Re: [Bier] BAR field length in draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions and draft-ietf-bier-ospf-extensions

Tony Przygienda <[email protected]> Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:37:24 -0800
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.isis
Message-ID <CA+wi2hPoTA0u2rx0f5eoBsoOAH+m1uN0ggr=P7sSYFcX=1qQxw__3785.17156136713$1519140974$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com>
--===============2539115662610804248==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c7fa8b48d730565a69873"

--f403045c7fa8b48d730565a69873
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

all the implementations I am aware off can adjust to Option A) with BAR
registry without problems, neither do I see a problem with option B) given
we are talking only 0/0 being in IGP RFC @ this point in time. thanks. tony

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:15 PM, Alia Atlas <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have one additional question for those with implementations or testing
> them.
>
> What is the impact of going with your preferred option in terms of
> interoperability?  It may be early enough that changes can happen, but more
> feedback is needed.
>
> For those favoring Option B, could you send email to the list providing
> exact text so we have the details?
>
> For those favoring the current status without an IANA registry, are you
> able to handle one being imposed during IESG Review?  It is an obvious
> concern to raise.  Are you just prolonging or postponing the discussion?
>
> Regards,
> Aka
>
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2018 11:53 PM, "Senthil Dhanaraj" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> +1 to Option-B
>>
>> Seems future proof to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Senthil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* BIER [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Alia Atlas
>> *Sent:* 20 February 2018 03:21
>> *To:* BIER WG <[email protected]>; [email protected] list <[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* [Bier] BAR field length in draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions
>> and draft-ietf-bier-ospf-extensions
>>
>>
>>
>> As the Sponsoring AD for draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07 and
>> draft-ietf-bier-ospf-extensions-12, I have been following the discussion
>> on the mailing list with interest.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have not seen clear consensus for any change.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let me be clear on what I see the options are from the discussion.  Then
>> I'll elaborate
>>
>> a bit on how you can express your perspective most usefully.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Current Status:  Bier Algorithm (BAR) field is 8 bits.  Currently,
>> only value 0 is specified.  The drafts do not have an IANA registry - with
>> the expectation that one will be created when the first additional use is
>> clear.  It is possible that there will be objections from the IESG to
>> progressing without an IANA registry.  Given the lack of clarity for future
>> use-cases and after discussion, I decided not to force one after my AD
>> review - but I will not push back against having a BIER IANA registry if
>> raised by others.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) Option B:  Add a BAR sub-type of 8 bits.  This would modify the
>> current TLVs.
>>
>>    Define an IANA registry for the BAR type.  The meaning of the BAR
>> sub-type derives
>>
>>    from the BAR type.   We can debate over the registration policy for
>> the BAR type.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3) Option C: Change the BAR field to be 16 bits and define an IANA
>> registry.  Part of the range can be FCFS with Expert Review, part can be
>> Specification Required, and part can be IETF Consensus.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4) Option D: At some point in the future, if there is an actual
>> understood and documented need, a BAR sub-type could be added a sub-TLV.
>> The length of the BAR sub-type could be determined when the sub-TLV is
>> defined.
>>
>>
>>
>> Given
>>
>>
>>
>>   a) option D exists
>>
>>   b) there is currently only one defined value for BAR
>>
>>   c) I do not see strong consensus for change to one particular other
>> option
>>
>>
>>
>> I see no current reason for a change and I certainly see absolutely no
>> reason for
>>
>> a delay in progressing the documents.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do want to be clear about what the WG wants to do on this issue.
>> Therefore, here is
>>
>> my following request.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please send your feedback to the mailing list as follows:
>>
>>
>>
>> IF you prefer or can accept the current status, please say so.  No more
>> justification
>>
>> or reasoning is required. I just don't want the bulk of folks who are
>> content to be
>>
>> overlooked by those suggesting change.
>>
>>
>>
>> IF you prefer or can accept the current status, but think there should be
>> an IANA registry
>>
>> as is usual for managing code-points, please say so.  No more
>> justification is needed.
>>
>>
>>
>> IF you prefer Option B, C, and/or D, please say so with your
>> explanation.  More technical depth than "'we might need it" would be
>> helpful; the availability of sub-TLVs already
>>
>> provides future proofing.
>>
>>
>>
>> IF you have a clear technical objection to why the Current Status is not
>> acceptable,
>>
>> please express that - with clear details.
>>
>>
>>
>> IF you feel that additional code-points should be allocated in a BAR IANA
>> Registry or
>>
>> have thoughts on the appropriate policy, please say so with your
>> explanation for what
>>
>> those should be.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unless I see clear and strong consensus for something other than the
>> Current Status,
>>
>> that will remain.
>>
>>
>>
>> IF there is clear and strong consensus for Option B, C, or D, or adding
>> an IANA registry with particular values, then it will be possible to have a
>> change up through this Weds night - with a 1 week WGLC on that particular
>> technical change.
>>
>>
>>
>> My priority is to have the base BIER specifications published as Proposed
>> Standards so that more BIER implementations and deployment can be done.  I
>> would like the WG to wrap up the core work (as expressed in the proposed
>> recharter) so that you all can look
>>
>> at how to use it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Given this topic was raised last Weds and given that there are no
>> technical objections raised to the documents as are, there isn't much time
>> - so please just respond to this email ASAP.  My deadline for a decision is
>> 6pm EST on Weds.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Alia
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>
>

--f403045c7fa8b48d730565a69873
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">all the implementations I am aware off can adjust to Optio=
n A) with BAR registry without problems, neither do I see a problem with op=
tion B) given we are talking only 0/0 being in IGP RFC @ this point in time=
. thanks. tony <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:15 PM, Alia Atlas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">I ha=
ve one additional question for those with implementations or testing them.<=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">What is the impact of going wi=
th your preferred option in terms of interoperability?=C2=A0 It may be earl=
y enough that changes can happen, but more feedback is needed.</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">For those favoring Option B, could y=
ou send email to the list providing exact text so we have the details?</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">For those favoring the curre=
nt status without an IANA registry, are you able to handle one being impose=
d during IESG Review?=C2=A0 It is an obvious concern to raise.=C2=A0 Are yo=
u just prolonging or postponing the discussion?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Regards,</div><div dir=3D"auto">Aka</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"=
><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">On Feb 19, 2018 11:53 PM, &quot;Senthil Dhanaraj&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj@huawei.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"m_166906979626783871m_-5649539534793705773WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">+1 to Option-B<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Seems future proof to me.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Senthil<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> BIER [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alia Atlas<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 February 2018 03:21<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">b=
[email protected]</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"=
>[email protected]</a> list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] BAR field length in draft-ietf-bier-isis-extension<w=
br>s and draft-ietf-bier-ospf-extension<wbr>s<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As the Sponsoring AD for draft-ietf-bier-isis-extens=
ion<wbr>s-07 and draft-ietf-bier-ospf-extension<wbr>s-12, I have been follo=
wing the discussion on the mailing list with interest.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have not seen clear consensus for any change.<u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Let me be clear on what I see the options are from t=
he discussion.=C2=A0 Then I&#39;ll elaborate<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">a bit on how you can express your perspective most u=
sefully.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1) Current Status:=C2=A0 Bier Algorithm (BAR) field =
is 8 bits.=C2=A0 Currently, only value 0 is specified.=C2=A0 The drafts do =
not have an IANA registry - with the expectation that one will be created w=
hen the first additional use is clear.=C2=A0 It is possible
 that there will be objections from the IESG to progressing without an IANA=
 registry.=C2=A0 Given the lack of clarity for future use-cases and after d=
iscussion, I decided not to force one after my AD review - but I will not p=
ush back against having a BIER IANA registry
 if raised by others.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2) Option B:=C2=A0 Add a BAR sub-type of 8 bits.=C2=
=A0 This would modify the current TLVs.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Define an IANA registry for the BAR typ=
e.=C2=A0 The meaning of the BAR sub-type derives=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0from the BAR type.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We can d=
ebate over the registration policy for the BAR type.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">3) Option C: Change the BAR field to be 16 bits and =
define an IANA registry.=C2=A0 Part of the range can be FCFS with Expert Re=
view, part can be Specification Required, and part can be IETF Consensus.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">4) Option D: At some point in the future, if there i=
s an actual understood and documented need, a BAR sub-type could be added a=
 sub-TLV.=C2=A0 The length of the BAR sub-type could be determined when the=
 sub-TLV is defined.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Given<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 a) option D exists=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 b) there is currently only one defined value =
for BAR<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 c) I do not see strong consensus for change t=
o one particular other option<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I see no current reason for a change and I certainly=
 see absolutely no reason for<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">a delay in progressing the documents.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I do want to be clear about what the WG wants to do =
on this issue.=C2=A0 Therefore, here is<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">my following request.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please send your feedback to the mailing list as fol=
lows:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IF you prefer or can accept the current status, plea=
se say so.=C2=A0 No more justification<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">or reasoning is required. I just don&#39;t want the =
bulk of folks who are content to be<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">overlooked by those suggesting change.<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IF you prefer or can accept the current status, but =
think there should be an IANA registry<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">as is usual for managing code-points, please say so.=
=C2=A0 No more justification is needed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IF you prefer Option B, C, and/or D, please say so w=
ith your explanation.=C2=A0 More technical depth than &quot;&#39;we might n=
eed it&quot; would be helpful; the availability of sub-TLVs already<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">provides future proofing.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IF you have a clear technical objection to why the C=
urrent Status is not acceptable,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">please express that - with clear details.<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IF you feel that additional code-points should be al=
located in a BAR IANA Registry or<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">have thoughts on the appropriate policy, please say =
so with your explanation for what<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">those should be.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Unless I see clear and strong consensus for somethin=
g other than the Current Status,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">that will remain.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IF there is clear and strong consensus for Option B,=
 C, or D, or adding an IANA registry with particular values, then it will b=
e possible to have a change up through this Weds night - with a 1 week WGLC=
 on that particular technical change.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My priority is to have the base BIER specifications =
published as Proposed Standards so that more BIER implementations and deplo=
yment can be done.=C2=A0 I would like the WG to wrap up the core work (as e=
xpressed in the proposed recharter) so
 that you all can look<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">at how to use it.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Given this topic was raised last Weds and given that=
 there are no technical objections raised to the documents as are, there is=
n&#39;t much time - so please just respond to this email ASAP.=C2=A0 My dea=
dline for a decision is 6pm EST on Weds.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Alia<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/bier</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--f403045c7fa8b48d730565a69873--


--===============2539115662610804248==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg

--===============2539115662610804248==--