Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04
IJsbrand Wijnands <[email protected]> Tue, 13 Feb 2018 11:26:07 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.isis |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <366D5764-C195-469C-826A-90DC9F5E6307__46302.4009754465$1518517498$gmane$org@cisco.com> |
--===============6244452404052082151== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4040506F-A773-4102-AACB-21822BF05CF6" --Apple-Mail=_4040506F-A773-4102-AACB-21822BF05CF6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 +1 But, I=E2=80=99m not yet sure if we=E2=80=99re taking about a errata or = a new draft.. I see different ways to interpret the proposed text and = Les=E2=80=99s explanation. Thx, Ice. > On 13 Feb 2018, at 10:03, Peter Psenak <[email protected]> wrote: >=20 > Hi Folks, >=20 > can we add an errata to RFC 8279, instead of adding the text to both = IGP drafts that does not really belong there. >=20 >=20 > thanks, > Peter >=20 > On 13/02/18 08:16 , Tony Przygienda wrote: >> +1 what Les says as my understanding of the problem we're tackling = here ... >>=20 >> --- tony >>=20 >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>=20 >> Ice =E2=80=93____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> MY understanding is that =E2=80=93 in the future =E2=80=93 there = may be additional >> encaps defined for BIER. When that happens, a given BFR may = support >> multiple encaps. In such a case, it is OK if other BFRs supporting >> the same <MT,SD> only support one of the set of encaps =E2=80=93 = so long as >> we have one encap in common we can successfully forward. I believe >> that is the case the text change is trying to address =E2=80=93 = not encap vs >> no encap. The original text would have required identical sets of >> encaps to be supported by all BFRs for a give <MT,SD> - which is >> unnecessarily restrictive.____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> Make sense?____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> Les____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> *From:*IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) >> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 1:50 PM >>=20 >>=20 >> *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> list <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> Les,____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> (If MPLS encapsulation (Section 2.1 of [MPLS_BIER_ENCAPS]) is >> being used, this means that every BFR that is = advertising >> a label >> for sub-domain S is advertising a label for the >> combination of >> sub-domain S and Disposition BitStringLength L.)____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> It says, if MPLS encapsulation is used, there is a Label for the >> {SD, BSL}. So, if there is non-MPLS (ether) only, there will not = be >> a Label and the compatibility check will fail. Is that not the = same >> a router that does not support MPLS BIER, and treated as a = non-BIER >> router?____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> [Les:] I don=E2=80=99t see how this text can be used to mean = =E2=80=9Cmultiple >> encap types can be supported on the same BFR for a given = <MT,SD>=E2=80=9D. >> ???____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> Are these not like ships in the night? Like an Prefix can be >> reachable over MPLS and IP on the same interface? I do assume you >> want to stay with the encapsulation that you where provisioned in >> and not move from MPLS into non-MPLS. Why do you need to say you = can >> support both?____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> Thx,____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> Ice.____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> On 12 Feb 2018, at 22:16, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>=20 >> Ice - >>=20 >> From: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) >> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:58 PM >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>>; >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; = [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> list <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04 >>=20 >> Les, >>=20 >>=20 >> Perhaps the thread is too long and you have gotten confused. J >>=20 >> Maybe :-), but... >>=20 >>=20 >> The point being discussed now is support for multiple >> encapsulation types (BSL conversion was mentioned in the = thread >> =E2=80=93 but it is NOT the subject being discussed at the = moment). >>=20 >> I got that, it was removed after a long debate sometime back. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> In latest IS-IS BIER draft we changed: >>=20 >> > All routers in the flooding scope of the BIER TLVs >> MUST advertise the >> > same encapsulation for a given <MT,SD>. A router >> discovering >> > encapsulation advertised that is different from its >> own MUST report a >> > misconfiguration of a specific <MT,SD>. All = received >> BIER >> > advertisements associated with the conflicting <MT, >> SD> pair MUST be >> > ignored. >> > >> > " >> > >> > to >> > >> > " >> > >> > Multiple encapsulations MAY be advertised/supported >> for a given >> > <MT,SD>. Clearly, however, there MUST be at least >> one encapsulation >> > type in common in order for a BIER encapsulated >> packet to be >> > successfully forwarded between two BFRs. >> > >>=20 >> Point has been made that this really belongs in the = architecture >> RFC, but since it isn=E2=80=99t there it may make sense for = the IGP >> drafts to mention it. >>=20 >> Below is taken from "6.10.1. BitStringLength Compatibility >> Check=E2=80=9D RFC 8279, does this not cover it? >>=20 >> **** >> The combination of sub-domain S and Imposition BitStringLength = L >> passes the BitStringLength Compatibility Check if and only >> if the >> following condition holds: >>=20 >> Every BFR that has advertised its membership in >> sub-domain S has >> also advertised that it is using Disposition >> BitStringLength L >> (and possibly other BitStringLengths as well) in that >> sub-domain. >> (If MPLS encapsulation (Section 2.1 of = [MPLS_BIER_ENCAPS]) is >> being used, this means that every BFR that is = advertising >> a label >> for sub-domain S is advertising a label for the >> combination of >> sub-domain S and Disposition BitStringLength L.) >>=20 >> If a BFIR has been provisioned to use a particular Imposition >> BitStringLength and a particular sub-domain for some set = of >> packets, >> and if that combination of Imposition BitStringLength and >> sub-domain >> does not pass the BitStringLength Compatibility Check, the = BFIR >> SHOULD log this fact as an error. >> **** >>=20 >> [Les:] I don=E2=80=99t see how this text can be used to mean = =E2=80=9Cmultiple >> encap types can be supported on the same BFR for a given = <MT,SD>=E2=80=9D. >> ??? >>=20 >> Les >>=20 >>=20 >> Thx, >>=20 >> Ice. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> In the case of IS-IS, because earlier versions of the draft = had >> an explicit statement which we now consider too limiting, it >> made sense to make an explicit statement of the more flexible >> behavior. >>=20 >> In the case of OSPF, the overly restrictive text was never >> present, so it is more debatable as to whether the clarifying >> statement is needed =E2=80=93 but doing so keeps the drafts in = sync. >>=20 >> Still, the =E2=80=9Cright solution=E2=80=9D would be to have = the statement in >> RFC 8279 =E2=80=93 but a bit late for that. >>=20 >> Les >>=20 >>=20 >> From: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) >> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:05 PM >> To: Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Cc: Tony Przygienda <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; = [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> list <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04 >>=20 >> Folks, >>=20 >> I would say its wrong to try and fix the BIER architecture by >> adding this into the IGP drafts. The IGP is a pass-through for >> the BIER information, and adding this text seems to imply that >> the IGP now needs to become BIER aware in order to detect and >> trigger notifications of encapsulation incompatibilities. >>=20 >> The BIER architecture RFC 8279 has section 6.10 "Use of >> Different BitStringLengths within a Domain=E2=80=9D, what is = missing in >> that section that would justify the IGP to become aware of >> BitStringLength differences? IMO everything is covered. >>=20 >> Thx, >>=20 >> Ice. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 12 Feb 2018, at 19:33, Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Tony, >> I agree that since architecture has been published, it would = not >> hurt to add the 5.2 text to the IGP documents. >> Thanks, >> Acee >>=20 >> From: Tony Przygienda <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Date: Monday, February 12, 2018 at 12:13 PM >> To: Acee Lindem <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Cc: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>, = "[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>>, >> "[email protected] list <mailto:[email protected]%20list>" >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04 >>=20 >> Peter, Acee, agree that this was missed in architecture and we >> should have talked about multiple encaps on a link there (just >> like we mentioned the BSL conversion). Alas, it was = theoretical >> then and we missed. It was just a suggestion here to put it = into >> IGP draft as we did in ISIS. I'm fine whichever way you guys >> feel it's better and a clarification draft can be always >> published later after more experience in the field albeit it >> seems that the issue is straight fwd' for most old hands, it's = a >> link local decision so just use any matching encaps to = transfer, >> however the computation has to agree to prevent blackholes = ... >>=20 >> Otherwise went through the important sections on -11 and looks >> good to me, no further comments. Thanks for the work >>=20 >> --- tony >>=20 >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 7:58 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> With respect to the text in section 5.2, I agree with Peter. >>=20 >> Thanks >> Acee >>=20 >> On 2/12/18, 9:59 AM, "BIER on behalf of Peter Psenak = (ppsenak)" >> <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected] >> = <mailto:[email protected]%20on%20behalf%20of%C2%[email protected]>> >> wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Tony, >>=20 >> OSPF does not have the original text, so it does not need >> the new one. >>=20 >> IMHO, the text in section 5 of ISIS BIER draft suits = better >> to the BIER >> architecture draft than to the IGP extension draft. >>=20 >> thanks, >> Peter >>=20 >>=20 >> On 09/02/18 20:17 , Tony Przygienda wrote: >> > Sure ;-) let me ping Peter @ the bottom then ... I = don't >> think any of >> > the stuff applies to OSPF (was ISIS nits) except we can >> consider an >> > encaps paragraph. We basically suggest both to replace = in >> ISIS the >> > encaps section like this >> > >> > before: >> > >> > " >> > All routers in the flooding scope of the BIER TLVs >> MUST advertise the >> > same encapsulation for a given <MT,SD>. A router >> discovering >> > encapsulation advertised that is different from its >> own MUST report a >> > misconfiguration of a specific <MT,SD>. All = received >> BIER >> > advertisements associated with the conflicting <MT, >> SD> pair MUST be >> > ignored. >> > >> > " >> > >> > now >> > >> > " >> > >> > Multiple encapsulations MAY be advertised/supported >> for a given >> > <MT,SD>. Clearly, however, there MUST be at least >> one encapsulation >> > type in common in order for a BIER encapsulated >> packet to be >> > successfully forwarded between two BFRs. >> > >> > " >> > >> > I do think that OSPF would benefit from adding this >> section to clarify >> > the issue which is not theoretical now that we have = Ethernet. >> > >> > >> > So Peter, any ETA on outstanding OSPF nits now that = we're >> tying up the >> > IETF LC? >> > >> > thanks >> > >> > --- tony >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Greg Shepherd >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > No I didn't. Why would I? These are the changes you >> and Les worked >> > out. I assumed you'd share them as needed. If for >> some reason you're >> > uncomfortable engaging with the OSPF draft thread = and >> authors with >> > your proposed changes, let me know and I'll broker >> the conversation. >> > >> > Greg >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Tony Przygienda >> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%20%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> >> wrote: >> > >> > Les has the diff, I'd expect him to publish any >> minute to the >> > list ... The encaps was a real defect, the rest >> is just >> > tightening down the language/spec where it was >> too loose/too >> > strict. >> > >> > OSPF still needs update with conversion TLV >> removed, same >> > paragraph on encaps could be useful. I hope = Greg >> pinged Peter ... >> > >> > thanks >> > >> > tony >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Alia Atlas >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:46 PM, Tony = Przygienda >> > <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%20%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> >> wrote: >> > >> > Went last nits with Les, we found one >> issue (encaps >> > section was wrong, need to look @ OSPF = as >> well) and >> > basically tightened language in few = places. >> > >> > >> > K - please get that out with the details = of >> changes to the >> > list. I did my AD review back in Oct and >> looked at the >> > differences before issuing >> > IETF Last Call. >> > >> > I look forward to reviewing the minor = changes. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Alia >> > >> > tony >> > >> > On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Greg = Shepherd >> > <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%20%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> = wrote: >> > >> > Thanks Les. >> > >> > Any other feedback? Looks like the >> concerns have >> > been addressed. Speak now. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Greg >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Les >> Ginsberg >> > (ginsberg) <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > Greg =E2=80=93____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > This thread is outdated.____ >> > >> > In V6 of the draft we removed = the >> restriction to >> > limit IS-IS BIER support to = area >> boundaries =E2=80=93 so >> > Toerless=E2=80=99s comment (and = my >> proposed text) are no >> > longer relevant.____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > Specifically:____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > Section 4.1:____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > =E2=80=9CAt present, IS-IS = support for a >> given BIER >> > domain/sub-domain is ____ >> > >> > limited to = a >> single area - >> > or to the IS-IS L2 = sub-domain.=E2=80=9D____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > The above text was removed.____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > Section 4.2____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > o BIER sub-TLVs MUST NOT be >> included when a >> > prefix reachability____ >> > >> > advertisement is leaked >> between levels.____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > Was changed to____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > o BIER sub-TLVs MUST be = included >> when a prefix >> > reachability____ >> > >> > advertisement is leaked >> between levels.____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > This aligns IS-IS and OSPF = drafts >> in this >> > regard.____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > Les____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > *From:*Greg Shepherd >> [mailto:[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]> >> = <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%3e%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A= 0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%= 20%C2%A0%20%3cmailto:[email protected]%3e>] >> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 01, >> 2018 2:23 AM >> > *To:* Toerless Eckert = <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >> > <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Tony Przygienda >> > <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Hannes Gredler >> > ([email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>) >> > <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%20%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; >> > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>; >> > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> list >> > <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%20%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; >> > Christian Hopps = <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > >> > >> > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WGLC: >> > >> draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > Have these changes been = reflected >> in the draft? >> > We're in WGLC but this = discussion >> needs to come >> > to a conclusion so we can >> progress. ____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > Greg____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 12:52 = PM, >> Toerless >> > Eckert <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%20%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> >> > wrote:____ >> > >> > Thanks, Less, that would be >> lovely! >> > >> > I didn't check the OSPF >> draft, if its >> > similar state, explanatory >> text wold equally >> > be appreciated.____ >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at >> 11:28:08PM +0000, >> > Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >> > > Toerless - >> > > >> > > I am thinking to add a >> statement in >> > Section 4.1 - something = like: >> > > >> > > "At present, IS-IS = support >> for a given >> > BIER domain/sub-domain is >> limited to a >> > single area - or to the = IS-IS >> L2 sub-domain." >> > > >> > > If you believe this = would >> be helpful I >> > will spin a new version >> (subject to >> > review/agreement from my >> co-authors). >> > > >> > > Les >> > > >> > > >> > > > -----Original = Message----- >> > > > From: Toerless Eckert >> > [mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]%20%3cmailto:[email protected]%3e>] >> > > > Sent: Saturday, July = 22, >> 2017 6:34 AM >> > > > To: Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) >> > > > Cc: Tony Przygienda; >> Hannes Gredler >> > ([email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> > = <mailto:[email protected]>); >> Greg Shepherd; >> > > > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>; >> > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > list; Christian Hopps >> > > > Subject: Re: [Bier] = WGLC: >> > >> draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04 >> > > > >> > > > Thanks Les >> > > > >> > > > When searching various >> terms in the doc >> > to figure out what happens = i >> am not >> > > > sure why i missed this = one. >> > > > >> > > > But: IMHO, RFCs can = not >> only be the >> > minimum number of words to = get a >> > > > running = implementation. >> It also needs >> > to specify what this >> implementation >> > > > intends to achieve. >> Otherwise its not >> > possible to do a useful = review: >> > > > The reviewer can to >> verify whether the >> > spec will achieve what it >> claims to >> > > > achieve is there no >> definitionn of what >> > it claims to achieve. >> > > > >> > > > If i understand ISIS >> correctly, my >> > reverse engineering of the >> intent is: >> > > > >> > > > - BIER TLVs stay = within >> single ISIS >> > areas. BFIR and BFER must >> therefore be >> > > > in the same ISIS = area: >> There is no >> > inter-area BIER traffic = possible >> > > > with this >> specification. This is also >> > true for ISIS area 0. >> > > > >> > > > - The same BIER >> sub-domain identifiers >> > can be re-used >> > > > across different = ISIS >> areas without >> > any current impact. If = these >> BFR-IDs >> > > > are non-overlapping, >> then this would >> > allow in the future to = create >> a single >> > > > cross ISIS area BIER >> sub-domain by >> > leaking TLVs for such a = BIER >> sub-domain >> > > > across ISIS levels. >> Leakage is >> > outside the scope of this >> specificication. >> > > > >> > > > I actually even would >> like to do the >> > following: >> > > > >> > > > - If BIER sub-domains >> are made to span >> > multiple ISIS areas and = BFR-ids >> > > > assignemtns >> > > > are made such that = all >> BFR-ids with >> > the same SI are in the same >> ISIS ara, >> > > > then it should be in >> the future >> > reasonably easy to create >> inter-area BIER >> > > > not by leaking of = the >> BIER TLV but by >> > having BFIR MPLS = unicastBIER >> packets >> > > > for different SIs to >> an appropriate >> > L2L1 BFIR that is part of = the >> destination >> > > > area/SI. >> > > > (if you would use SI >> number that are >> > the same as ISIS area = numbers >> then >> > > > you could probably = do >> this without >> > any new signaling. Not = quite >> sure if >> > > > you can today = easily >> find L1L2 >> > border router for another >> area via existing >> > > > TLVs). >> > > > >> > > > Alas, this idea will >> probably be >> > killed because of the BIER >> architecture >> > > > intent not to = engineer >> SI assignments >> > in geographical fashions to >> > > > minimize traffic >> duplication in the >> > presence of multiple SIs. >> > > > >> > > > Cheers >> > > > Toerless >> > > > >> > > > On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 = at >> 06:03:53AM >> > +0000, Les Ginsberg >> (ginsberg) wrote: >> > > > > Tony/Toerless ??? >> > > > > >> > > > > There is an explicit >> statement as to >> > scope: >> > > > > >> > > > > <snip> >> > > > > Section 4.2 >> > > > > ??? >> > > > > o BIER sub-TLVs >> MUST NOT be >> > included when a prefix >> reachability >> > > > > advertisement = is >> leaked between >> > levels. >> > > > > <end snip> >> > > > > >> > > > > Tony seems to have >> forgotten that we >> > had a discussion about how = BIER >> > > > might be supported >> across areas and the >> > conclusion was we did not = know >> > > > how to do that yet. >> > > > > (Sorry Tony) >> > > > > >> > > > > Note this is >> ???consistent??? with >> > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier- >> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-> >> > >> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier- >> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier->> >> > > > >> ospf-bier-extensions-07.txt Section >> > >> 2.5<https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf- >> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf- >> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf->> >> > > > >> > >> bier-ospf-bier-extensions-07.txt%20Section%202.5> >> > - which limits the >> > > > flooding scope of BIER >> information to a >> > single area unless it can = be >> validated >> > > > that the best path to >> the prefix with >> > BIER info can be validated = to >> be to a >> > > > router which itself >> advertised the BIER >> > info. This is not something >> IS-IS can do >> > > > since a single IS-IS >> instance only >> > supports one area and >> therefore does not >> > > > have the Level-1 >> advertisements of the >> > originating router when = that >> router is >> > > > in another area. >> > > > > >> > > > > A few more responses >> inline. >> > > > > >> > > > > From: BIER >> > = [mailto:[email protected] >> > >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> = <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%3e%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20= %C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C= 2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%3cmailto:[email protected]%3e>] >> On Behalf Of >> > Tony Przygienda >> > > > > Sent: Friday, July = 21, >> 2017 5:17 AM >> > > > > To: Toerless Eckert >> > > > > Cc: Hannes Gredler >> ([email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > = <mailto:[email protected]>); >> Greg Shepherd; >> > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>; >> > > > > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> > <mailto:[email protected]> >> list; Christian Hopps >> > > > > Subject: Re: [Bier] = WGLC: >> > >> draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04 >> > > > > >> > > > > Terminology is a bit >> nits IMO since >> > the doc is reading clear >> enough for >> > > > someone who read BIER = & >> ISIS. I can >> > reread it or Les can = comment >> whether >> > > > we should tighten >> glossary ... >> > > > > >> > > > > With the scope I >> agree, that got lost >> > and the doc should be >> possibly rev'ed >> > > > before closing LC. = Yes, >> we flood AD >> > wide was the agreement but >> something >> > > > mentioning that this >> could change in >> > the future is good so we = are >> forced to >> > > > give it some thought = how >> that would >> > transition ... >> > > > > >> > > > > Thinking further >> though, in ISIS we >> > have a clean document = really. >> The BIER >> > > > sub-TLVs go into well >> defined TLVs in >> > terms of flooding scope. >> Normal L1-L2 >> > > > redistribution can be >> used to get the >> > info to all needed places >> AFAIS. So >> > > > maybe nothing needs to >> be written. I >> > wait for Les to chime in. >> > > > > >> > > > > OSPF I would have to >> look @ scopes >> > again & think whether we = need to >> > > > write something or = maybe >> Peter can >> > comment ... >> > > > > >> > > > > --- tony >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 >> at 8:27 AM, >> > Toerless Eckert >> > > > <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: >> > > > > Sorry, past the two >> weeks, but >> > hopefully benign textual >> comments: >> > > > > >> > > > > We tried to find an >> explicit >> > statement about the scope = of >> BIER TLVs - eg: >> > > > > are they meant to = stay >> within an >> > area, have some >> redistribution across >> > > > > areas/levels or not. >> > > > > >> > > > > Tony said WG = agreement >> was to have >> > these TLV be flooded across = the >> > > > > whole ISIS domain = for >> now (this >> > draft). So an explicit >> statement to that >> > > > effect would >> > > > > be great (All BIER >> sub-domains TLVs >> > are flooded across all ISIS >> areas/levels, >> > > > so they span the whole >> ISIS domain). >> > > > > >> > > > > Also, if future work >> may/should could >> > improve on that maybe some >> > > > > sentence about that = (i >> guess one >> > could just have ISIS >> intra-area BIER sub- >> > > > domains ?). >> > > > > >> > > > > Also: Do a check = about >> possible >> > ambiguity of any generic >> terms like >> > > > sub-domain, level, = area, >> topology so >> > that reader that don't know = the >> > > > terminology ofall >> protocols (ISIS, >> > BIER) by heart can easily >> know which >> > > > protocol is referred = to. >> > > > > >> > > > > [Les:] There is no >> mention of >> > ???level??? in the = document. >> > > > > The use of >> ???sub-domain??? is >> > clearly always associated >> with ???BIER???. >> > > > > ???topology??? is >> always used as an >> > RFC 5120 topology ??? = therefore >> > > > clearly an IS-IS = topology. >> > > > > There is only one = use >> of the term >> > ???area??? (in Section = 5.1). >> That text >> > > > might deserve a bit of >> clarification >> > given this might be either = a >> Level 1 area or >> > > > the Level2 sub-domain. >> I???ll take a >> > pass at it. >> > > > > (BTW ??? I am = talking >> about IS-IS >> > area/L2sub-domain Toerless. = ???) >> > > > > >> > > > > I don???t see that = any >> other >> > clarification is needed ??? >> but Toerless ??? if >> > > > you can point to any >> specific >> > sentences/paragraphs which >> you find confusing >> > > > - I???ll take a second = look. >> > > > > >> > > > > Les >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > I guess there are no >> BIER level, area >> > or topologies, but still = makes >> > > > > reading easier if = the >> doc would say >> > "ISIS level", "ISIS area", = or at >> > > > > least have them in = the >> Terminology >> > section. And probably in >> > > > > terminology say >> "domain -> in the >> > context of this document = the BIER >> > > > domain which is also = the >> same as the >> > ISIS domain" >> > > > > (which i hope is the >> correct >> > statement, see above). >> > > > > >> > > > > Cheers >> > > > > Toerless >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > > > > BIER mailing list >> > > > > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> > >> <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]%0b%C2%A0%20>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > > > > >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier> >> > >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > We???ve heard that a >> million monkeys >> > at a million keyboards = could >> > > > produce the complete >> works of >> > Shakespeare; now, thanks to >> the Internet, >> > > > we know that is not = true. >> > > > > ???Robert Wilensky >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > --- >> > > > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > BIER mailing list >> > [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier> >> > >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier>> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > BIER mailing list >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier> >> > >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier> >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier> >>=20 >> <image001.png> >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier> >>=20 >> <image001.png>____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> ____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier> >>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_4040506F-A773-4102-AACB-21822BF05CF6 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A65D3D32-0FE5-47A4-B564-A49FBE8C2D23" --Apple-Mail=_A65D3D32-0FE5-47A4-B564-A49FBE8C2D23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">+1<div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">But, I=E2=80=99m not yet sure if = we=E2=80=99re taking about a errata or a new draft.. I see different = ways to interpret the proposed text and Les=E2=80=99s = explanation.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">Thx,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">Ice.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote = type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On 13 Feb 2018, at 10:03, Peter Psenak <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hi Folks,<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">can we add an errata to RFC 8279, instead of adding the text = to both IGP drafts that does not really belong there.<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">thanks,<br class=3D"">Peter<br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 13/02/18 08:16 , Tony Przygienda wrote:<br = class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">+1 what Les says as my = understanding of the problem we're tackling here ...<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">--- tony<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at = 2:06 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)<br class=3D""><<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>> wrote:<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Ice =E2=80=93____<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = MY understanding is that =E2=80=93 in the future =E2=80=93 there = may be additional<br class=3D""> encaps defined for BIER. = When that happens, a given BFR may support<br class=3D""> = multiple encaps. In such a case, it is OK if other BFRs = supporting<br class=3D""> the same <MT,SD> only = support one of the set of encaps =E2=80=93 so long as<br class=3D""> = we have one encap in common we can successfully forward. I = believe<br class=3D""> that is the case the text change is = trying to address =E2=80=93 not encap vs<br class=3D""> no = encap. The original text would have required identical sets of<br = class=3D""> encaps to be supported by all BFRs for a give = <MT,SD> - which is<br class=3D""> unnecessarily = restrictive.____<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> Make sense?____<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Les____<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> *From:*IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)<br = class=3D""> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 1:50 PM<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""> *To:* Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>;<br class=3D""> = <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak)<br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>; <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> list <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WGLC: = draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04____<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = __ __<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> Les,____<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> (If MPLS encapsulation (Section = 2.1 of [MPLS_BIER_ENCAPS]) is<br class=3D""> = being used, this means that every BFR that is = advertising<br class=3D""> a label<br = class=3D""> for = sub-domain S is advertising a label for the<br class=3D""> = combination of<br class=3D""> = sub-domain S and Disposition BitStringLength = L.)____<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> It says, if MPLS encapsulation is used, there is = a Label for the<br class=3D""> {SD, BSL}. So, if there is = non-MPLS (ether) only, there will not be<br class=3D""> a = Label and the compatibility check will fail. Is that not the same<br = class=3D""> a router that does not support MPLS BIER, and = treated as a non-BIER<br class=3D""> router?____<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> [Les:] I don=E2=80=99t see how = this text can be used to mean =E2=80=9Cmultiple<br class=3D""> = encap types can be supported on the same BFR for a = given <MT,SD>=E2=80=9D.<br class=3D""> = ???____<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> Are these not like ships in the = night? Like an Prefix can be<br class=3D""> reachable over = MPLS and IP on the same interface? I do assume you<br class=3D""> = want to stay with the encapsulation that you where provisioned = in<br class=3D""> and not move from MPLS into non-MPLS. Why = do you need to say you can<br class=3D""> support = both?____<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> Thx,____<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Ice.____<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> On 12 Feb 2018, at 22:16, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg)<br class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>> wrote:<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Ice -<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> From: IJsbrand Wijnands = (iwijnand)<br class=3D""> Sent: Monday, = February 12, 2018 12:58 PM<br class=3D""> To: = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>;<br class=3D""> = <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak)<br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>; <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> list <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: = draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Les,<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Perhaps the thread is too long and = you have gotten confused. J<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Maybe :-), but...<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> The point being discussed now is = support for multiple<br class=3D""> = encapsulation types (BSL conversion was mentioned in the thread<br = class=3D""> =E2=80=93 but it is NOT the = subject being discussed at the moment).<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> I got that, it was removed after a = long debate sometime back.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br= class=3D""> In latest IS-IS BIER draft we = changed:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = > All routers in the flooding scope of the BIER = TLVs<br class=3D""> MUST advertise the<br = class=3D""> > = same encapsulation for a given <MT,SD>. A router<br = class=3D""> discovering<br class=3D""> = > encapsulation = advertised that is different from its<br class=3D""> = own MUST report a<br class=3D""> = > misconfiguration of a specific <MT,SD>. = All received<br class=3D""> BIER<br = class=3D""> > = advertisements associated with the conflicting <MT,<br = class=3D""> SD> pair MUST be<br = class=3D""> > = ignored.<br class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > "<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > to<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > "<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = Multiple encapsulations MAY be advertised/supported<br class=3D""> = for a given<br class=3D""> = > <MT,SD>. Clearly, = however, there MUST be at least<br class=3D""> = one encapsulation<br class=3D""> = > type in common in order for a BIER = encapsulated<br class=3D""> packet to be<br = class=3D""> > = successfully forwarded between two BFRs.<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Point has been made that this really belongs in the = architecture<br class=3D""> RFC, but since it = isn=E2=80=99t there it may make sense for the IGP<br class=3D""> = drafts to mention it.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Below is taken from "6.10.1. = BitStringLength Compatibility<br class=3D""> = Check=E2=80=9D RFC 8279, does this not cover it?<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> ****<br class=3D""> = The combination of sub-domain S and Imposition = BitStringLength L<br class=3D""> = passes the BitStringLength Compatibility Check if and only<br = class=3D""> if the<br class=3D""> = following condition holds:<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Every BFR = that has advertised its membership in<br class=3D""> = sub-domain S has<br class=3D""> = also advertised that it is using Disposition<br = class=3D""> BitStringLength L<br = class=3D""> (and = possibly other BitStringLengths as well) in that<br class=3D""> = sub-domain.<br class=3D""> = (If MPLS encapsulation (Section 2.1 of = [MPLS_BIER_ENCAPS]) is<br class=3D""> = being used, this means that every BFR that is = advertising<br class=3D""> a label<br = class=3D""> for = sub-domain S is advertising a label for the<br class=3D""> = combination of<br class=3D""> = sub-domain S and Disposition BitStringLength L.)<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> If a BFIR has been = provisioned to use a particular Imposition<br class=3D""> = BitStringLength and a particular sub-domain = for some set of<br class=3D""> packets,<br = class=3D""> and if that = combination of Imposition BitStringLength and<br class=3D""> = sub-domain<br class=3D""> = does not pass the BitStringLength Compatibility Check, the = BFIR<br class=3D""> SHOULD log = this fact as an error.<br class=3D""> ****<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> [Les:] I don=E2=80=99= t see how this text can be used to mean =E2=80=9Cmultiple<br = class=3D""> encap types can be supported on = the same BFR for a given <MT,SD>=E2=80=9D.<br class=3D""> = ???<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Les<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Thx,<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Ice.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""> In = the case of IS-IS, because earlier versions of the draft had<br = class=3D""> an explicit statement which we now = consider too limiting, it<br class=3D""> made = sense to make an explicit statement of the more flexible<br = class=3D""> behavior.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> In the case of OSPF, the overly = restrictive text was never<br class=3D""> = present, so it is more debatable as to whether the clarifying<br = class=3D""> statement is needed =E2=80=93 but = doing so keeps the drafts in sync.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Still, the =E2=80=9Cright solution=E2=80=9D would be = to have the statement in<br class=3D""> RFC = 8279 =E2=80=93 but a bit late for that.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Les<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> From: IJsbrand = Wijnands (iwijnand)<br class=3D""> Sent: = Monday, February 12, 2018 12:05 PM<br class=3D""> = To: Acee Lindem (acee) <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = Cc: Tony Przygienda <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>; Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)<br class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>; <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>; <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> list <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>; Peter Psenak = (ppsenak)<br class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: = draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Folks,<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = I would say its wrong to try and fix the BIER architecture = by<br class=3D""> adding this into the IGP = drafts. The IGP is a pass-through for<br class=3D""> = the BIER information, and adding this text seems to imply that<br = class=3D""> the IGP now needs to become BIER = aware in order to detect and<br class=3D""> = trigger notifications of encapsulation incompatibilities.<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> The BIER = architecture RFC 8279 has section 6.10 "Use of<br class=3D""> = Different BitStringLengths within a Domain=E2=80=9D, = what is missing in<br class=3D""> that section = that would justify the IGP to become aware of<br class=3D""> = BitStringLength differences? IMO everything is = covered.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> Thx,<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> Ice.<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""> On = 12 Feb 2018, at 19:33, Acee Lindem (acee) <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>> wrote:<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""> Hi Tony,<br class=3D""> = I agree that since architecture has been published, = it would not<br class=3D""> hurt to add the = 5.2 text to the IGP documents.<br class=3D""> = Thanks,<br class=3D""> Acee<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> From: Tony = Przygienda <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = Date: Monday, February 12, 2018 at 12:13 PM<br = class=3D""> To: Acee Lindem <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = Cc: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>, "Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)"<br class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>, "<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>,<br class=3D""> = "<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> list <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20list>"<br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: = draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Peter, Acee, agree that this was missed in = architecture and we<br class=3D""> should have = talked about multiple encaps on a link there (just<br class=3D""> = like we mentioned the BSL conversion). Alas, it was = theoretical<br class=3D""> then and we missed. = It was just a suggestion here to put it into<br class=3D""> = IGP draft as we did in ISIS. I'm fine whichever way you = guys<br class=3D""> feel it's better and a = clarification draft can be always<br class=3D""> = published later after more experience in the field albeit it<br = class=3D""> seems that the issue is straight = fwd' for most old hands, it's a<br class=3D""> = link local decision so just use any matching encaps to = transfer,<br class=3D""> however the = computation has to agree to prevent blackholes ...<br class=3D""><br= class=3D""> Otherwise went through the = important sections on -11 and looks<br class=3D""> = good to me, no further comments. Thanks for the work<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> --- tony<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> On Mon, Feb 12, = 2018 at 7:58 AM, Acee Lindem (acee)<br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>> wrote:<br class=3D""> = With respect to the text in section 5.2, I agree = with Peter.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Thanks<br class=3D""> Acee<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> On 2/12/18, 9:59 = AM, "BIER on behalf of Peter Psenak (ppsenak)"<br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> on behalf of <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20on%20behalf%20of%C2%<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = wrote:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = Hi Tony,<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = OSPF does not have the original text, so it = does not need<br class=3D""> the new one.<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> = IMHO, the text in section 5 of ISIS BIER draft suits better<br = class=3D""> to the BIER<br class=3D""> = architecture draft than to the IGP = extension draft.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = thanks,<br class=3D""> = Peter<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = On 09/02/18 20:17 , Tony Przygienda = wrote:<br class=3D""> > Sure = ;-) let me ping Peter @ the bottom then ... I don't<br = class=3D""> think any of<br class=3D""> = > the stuff applies to OSPF (was = ISIS nits) except we can<br class=3D""> = consider an<br class=3D""> = > encaps paragraph. We basically suggest both to replace in<br = class=3D""> ISIS the<br class=3D""> = > encaps section like this<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > before:<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > "<br = class=3D""> > = All routers in the flooding scope of the BIER TLVs<br class=3D""> = MUST advertise the<br class=3D""> = > same encapsulation for a = given <MT,SD>. A router<br class=3D""> = discovering<br class=3D""> = > encapsulation advertised that is different = from its<br class=3D""> own MUST report a<br = class=3D""> > = misconfiguration of a specific <MT,SD>. All received<br = class=3D""> BIER<br class=3D""> = > advertisements associated = with the conflicting <MT,<br class=3D""> = SD> pair MUST be<br class=3D""> = > ignored.<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > "<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > now<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > "<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = Multiple encapsulations MAY be advertised/supported<br class=3D""> = for a given<br class=3D""> = > <MT,SD>. Clearly, = however, there MUST be at least<br class=3D""> = one encapsulation<br class=3D""> = > type in common in order for a BIER = encapsulated<br class=3D""> packet to be<br = class=3D""> > = successfully forwarded between two BFRs.<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > "<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > I do think that OSPF would benefit from adding this<br = class=3D""> section to clarify<br = class=3D""> > the issue = which is not theoretical now that we have Ethernet.<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > So Peter, any ETA on outstanding OSPF nits now = that we're<br class=3D""> tying up the<br = class=3D""> > IETF LC?<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > thanks<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > --- tony<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > On Fri, Feb 9, = 2018 at 11:12 AM, Greg Shepherd<br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>> wrote:<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > No I didn't. Why would I? = These are the changes you<br class=3D""> and = Les worked<br class=3D""> > = out. I assumed you'd share them as needed. If for<br = class=3D""> some reason you're<br = class=3D""> > = uncomfortable engaging with the OSPF draft thread and<br class=3D""> = authors with<br class=3D""> = > your proposed changes, let me = know and I'll broker<br class=3D""> the = conversation.<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = Greg<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Tony Przygienda<br = class=3D""> > = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20%3cmailto:tonysietf@<a = href=3D"http://gmail.com" class=3D"">gmail.com</a>>>><br = class=3D""> wrote:<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > Les has the diff, = I'd expect him to publish any<br class=3D""> = minute to the<br class=3D""> = > list ... The encaps was a real = defect, the rest<br class=3D""> is just<br = class=3D""> > = tightening down the language/spec where it was<br = class=3D""> too loose/too<br class=3D""> = > = strict.<br class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = OSPF still needs update with conversion TLV<br = class=3D""> removed, same<br class=3D""> = > = paragraph on encaps could be useful. I hope Greg<br class=3D""> = pinged Peter ...<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > thanks<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > tony<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Alia Atlas<br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>> wrote:<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:46 PM, Tony = Przygienda<br class=3D""> > = <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20%3cmailto:tonysietf@<a = href=3D"http://gmail.com" class=3D"">gmail.com</a>>>><br = class=3D""> wrote:<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = Went last nits with Les, we found one<br class=3D""> = issue (encaps<br class=3D""> = > = section was wrong, need to look @ OSPF as<br = class=3D""> well) and<br class=3D""> = > = basically tightened language in few = places.<br class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = K - please get that out with the = details of<br class=3D""> changes to the<br = class=3D""> > = list. I did my AD review back in Oct = and<br class=3D""> looked at the<br = class=3D""> > = differences before issuing<br = class=3D""> > = IETF Last Call.<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > I = look forward to reviewing the minor changes.<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = Regards,<br class=3D""> > = Alia<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = tony<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > On = Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Greg Shepherd<br class=3D""> = > = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20%3cmailto:gjshep@<a = href=3D"http://gmail.com" class=3D"">gmail.com</a>>>> wrote:<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = Thanks Les.<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = Any other = feedback? Looks like the<br class=3D""> = concerns have<br class=3D""> = > = been addressed. Speak now.<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = Cheers,<br class=3D""> = > = Greg<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Les<br = class=3D""> Ginsberg<br class=3D""> = > = (ginsberg) <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>> wrote:<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = = Greg =E2=80=93____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = = This thread is outdated.____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = In V6 of the draft we removed = the<br class=3D""> restriction to<br = class=3D""> > = = limit IS-IS BIER support to area<br class=3D""> = boundaries =E2=80=93 so<br class=3D""> = > = Toerless=E2=80=99s comment (and my<br = class=3D""> proposed text) are no<br = class=3D""> > = = longer relevant.____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = = Specifically:____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = Section 4.1:____<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = __ = __<br class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = = =E2=80=9CAt present, IS-IS support for a<br class=3D""> = given BIER<br class=3D""> = > = domain/sub-domain is ____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = = limited to a<br = class=3D""> single area -<br class=3D""> = > = or to the IS-IS = L2 sub-domain.=E2=80=9D____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = The above text was removed.____<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = __ = __<br class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = = Section 4.2____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = = o BIER sub-TLVs MUST NOT be<br class=3D""> = included when a<br class=3D""> = > = prefix reachability____<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = = advertisement is leaked<br class=3D""> = between levels.____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = Was changed to____<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = __ = __<br class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = o = BIER sub-TLVs MUST be included<br class=3D""> = when a prefix<br class=3D""> = > = reachability____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = = advertisement is leaked<br class=3D""> = between levels.____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = This aligns IS-IS and OSPF drafts<br = class=3D""> in this<br class=3D""> = > = regard.____<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = __ = __<br class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = = Les____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = *From:*Greg Shepherd<br = class=3D""> [<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = > = <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%3e%20%C2%A0%20= %C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C= 2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%3cmailto:gjshep@<a href=3D"http://gmail.com" = class=3D"">gmail.com</a>%3e>]<br class=3D""> = > = *Sent:* Thursday, February = 01,<br class=3D""> 2018 2:23 AM<br = class=3D""> > = = *To:* Toerless Eckert <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = > = *Cc:* Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)<br class=3D""> > = = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>; Tony Przygienda<br = class=3D""> > = = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>; Hannes Gredler<br = class=3D""> > = = (<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>)<br class=3D""> = > = <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20%3cmailto:hannes@<a = href=3D"http://gredler.at" class=3D"">gredler.at</a>>>>;<br = class=3D""> > <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>;<br class=3D""> = > <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br= class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>> list<br class=3D""> = > = <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br= class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20%3cmailto:isis-<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a>>>>;<br = class=3D""> > = = Christian Hopps <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WGLC:<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> = draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = Have these changes been = reflected<br class=3D""> in the draft?<br = class=3D""> > = = We're in WGLC but this discussion<br class=3D""> = needs to come<br class=3D""> = > = to a conclusion so we can<br class=3D""> = progress. ____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = Greg____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = On = Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 12:52 PM,<br class=3D""> = Toerless<br class=3D""> = > = Eckert <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20%3cmailto:tte@<a = href=3D"http://cs.fau.de" class=3D"">cs.fau.de</a>>>><br = class=3D""> > = = wrote:____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> > = = Thanks, Less, that would be<br class=3D""> = lovely!<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = I didn't check the OSPF<br = class=3D""> draft, if its<br class=3D""> = > = = similar state, explanatory<br class=3D""> text = wold equally<br class=3D""> = > = be appreciated.____<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = = On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at<br class=3D""> = 11:28:08PM +0000,<br class=3D""> = > = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote:<br class=3D""> > = = > Toerless -<br class=3D""> = > = = ><br class=3D""> > = = > I am thinking to add a<br = class=3D""> statement in<br class=3D""> = > = = Section 4.1 - something like:<br class=3D""> = > = ><br = class=3D""> > = = > "At present, IS-IS support<br class=3D""> = for a given<br class=3D""> = > = BIER = domain/sub-domain is<br class=3D""> limited to = a<br class=3D""> > = = single area - or to the IS-IS<br class=3D""> = L2 sub-domain."<br class=3D""> = > = ><br = class=3D""> > = = > If you believe this would<br class=3D""> = be helpful I<br class=3D""> = > = will spin a new = version<br class=3D""> (subject to<br = class=3D""> > = = review/agreement from my<br class=3D""> = co-authors).<br class=3D""> = > = ><br = class=3D""> > = = > Les<br class=3D""> = > = = ><br class=3D""> > = = ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > -----Original Message-----<br class=3D""> = > = = > > From: Toerless Eckert<br class=3D""> = > = [<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%20%3cmailto:tte@<a = href=3D"http://cs.fau.de" class=3D"">cs.fau.de</a>%3e>]<br = class=3D""> > = = > > Sent: Saturday, July 22,<br = class=3D""> 2017 6:34 AM<br class=3D""> = > = = > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)<br class=3D""> = > = = > > Cc: Tony Przygienda;<br class=3D""> = Hannes Gredler<br class=3D""> = > = (<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = > = <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>);<br class=3D""> = Greg Shepherd;<br class=3D""> = > = > > = <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>;<br class=3D""> = > <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br= class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = > = = list; Christian Hopps<br class=3D""> = > = > > Subject: Re: = [Bier] WGLC:<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04<br class=3D""> = > = = > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > Thanks Les<br = class=3D""> > = = > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > When = searching various<br class=3D""> terms in the = doc<br class=3D""> > = = to figure out what happens i<br class=3D""> = am not<br class=3D""> = > = > > sure = why i missed this one.<br class=3D""> = > = > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > But: IMHO, RFCs can not<br class=3D""> = only be the<br class=3D""> = > = minimum number = of words to get a<br class=3D""> = > = > > running = implementation.<br class=3D""> It also = needs<br class=3D""> > = = to specify what this<br class=3D""> = implementation<br class=3D""> = > = > > = intends to achieve.<br class=3D""> Otherwise = its not<br class=3D""> > = = possible to do a useful review:<br = class=3D""> > = = > > The reviewer can to<br class=3D""> = verify whether the<br class=3D""> = > = spec will = achieve what it<br class=3D""> claims to<br = class=3D""> > = = > > achieve is there no<br class=3D""> = definitionn of what<br class=3D""> = > = it claims = to achieve.<br class=3D""> > = = > ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > If i understand ISIS<br class=3D""> = correctly, my<br class=3D""> = > = reverse engineering of the<br = class=3D""> intent is:<br class=3D""> = > = = > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > - BIER TLVs stay = within<br class=3D""> single ISIS<br = class=3D""> > = = areas. BFIR and BFER must<br class=3D""> = therefore be<br class=3D""> = > = > > = in the same ISIS area:<br class=3D""> There is = no<br class=3D""> > = = inter-area BIER traffic possible<br class=3D""> = > = = > > with this<br class=3D""> = specification. This is also<br class=3D""> = > = true for ISIS = area 0.<br class=3D""> > = = > ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > - The same BIER<br class=3D""> = sub-domain identifiers<br class=3D""> = > = can be re-used<br = class=3D""> > = = > > across different ISIS<br = class=3D""> areas without<br class=3D""> = > = = any current impact. If these<br class=3D""> = BFR-IDs<br class=3D""> = > = > > are = non-overlapping,<br class=3D""> then this = would<br class=3D""> > = = allow in the future to create<br = class=3D""> a single<br class=3D""> = > = = > > cross ISIS area BIER<br class=3D""> = sub-domain by<br class=3D""> = > = leaking TLVs for such a = BIER<br class=3D""> sub-domain<br = class=3D""> > = = > > across ISIS levels.<br = class=3D""> Leakage is<br class=3D""> = > = = outside the scope of this<br class=3D""> = specificication.<br class=3D""> = > = > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > I actually even would<br class=3D""> = like to do the<br class=3D""> = > = following:<br = class=3D""> > = = > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > - If = BIER sub-domains<br class=3D""> are made to = span<br class=3D""> > = = multiple ISIS areas and BFR-ids<br class=3D""> = > = = > > assignemtns<br class=3D""> = > = > > = are made such that all<br class=3D""> BFR-ids = with<br class=3D""> > = = the same SI are in the same<br class=3D""> = ISIS ara,<br class=3D""> = > = > > = then it should be in<br class=3D""> the = future<br class=3D""> > = = reasonably easy to create<br class=3D""> = inter-area BIER<br class=3D""> = > = > > = not by leaking of the<br class=3D""> = BIER TLV but by<br class=3D""> = > = having BFIR MPLS = unicastBIER<br class=3D""> packets<br = class=3D""> > = = > > for different SIs to<br = class=3D""> an appropriate<br class=3D""> = > = = L2L1 BFIR that is part of the<br class=3D""> = destination<br class=3D""> = > = > > area/SI.<br = class=3D""> > = = > > (if you would use SI<br = class=3D""> number that are<br class=3D""> = > = = the same as ISIS area numbers<br class=3D""> = then<br class=3D""> > = = > > you could = probably do<br class=3D""> this without<br = class=3D""> > = = any new signaling. Not quite<br class=3D""> = sure if<br class=3D""> = > = > > = you can today easily<br class=3D""> find = L1L2<br class=3D""> > = = border router for another<br class=3D""> = area via existing<br class=3D""> = > = > > = TLVs).<br class=3D""> = > = > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > Alas, this idea will<br = class=3D""> probably be<br class=3D""> = > = = killed because of the BIER<br class=3D""> = architecture<br class=3D""> = > = > > intent = not to engineer<br class=3D""> SI = assignments<br class=3D""> > = = in geographical fashions to<br = class=3D""> > = = > > minimize traffic<br class=3D""> = duplication in the<br class=3D""> = > = presence = of multiple SIs.<br class=3D""> = > = > ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > Cheers<br class=3D""> = > = > > = Toerless<br class=3D""> > = = > ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at<br class=3D""> = 06:03:53AM<br class=3D""> = > = +0000, Les Ginsberg<br = class=3D""> (ginsberg) wrote:<br = class=3D""> > = = > > > Tony/Toerless ???<br class=3D""> = > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > > There is = an explicit<br class=3D""> statement as to<br = class=3D""> > = = scope:<br class=3D""> = > = > > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > > <snip><br class=3D""> = > = = > > > Section 4.2<br class=3D""> = > = > > = > ???<br class=3D""> > = = > > > o = BIER sub-TLVs<br class=3D""> MUST NOT = be<br class=3D""> > = = included when a prefix<br class=3D""> = reachability<br class=3D""> = > = > > > = advertisement is<br class=3D""> = leaked between<br class=3D""> = > = levels.<br class=3D""> = > = = > > > <end snip><br class=3D""> = > = > > = ><br class=3D""> > = = > > > Tony seems to have<br = class=3D""> forgotten that we<br = class=3D""> > = = had a discussion about how BIER<br class=3D""> = > = = > > might be supported<br class=3D""> = across areas and the<br class=3D""> = > = conclusion was we did = not know<br class=3D""> > = = > > how to do that yet.<br = class=3D""> > = = > > > (Sorry Tony)<br class=3D""> = > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > > Note this = is<br class=3D""> ???consistent??? with<br = class=3D""> > <a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-</a>><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-</a>>><br = class=3D""> > = = > ><br class=3D""> = ospf-bier-extensions-07.txt Section<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = 2.5<<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-</a><br class=3D""> = <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-%0b%C2%A0%20" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-%0b%C2%A0%20</a>>><br = class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-</a>>><br = class=3D""> > = = > ><br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = bier-ospf-bier-extensions-07.txt%20Section%202.5><br = class=3D""> > = = - which limits the<br class=3D""> = > = > > = flooding scope of BIER<br class=3D""> = information to a<br class=3D""> = > = single area unless it can = be<br class=3D""> validated<br class=3D""> = > = = > > that the best path to<br class=3D""> = the prefix with<br class=3D""> = > = BIER info can be validated = to<br class=3D""> be to a<br class=3D""> = > = = > > router which itself<br class=3D""> = advertised the BIER<br class=3D""> = > = info. This is not = something<br class=3D""> IS-IS can do<br = class=3D""> > = = > > since a single IS-IS<br class=3D""> = instance only<br class=3D""> = > = supports one = area and<br class=3D""> therefore does not<br = class=3D""> > = = > > have the Level-1<br class=3D""> = advertisements of the<br class=3D""> = > = = originating router when that<br class=3D""> = router is<br class=3D""> = > = > > in another area.<br = class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > = > A few more responses<br class=3D""> = inline.<br class=3D""> = > = > > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > > From: BIER<br class=3D""> = > = = [<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = <mailto:bier-<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%3e%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%= 20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20= %C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20%3cmailto:bier-<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a>%3e>]<br class=3D""> = On Behalf Of<br class=3D""> = > = Tony Przygienda<br = class=3D""> > = = > > > Sent: Friday, July 21,<br = class=3D""> 2017 5:17 AM<br class=3D""> = > = = > > > To: Toerless Eckert<br class=3D""> = > = = > > > Cc: Hannes Gredler<br class=3D""> = (<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = > = <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>);<br class=3D""> = Greg Shepherd;<br class=3D""> = > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>;<br class=3D""> = > = = > > > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = > = <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = list; Christian Hopps<br class=3D""> = > = > > = > Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC:<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-04<br class=3D""> = > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > > = Terminology is a bit<br class=3D""> nits = IMO since<br class=3D""> = > = the doc is reading clear<br = class=3D""> enough for<br class=3D""> = > = = > > someone who read BIER &<br class=3D""> = ISIS. I can<br class=3D""> = > = reread it or Les can = comment<br class=3D""> whether<br = class=3D""> > = = > > we should tighten<br class=3D""> = glossary ...<br class=3D""> = > = > > = ><br class=3D""> > = = > > > With the scope I<br = class=3D""> agree, that got lost<br = class=3D""> > = = and the doc should be<br class=3D""> = possibly rev'ed<br class=3D""> = > = > > before closing = LC. Yes,<br class=3D""> we flood AD<br = class=3D""> > = = wide was the agreement but<br class=3D""> = something<br class=3D""> = > = > > mentioning = that this<br class=3D""> could change in<br = class=3D""> > = = the future is good so we are<br class=3D""> = forced to<br class=3D""> = > = > > give it some = thought how<br class=3D""> that would<br = class=3D""> > = = transition ...<br class=3D""> = > = > > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > > Thinking further<br class=3D""> = though, in ISIS we<br class=3D""> = > = have a = clean document really.<br class=3D""> The = BIER<br class=3D""> > = = > > sub-TLVs go into well<br = class=3D""> defined TLVs in<br class=3D""> = > = = terms of flooding scope.<br class=3D""> Normal = L1-L2<br class=3D""> > = = > > redistribution can be<br = class=3D""> used to get the<br class=3D""> = > = = info to all needed places<br class=3D""> = AFAIS. So<br class=3D""> = > = > > maybe nothing needs = to<br class=3D""> be written. I<br = class=3D""> > = = wait for Les to chime in.<br class=3D""> = > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > > OSPF I = would have to<br class=3D""> look @ scopes<br = class=3D""> > = = again & think whether we need to<br class=3D""> = > = = > > write something or maybe<br class=3D""> = Peter can<br class=3D""> = > = comment ...<br class=3D""> = > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > > --- = tony<br class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > > On Fri, Jul 21, 2017<br = class=3D""> at 8:27 AM,<br class=3D""> = > = = Toerless Eckert<br class=3D""> = > = > > <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>> wrote:<br = class=3D""> > = = > > > Sorry, past the two<br = class=3D""> weeks, but<br class=3D""> = > = = hopefully benign textual<br class=3D""> = comments:<br class=3D""> = > = > > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > > We tried to find an<br = class=3D""> explicit<br class=3D""> = > = = statement about the scope of<br class=3D""> = BIER TLVs - eg:<br class=3D""> = > = > > > are they = meant to stay<br class=3D""> within an<br = class=3D""> > = = area, have some<br class=3D""> = redistribution across<br class=3D""> = > = > > > = areas/levels or not.<br class=3D""> = > = > > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > > Tony said WG agreement<br = class=3D""> was to have<br class=3D""> = > = = these TLV be flooded across the<br class=3D""> = > = > > = > whole ISIS domain for<br class=3D""> now = (this<br class=3D""> > = = draft). So an explicit<br class=3D""> = statement to that<br class=3D""> = > = > > = effect would<br class=3D""> = > = > > > be great (All = BIER<br class=3D""> sub-domains TLVs<br = class=3D""> > = = are flooded across all ISIS<br class=3D""> = areas/levels,<br class=3D""> = > = > > so they = span the whole<br class=3D""> ISIS domain).<br = class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > = > Also, if future work<br class=3D""> = may/should could<br class=3D""> = > = improve on that maybe some<br = class=3D""> > = = > > > sentence about that (i<br = class=3D""> guess one<br class=3D""> = > = = could just have ISIS<br class=3D""> intra-area = BIER sub-<br class=3D""> > = = > > domains ?).<br = class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > = > Also: Do a check about<br class=3D""> = possible<br class=3D""> = > = ambiguity of any generic<br = class=3D""> terms like<br class=3D""> = > = = > > sub-domain, level, area,<br class=3D""> = topology so<br class=3D""> = > = that reader that don't = know the<br class=3D""> > = = > > terminology ofall<br = class=3D""> protocols (ISIS,<br = class=3D""> > = = BIER) by heart can easily<br class=3D""> = know which<br class=3D""> = > = > > protocol is = referred to.<br class=3D""> = > = > > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > > [Les:] There is no<br class=3D""> = mention of<br class=3D""> = > = ???level??? in = the document.<br class=3D""> = > = > > > The use of<br = class=3D""> ???sub-domain??? is<br = class=3D""> > = = clearly always associated<br class=3D""> = with ???BIER???.<br class=3D""> = > = > > > = ???topology??? is<br class=3D""> always used = as an<br class=3D""> > = = RFC 5120 topology ??? therefore<br = class=3D""> > = = > > clearly an IS-IS topology.<br = class=3D""> > = = > > > There is only one use<br = class=3D""> of the term<br class=3D""> = > = = ???area??? (in Section 5.1).<br class=3D""> = That text<br class=3D""> = > = > > might deserve a bit = of<br class=3D""> clarification<br = class=3D""> > = = given this might be either a<br class=3D""> = Level 1 area or<br class=3D""> = > = > > the = Level2 sub-domain.<br class=3D""> I???ll take = a<br class=3D""> > = = pass at it.<br class=3D""> = > = > > = > (BTW ??? I am talking<br class=3D""> = about IS-IS<br class=3D""> = > = area/L2sub-domain Toerless. = ???)<br class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > > I don???t see that any<br class=3D""> = other<br class=3D""> = > = clarification is needed ???<br = class=3D""> but Toerless ??? if<br = class=3D""> > = = > > you can point to any<br class=3D""> = specific<br class=3D""> = > = sentences/paragraphs = which<br class=3D""> you find confusing<br = class=3D""> > = = > > - I???ll take a second look.<br = class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > = > Les<br class=3D""> = > = > > ><br = class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > = > I guess there are no<br class=3D""> BIER = level, area<br class=3D""> > = = or topologies, but still makes<br = class=3D""> > = = > > > reading easier if the<br = class=3D""> doc would say<br class=3D""> = > = = "ISIS level", "ISIS area", or at<br class=3D""> = > = > > = > least have them in the<br class=3D""> = Terminology<br class=3D""> = > = section. And probably in<br = class=3D""> > = = > > > terminology say<br class=3D""> = "domain -> in the<br class=3D""> = > = context = of this document the BIER<br class=3D""> = > = > > domain = which is also the<br class=3D""> same as = the<br class=3D""> > = = ISIS domain"<br class=3D""> = > = > > = > (which i hope is the<br class=3D""> = correct<br class=3D""> = > = statement, see above).<br = class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > = > Cheers<br class=3D""> > = = > > > = Toerless<br class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = _______________________________________________<br class=3D""> = > = = > > > BIER mailing list<br class=3D""> = > = = > > > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>%0b%C2%A0%20>><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>>><br = class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > = ><br class=3D""> > = = > > ><br class=3D""> = > = = > > > --<br class=3D""> = > = > > > We???ve = heard that a<br class=3D""> million monkeys<br = class=3D""> > = = at a million keyboards could<br class=3D""> = > = = > > produce the complete<br class=3D""> = works of<br class=3D""> = > = Shakespeare; now, thanks to<br = class=3D""> the Internet,<br class=3D""> = > = = > > we know that is not true.<br class=3D""> = > = = > > > ???Robert Wilensky<br class=3D""> = > = = > ><br class=3D""> = > = > > --<br class=3D""> = > = = > > ---<br class=3D""> = > = > > <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a><br = class=3D""> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>>____<br class=3D""> = ><br class=3D""> = > = __ __<br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> = _______________________________________________<br class=3D""> = > = BIER mailing list<br class=3D""> = > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br class=3D""> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>>><br class=3D""> = > <a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>>><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""> > = _______________________________________________<br class=3D""> = > BIER mailing list<br = class=3D""> > <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br = class=3D""> > <a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>><br = class=3D""> ><br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> = _______________________________________________<br class=3D""> = BIER mailing list<br class=3D""> = <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>><br = class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = _______________________________________________<br = class=3D""> BIER mailing list<br = class=3D""> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>><br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> = <image001.png><br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = _______________________________________________<br = class=3D""> BIER mailing list<br = class=3D""> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br class=3D""> = <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>><br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> = <image001.png>____<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = __ __<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> ____<br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> __ __<br class=3D""><br = class=3D""><br class=3D""> = _______________________________________________<br class=3D""> = BIER mailing list<br class=3D""> <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">mailto:[email protected]</a>><br = class=3D""> <a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br = class=3D""> <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" = class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a>><br = class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote><br = class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><span><img = height=3D"278" width=3D"569" apple-inline=3D"yes" = id=3D"859FF9CD-1139-4BE4-AB2F-E1B10529B397" apple-width=3D"yes" = apple-height=3D"yes" = src=3D"cid:[email protected]" = class=3D""></span><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_A65D3D32-0FE5-47A4-B564-A49FBE8C2D23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=PastedGraphic-6.png Content-Type: image/png; name="PastedGraphic-6.png" Content-Id: <[email protected]> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAjkAAAEWCAYAAACE+YYTAAAKvGlDQ1BJQ0MgUHJvZmlsZQAASImV 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