to focus on dia= logue and discussion between people in the IETF and government stakeholders.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color= :#212121"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Cheer= s,</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">John<= /span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f= ont-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty= le=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Preu=DF Mattsson</span><o:p></o:p></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color= :#212121">Expert, Cryptographic Algorithms and Security Protocols, Ericsson= </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color= :#212121"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <h3><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Description</span><o:p></o:p></h3> <p><strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Time</s= pan></strong>: 15:15-16:45<br> <strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Meeting Ti= tle:</span></strong> PQC Dialogue with Government Stakeholders<br> <strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">IETF Webex= :</span></strong> <a href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/meet/ietfsidemeeting2" = title=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/meet/ietfsidemeeting2"> https://ietf.webex.com/meet/ietfsidemeeting2</a><br> <strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Meeting Or= ganizer</span></strong>: John Preu=DF Matsson, Ericsson and Alexander Engst= r=F6m, NDRE<br> <strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Email addr= ess</span></strong>: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" title=3D"mailto:john.mattsson= @ericsson.com"> [email protected]</a><o:p></o:p></p> <p><strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Meeting= Description</span></strong>: Potential discussion topics:<o:p></o:p></p> <ul type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-= alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Recommended PQC algorithms (KEMs and signa= tures)<br> o ML-KEM, ML-DSA, SLH-DSA, FN-DSA, Classic McEliece, FrodoKEM, BIKE/HQC, XM= SS/LMS, =85<br> o Security category 1,2,3,4,5? Does it depend on algorithm and use case?<o:= p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:aut= o;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Timelines for PQC migration<br> o When should migration begin? When will it be required?<br> o Does it depend on user, use case, protection lifetime, hardware vs softwa= re, migration complexity, value of the protected node and data, scheduled h= ardware replacement, etc.?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" st= yle=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level= 1 lfo1"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hybridization or standalone PQC<br> o Difference between KEMs and Signatures<br> o Differences between algorithms (e.g., lattice-based vs. hash-based)<br> o Differences between use cases (e.g., confidentiality vs. authentication)<= br> o Is hybridization a short-term necessity or a long-term strategy?<o:p></o:= p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-= margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hybridization of PQC KEMs<br> o Single vs. multiple PQC algorithms? Role of symmetric keys?<br> o KEM combiners: general-purpose vs. optimized designs<br> o Which traditional curves? X25519/X448, NIST P-curves, Brainpool, =85<o:p>= </o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;= mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hybridization of signatures<br> o Role of symmetric keys?<br> o Signature combiners, general or optimized?<br> o Desired properties: SUF-CMA? Other security properties?<br> o Which traditional signatures? EdDSA, ECDSA, RSA?<o:p></o:p></span></li><l= i class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al= t:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">KDF and hash functions<br> o ML-KEM and ML-DSA mandate SHA-3.<br> o Time to move away from SHA-2/HMAC/HKDF/MGF?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_GVXPR07MB9678F3FDB6989475CF44C17389CC2GVXPR07MB9678eurp_-- --===============0814626494241260498== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KU3Bhc20gbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0IC0tIHNwYXNtQGlldGYub3JnClRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlIHNlbmQgYW4gZW1haWwg dG8gc3Bhc20tbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============0814626494241260498==--