Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: language identifiers for sign languages (incl. sgn) vs. attribute for indicating the representation of an individual language in "sign language modality"
Mark Davis ☕️ <[email protected]> Sun, 24 Nov 2019 22:13:49 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.languages |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAJ2xs_GxsWq4CDEmDqfFKcjHiHXPtU9m-Bxa6yh0=EqJ_5ya3Q@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============6874827635082624597== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003baa8705981e207e" --0000000000003baa8705981e207e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It would be far better have a useful generative mechanism, instead of hundreds of combinations mashed together. Why not just: "it-signed" ? If the variant 'signed' is defined, every parser immediately knows that it is a signed variant, and doesn't have to look up the meaning of an obscure combination of codes. It can be used with *any* language (optionally plus region, optionally plus subdivision, as necessary), and correctly parsed. Moreover, there is then no necessity for people to go cap in hand to petition for a new code. Once 'signed' is defined, then if someone wants a code to use "tk-AF-signed" for sign language associated with Turkmen as used in Afghanistan, or even "tk-signed-u-sd-afkdz" for Turkmen as used in the Kunduz subdivision of Afghanistan, they are free to do so, without jumping through hoops. There can of course be additional variants added as necessary if there are multiple systems that can't be distinguished by language+region+subdivision. But it would only be need to be defined in such cases. Mark On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 3:10 AM John Cowan <[email protected]> wrote: > I agree that the 't' subtag is not suitable, but I don't think a generic > '-signed-' subtag is a good idea either. I think we have to use register= ed > variant tags, and I propose the following convention for them: > > lexifier language tag (3 letters) + disamiguator (2-5 letters or > digits). > > Note that this is a single tag, and you can't tell by looking at it if it > is for a signed modality or not. > > Examples (shown with country subtags for clarity, but they could be > omitted): > > en-US-asefsp: fingerspelled English using ASL letters > en-GB-bsifsp: fingerspelled English using British Sign Language letters > en-US-asese: Bornstein's signed English (ASL content words, 14 grammatica= l > particles) > en-US-asesee1: Seeing Essential English: ASL, modified ASL, and novel sig= ns > pl-PL-psosee1: Seeing Essential Polish (like asesee1, but lexified by > Polish Sign) > en-US-asesee2: Signing Exact English: variant of asesse1 that uses > additional ASL signs for some English compound words; also used in SG > en-GB-bsise: British Signed English, conceptually similar to asesee1 but > not derived from it > en-GB-bsisse: Sign-Supported English, uses mouthing to distinguish betwee= n > English words represented by the same sign in British Sign > en-GB-pagetgor: Paget-Gorman Sign, all lexemes are artificial > en-asf: mostly Auslan signs with some from ASL, English syntax, used in A= U > and NZ > en-IE-isgise: Irish Signed English (used in the republic) > en-UK-bsinisl: based on Northern Ireland dialect of British Sign (which > shares some syntax with Irish Sign) > fr-FR-fslfs: Fran=C3=A7ais Sign=C3=A9 lexified by French Sign > fr-BE-sfbfs: Fran=C3=A7ais Sign=C3=A9 lexified by French Belgian Sign > fr-CA-fcsfs: Fran=C3=A7ais Sign=C3=A9 lexified by Qu=C3=A9bec Sign > de-gsglbg: Deutsche Geb=C3=A4rdensprache, used in DE and BE > it-IT-iseis: italiano segnato > it-IT-iseise: italiano segnato essato > > And so on. > > > John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan [email protected] > Dievas dave dantis; Dievas duos duonos --Lithuanian proverb > Deus dedit dentes; deus dabit panem --Latin version thereof > Deity donated dentition; > deity'll donate doughnuts --English version by Muke > Tever > God gave gums; God'll give granary --Version by Mat McVeagh > > > > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 7:24 PM Peter Constable <petercon=3D > [email protected]> wrote: > >> The scope of the =E2=80=98t=E2=80=99 extension is linguistic content tha= t has undergone >> some type of transform in its expression, and signed modality for a spok= en >> language could be considered a transform. But the =E2=80=98t=E2=80=99 ex= tension as >> currently defined doesn=E2=80=99t support this. What is supported is pri= marily >> dealing with text transformations. Also, the way the =E2=80=98t=E2=80=99= extension works is >> that the additional information declares what content was transformed _ >> *from*_, not what it is transformed _*into*_. For signed modality of >> spoken languages, what=E2=80=99s needed is a way to indicate signed moda= lity as the >> final expression, not the source. >> >> >> >> So, I don=E2=80=99t think the =E2=80=98t=E2=80=99 extension is appropria= te. >> >> >> >> I think a variant subtag =E2=80=9Csigned=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csignmod=E2= =80=9D would be better. The main >> problem that would arise is that this is very generic (it could be usefu= lly >> applied to any oral language), which there has been resistance to in the >> past. A smaller issue is that, while variant tags for specific >> signed-modality variants could be registered, it might make sense to use= a >> subtag sequence along the lines -signed-modvarnt, but it=E2=80=99s curre= ntly not >> possible to specify a prefix as anything other than a valid language tag= .. >> (E.g., *-signed can=E2=80=99t be a prefix specification.) That wouldn=E2= =80=99t be a >> problem as long as the signed-modality variant is specific to a particul= ar >> language, as would be the case for (e.g.) Signed Exact English. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> *From:* Ietf-languages <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *= Doug >> Ewell >> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 1:05 PM >> *To:* Christian Galinski <[email protected]>; 'Fourney, >> David' <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* ietf-languages <[email protected]>; 'Sebastian Drude' < >> [email protected]>; [email protected] >> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [Ietf-languages] language identifiers for sign >> languages (incl. sgn) vs. attribute for indicating the representation of= an >> individual language in "sign language modality" >> >> >> >> Hi Christian, >> >> >> >> > Many true sign languages (se definitions below), such as =E2=80=9Case= =E2=80=9D >> > (American Sign Language [ASL], which /fictively/ might even have a >> > Newfoundland and Labrador variety =E2=80=93 to be coded ase-CA-NL in l= ine >> > with BCP47 rules) have already a language identifier. >> >> >> >> This example is actually not valid BCP 47 syntax. The use of ISO 3166-1 >> country codes as region subtags doesn't extend to appending ISO 3166-2 >> subdivision codes directly. You would need to use "ase-u-sd-canl" or >> "ase-CA-u-sd-canl". See UTS #35, Section 3.6.5. >> >> >> >> > The question to Doug is, how the BCP and Unicode rules deal with the >> > above-mentioned difference between (true) =E2=80=9Cindividual sign lan= guages=E2=80=9D >> > and the =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80=9D (as a sort of =E2= =80=9Ctransform=E2=80=9D of any >> > individual language)? >> >> >> >> I don't believe there are or should be any "Unicode rules" (which I >> assume refers to CLDR and the 't' or 'u' extension) that deal with this. >> >> >> >> One approach would be to request a variant subtag, such as 'signed', to >> represent the signed modality of a spoken language, such as (but not >> limited to) Signing Exact English. See RFC 5646, Section 2.2.5 for detai= ls >> on variant subtags and Section 3.6 for details on requesting a registrat= ion. >> >> >> >> However, some may argue that modality is beyond the scope of BCP 47 >> variants and would suggest a CLDR extension to deal with this within the >> 't' extension framework. In that case, your best bet would be to contact >> [email protected] . >> >> >> >> -- >> Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fewel= lic.org&data=3D02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C19558599ac7d421157fc08d= 76f8fc274%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637100535555481188&s= data=3D5sWZ089qfuVRPWbmetKrFDHskz%2BETA2vY0ioACdSzos%3D&reserved=3D0> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: language identifiers for sign languages (incl. sgn) vs. >> attribute for indicating the representation of an individual language in >> "sign language modality" >> From: "Christian Galinski" <[email protected]> >> Date: Fri, November 22, 2019 11:48 am >> To: "'Fourney, David'" <[email protected]> >> Cc: <[email protected]>, "'Sebastian Drude'" >> <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> >> >> >> Dear David, >> >> >> >> First I have to apologize for my long silence =E2=80=93 I was absorbed w= ith work >> on several standards. >> >> >> >> We are now at a crucial moment where things need to be clarified in ISO >> 639-4 =E2=80=9Clanguage coding=E2=80=9D (and ISO/TR 21636 =E2=80=9CLangu= age varieties=E2=80=9D) =E2=80=93 including >> your issue of how to identify =E2=80=9Cindividual sign languages=E2=80= =9D (i.e. true >> individual sign languages, which are not just a modality of spoken >> language) and the =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80=9D which is a = signed >> representation of a spoken language). >> >> >> >> 1. concerning the difference between =E2=80=9Cindividual sign languag= es=E2=80=9D and >> =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80=9D, the use of the language i= dentifier =E2=80=9Csgn=E2=80=9D (in >> library use) is confined to an unidentifiable *individual sign >> language* =E2=80=93 it is NOT referring to a =E2=80=9Csigned language= modality=E2=80=9D. >> According to the fundamental rules of language coding, we cannot chan= ge the >> scope of =E2=80=9Csgn=E2=80=9D, nor ignore the difference between sig= n language and the >> signed language modality. >> Therefore, for the *sign language modality* we need an =E2=80=9Cattri= bute=E2=80=9D to >> be added to the language identifier of an individual language, e.g. i= f the >> sign language modality of the type of =E2=80=9CSigning Exact English= =E2=80=9D is used. >> 2. However, I could not find an identifier for *signed language >> modality*, nor a mechanism for inserting an identifier for this in: >> >> *https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47* >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo= ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fbcp47&data=3D02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C1955= 8599ac7d421157fc08d76f8fc274%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6= 37100535555486190&sdata=3DPWlDE0pdRCgLBG4wsnprwit5%2B6EeB%2Fux%2FiApkJkmweg= %3D&reserved=3D0> >> >> *https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6497#ref-UTS35* >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo= ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6497%23ref-UTS35&data=3D02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40micros= oft.com%7C19558599ac7d421157fc08d76f8fc274%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db= 47%7C1%7C0%7C637100535555491183&sdata=3DY3Zi1erRIWT%2F8K%2F5ZhtfSPCofmTkczy= ny89RagNWmhA%3D&reserved=3D0> >> >> *http://unicode.org/reports/tr35/* >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Funic= ode.org%2Freports%2Ftr35%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C195= 58599ac7d421157fc08d76f8fc274%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C= 637100535555496180&sdata=3DfezBI46al7DmxtciBBIwI7Fj%2Fuuyor7d8uB7xdyvzM4%3D= &reserved=3D0> >> >> The regular order of attributes to a language tag (language identifier) >> is =E2=80=9Clang-geogr=E2=80=9D (dialect), or =E2=80=9Clang-script=E2=80= =9D (language written in a certain >> script) or =E2=80=9Clang-script-geogr=E2=80=9D (language in a script in = a certain region).. >> In between, a =E2=80=9Ct=E2=80=9D (for =E2=80=9Ctransform=E2=80=9D in th= e meaning of transcription, >> transliteration, translation or other) may be inserted. >> >> >> >> From your experience/problems with video technology (and HTML), the >> questions to you would be: >> >> 1. Many true sign languages (se definitions below), such as =E2=80=9C= ase=E2=80=9D >> (American Sign Language [ASL], which /fictively/ might even have a >> Newfoundland and Labrador variety =E2=80=93 to be coded ase-CA-NL in = line with >> BCP47 rules) have already a language identifier. >> *Does it need another attribute to further specify them as a sign >> language? *In that case, an attribute must be found which is >> different from =E2=80=9Csgn=E2=80=9D. How could it look like? >> 2. In the case of a *signed language modality*, such as =E2=80=9CSign= ing >> Exact English=E2=80=9D the core language identifier for English would= be =E2=80=9Ceng=E2=80=9D. It >> would need an attribute to identify it as the signed language modalit= y >> (which could be followed by a country code, if there are =E2=80=9Cdia= lects=E2=80=9D of /fictive/ >> eng-xxx-AUS meaning =E2=80=9CSigning Exact English as used in Austral= ia=E2=80=9D. >> What could =E2=80=9Cxxx=E2=80=9D indicating =E2=80=9Csigned language = modality look like? >> 3. It probably would not help to use an attribute identifier =E2=80= =9CXxxx=E2=80=9D >> in the slot of =E2=80=9Cscript code=E2=80=9D, as a signed language mo= dality might slightly >> differ depending on the script used, even if it is the same spoken la= nguage >> (represented in different scripts in different areas/communities). >> 4. Could the =E2=80=9Ct=E2=80=9D (transform) symbol be of help =E2=80= =93 as a given signed >> language modality somehow is a =E2=80=9Ctransformation=E2=80=9D of a = spoken language? >> >> >> >> 1. The above questions (resp. the answer to them) could have an >> impact on ISO 639 and ISO/TR 21636 insofar as we should not formulate >> provisions in these documents which conflict with other standards. We >> should rather try to find generic solutions. >> >> >> >> The question to Doug is, how the BCP and Unicode rules deal with the >> above-mentioned difference between (true) =E2=80=9Cindividual sign langu= ages=E2=80=9D and >> the =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80=9D (as a sort of =E2=80=9Ctr= ansform=E2=80=9D of any individual >> language)? see the respective terminology entries below >> >> >> >> Best regards >> >> Christian >> >> >> >> >> >> p.s. >> >> In the most recent revised version of ISO 639-4 we came up with the >> following terminology entries: >> >> individual sign language >> >> NOT: signed language >> >> *individual language* (3.1.3) having the visual-spatial *language >> modality* (3.5.1) as basic modality >> >> Note 1 to entry: Usually =E2=80=9Csign language=E2=80=9D appears as part= of the name of >> the respective individual language. >> >> EXAMPLE: ASL (American Sign Language); ) >> >> >> >> signed language modality >> >> NOT: sign language >> >> visual-spatial *language modality* (3.5.1) that uses a combination of >> hand shapes, palm orientation and movement of the hand, arm or body, and >> facial expression >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf-languages mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages >> > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-languages mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages > --0000000000003baa8705981e207e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:times ne= w roman,serif">It would be far better have a useful generative mechanism, i= nstead of hundreds of combinations mashed together. Why not just: "it-= signed" ? If the variant 'signed' is defined, every parser imm= ediately knows that it is a signed variant, and doesn't have to look up= the meaning of an obscure combination of codes.=C2=A0 It can be used with = *any* language (optionally plus region, optionally plus subdivision, as nec= essary), and correctly parsed.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f= ont-family:times new roman,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st= yle=3D"font-family:times new roman,serif">Moreover, there is then no necess= ity for people to go cap in hand to petition for a new code. Once 'sign= ed' is defined, then if someone wants a code to use "tk-AF-signed&= quot; for sign=C2=A0language=C2=A0associated with Turkmen as used in Afghan= istan, or even "tk-signed-u-sd-afkdz" for Turkmen as used in the = Kunduz subdivision of Afghanistan, they are free to do so, without jumping = through hoops.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:times= new roman,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami= ly:times new roman,serif">There can of course be additional=C2=A0variants a= dded as necessary if there are multiple systems that can't be distingui= shed by language+region+subdivision. But it would only be need to be define= d in such cases.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tim= es new roman,serif"><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail= _signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><d= iv dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font fac= e=3D"'times new roman', serif"><div style=3D"background-color:trans= parent;margin-top:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-right:0px"><= div></div></div><div style=3D"background-color:transparent;margin-top:0px;m= argin-left:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-right:0px">Mark</div></font><div><d= iv><font face=3D"'times new roman', serif"><i><span style=3D"font-s= tyle:normal"><i></i></span><i></i></i></font></div></div></div></div></div>= </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D= "gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at= 3:10 AM John Cowan <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= >[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s= tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad= ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I agree that the 't' subtag is not = suitable, but I don't think a generic '-signed-' subtag is a go= od idea either.=C2=A0 I think we have to use registered variant tags, and I= propose the following convention for them:<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lexifier language tag (3 letters)=C2=A0+ disamiguator=C2= =A0(2-5 letters or digits).</div><div><br></div><div>Note that this is a si= ngle tag, and you can't tell by looking at it if it is for a signed mod= ality or not.</div><div><br></div><div>Examples (shown with country subtags= for clarity, but they could be omitted):</div><div><br></div><div>en-US-as= efsp:=C2=A0 fingerspelled English using ASL letters</div><div>en-GB-bsifsp:= =C2=A0 fingerspelled English using British Sign Language letters</div><div>= en-US-asese: Bornstein's signed English (ASL content words, 14 grammati= cal particles)</div><div>en-US-asesee1: Seeing Essential English: ASL, modi= fied ASL, and novel signs</div><div>pl-PL-psosee1: Seeing Essential Polish = (like asesee1, but lexified by Polish Sign)</div><div>en-US-asesee2: Signin= g Exact English: variant of asesse1 that uses additional ASL signs for some= English compound words; also used in SG</div><div>en-GB-bsise: British Sig= ned English, conceptually similar to asesee1 but not derived from it</div><= div>en-GB-bsisse: Sign-Supported English, uses mouthing to distinguish betw= een English words represented by the same sign in British Sign</div><div>en= -GB-pagetgor: Paget-Gorman Sign, all lexemes are artificial</div><div>en-as= f: mostly Auslan signs with some from ASL, English syntax, used in AU and N= Z</div><div>en-IE-isgise: Irish Signed English (used in the republic)<br></= div><div>en-UK-bsinisl: based on Northern Ireland dialect of British Sign (= which shares some syntax with Irish Sign)</div><div>fr-FR-fslfs:=C2=A0Fran= =C3=A7ais Sign=C3=A9 lexified by French Sign</div><div>fr-BE-sfbfs:=C2=A0Fr= an=C3=A7ais Sign=C3=A9 lexified by French Belgian Sign</div><div>fr-CA-fcsf= s:=C2=A0Fran=C3=A7ais Sign=C3=A9 lexified by Qu=C3=A9bec Sign</div><div>de-= gsglbg:=C2=A0Deutsche Geb=C3=A4rdensprache, used in DE and BE</div><div>it-= IT-iseis: italiano segnato</div><div>it-IT-iseise: italiano segnato essato<= /div><div><br></div><div>And so on.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div= >John Cowan =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://vrici.lojba= n.org/~cowan" target=3D"_blank">http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan</a> =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">cow= [email protected]</a><br>Dievas dave dantis; Dievas duos duonos =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0--Lithuanian proverb<br>Deus dedit dentes; deus dabit panem =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Latin version thereof<br>Deity donated de= ntition;<br>=C2=A0 deity'll donate doughnuts =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --English version by Muke Tever<br>G= od gave gums; God'll give granary =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0--Version by Mat McVeagh<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>= <br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm= ail_attr">On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 7:24 PM Peter Constable <petercon=3D<a= href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">40microso= [email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu= ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20= 4);padding-left:1ex"> <div lang=3D"EN-US"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The scope of the =E2=80=98t=E2=80=99 extension is li= nguistic content that has undergone some type of transform in its expressio= n, and signed modality for a spoken language could be considered a transfor= m. But the =E2=80=98t=E2=80=99 extension as currently defined doesn=E2=80= =99t support this. What is supported is primarily dealing with text transformat= ions. Also, the way the =E2=80=98t=E2=80=99 extension works is that the add= itional information declares what content was transformed _<i>from</i>_, no= t what it is transformed _<i>into</i>_. For signed modality of spoken languages, what=E2=80=99s needed is a way to indicate s= igned modality as the final expression, not the source.<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">So, I don=E2=80=99t think the =E2=80=98t=E2=80=99 ex= tension is appropriate. <u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think a variant subtag =E2=80=9Csigned=E2=80=9D or= =E2=80=9Csignmod=E2=80=9D would be better. The main problem that would ari= se is that this is very generic (it could be usefully applied to any oral l= anguage), which there has been resistance to in the past. A smaller issue is that, while variant tags for specific signed-modality variants co= uld be registered, it might make sense to use a subtag sequence along the l= ines -signed-modvarnt, but it=E2=80=99s currently not possible to specify a= prefix as anything other than a valid language tag. (E.g., *-signed can=E2=80=99t be a prefix specification.) That wouldn= =E2=80=99t be a problem as long as the signed-modality variant is specific = to a particular language, as would be the case for (e.g.) Signed Exact Engl= ish.<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Peter<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-= top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ietf-languages <<a href=3D"mailto:ie= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">ietf-languages-bounces@iet= f.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Doug Ewell<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 22, 2019 1:05 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Christian Galinski <<a href=3D"mailto:christian.galinski@chel= lo.at" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>; 'Fourney= , David' <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank= ">[email protected]</a>><br> <b>Cc:</b> ietf-languages <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" ta= rget=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>; 'Sebastian Drude' = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">Sebast= [email protected]</a>>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" tar= get=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [Ietf-languages] language identifiers for si= gn languages (incl. sgn) vs. attribute for indicating the representation of= an individual language in "sign language modality"<u></u><u></u>= </p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">Hi Christian,<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:"Cour= ier New";color:black">> Many true sign languages (se definitions be= low), such as =E2=80=9Case=E2=80=9D<br> > (American Sign Language [ASL], which /fictively/ might even have a<br> > Newfoundland and Labrador variety =E2=80=93 to be coded ase-CA-NL in l= ine<br> > with BCP47 rules) have already a language identifier.</span><span styl= e=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u= ></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">This example is actually not valid BCP 47 syntax. The u= se of ISO 3166-1 country codes as region subtags doesn't extend to appe= nding ISO 3166-2 subdivision codes directly. You would need to use "ase-u-sd-canl" or "ase-CA-u-sd-canl&= quot;. See UTS #35, Section 3.6.5.<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:"Cour= ier New";color:black">> The question to Doug is, how the BCP and Un= icode rules deal with the<br> > above-mentioned difference between (true) =E2=80=9Cindividual sign lan= guages=E2=80=9D<br> > and the =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80=9D (as a sort of =E2= =80=9Ctransform=E2=80=9D of any<br> > individual language)?</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:= Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">I don't believe there are or should be any "Un= icode rules" (which I assume refers to CLDR and the 't' or = 9;u' extension) that deal with this.<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">One approach would be to request a variant subtag, such= as 'signed', to represent the signed modality of a spoken language= , such as (but not limited to) Signing Exact English. See RFC 5646, Section 2.2.5 for details on variant subtags and Se= ction 3.6 for details on requesting a registration.<u></u><u></u></span></p= > </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">However, some may argue that modality is beyond the sco= pe of BCP 47 variants and would suggest a CLDR extension to deal with this = within the 't' extension framework. In that case, your best bet would be to contact <a href=3D"mailto:cldr-con= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank"> <span style=3D"color:windowtext">[email protected]</span></a> .<u></= u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black">--<br> Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protecti= on.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fewellic.org&data=3D02%7C01%7Cpeterco= n%40microsoft.com%7C19558599ac7d421157fc08d76f8fc274%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab= 2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637100535555481188&sdata=3D5sWZ089qfuVRPWbmetKrF= DHskz%2BETA2vY0ioACdSzos%3D&reserved=3D0" title=3D"ewellic.org" target= =3D"_blank"> <span style=3D"color:windowtext">ewellic.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></span= ></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b= order-left:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:6pt;margin-= top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" id=3D"gmail-m_6552725705252067857gmail-m_-363640= 8184934032733gmail-m_-8097385169644950548replyBlockquote"> <div id=3D"gmail-m_6552725705252067857gmail-m_-3636408184934032733gmail-m_-= 8097385169644950548wmQuoteWrapper"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sa= ns-serif;color:black">-------- Original Message --------<br> Subject: language identifiers for sign languages (incl. sgn) vs.<br> attribute for indicating the representation of an individual language in<br= > "sign language modality"<br> From: "Christian Galinski" <<a href=3D"mailto:christian.galins= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">christian.= [email protected]</span></a>><br> Date: Fri, November 22, 2019 11:48 am<br> To: "'Fourney, David'" <<a href=3D"mailto:david.fourne= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">david.fourne= [email protected]</span></a>><br> Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"><span st= yle=3D"color:windowtext">[email protected]</span></a>>, "'S= ebastian Drude'"<br> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"><span = style=3D"color:windowtext">[email protected]</span></a>>, <= <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:= windowtext">[email protected]</span></a>><br> <br> <br> <u></u><u></u></span></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Dear David,</span><span style=3D"font-= size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span>= </p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">First I have to apologize for my long = silence =E2=80=93 I was absorbed with work on several standards. </span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:b= lack"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">We are now at a crucial moment where t= hings need to be clarified in ISO 639-4 =E2=80=9Clanguage coding=E2=80=9D (= and ISO/TR 21636 =E2=80=9CLanguage varieties=E2=80=9D) =E2=80=93 including your issue of how to identify =E2=80=9Cindividual sign languages=E2=80=9D = (i.e. true individual sign languages, which are not just a modality of spok= en language) and the =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80=9D which is a = signed representation of a spoken language).</span><span style=3D"font-size= :12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1"> <li style=3D"color:black"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font= -family:Verdana,sans-serif">concerning the difference between =E2=80=9Cindi= vidual sign languages=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80= =9D, the use of the language identifier =E2=80=9Csgn=E2=80=9D (in library use) is confined to = an unidentifiable <span> <b>individual sign language</b></span> =E2=80=93 it is NOT referring to a = =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80=9D. According to the fundamental ru= les of language coding, we cannot change the scope of =E2=80=9Csgn=E2=80=9D= , nor ignore the difference between sign language and the signed language modality. <br> Therefore, for the <span><b>sign language modality</b></span> we need an = =E2=80=9Cattribute=E2=80=9D to be added to the language identifier of an in= dividual language, e.g. if the sign language modality of the type of =E2=80= =9CSigning Exact English=E2=80=9D is used.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1= 0pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li style=3D"= color:black"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verda= na,sans-serif">However, I could not find an identifier for <span><b>signed language modality</b></span>, nor a mechanism for inserting= an identifier for this in:</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family= :Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.pro= tection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fbcp47&= data=3D02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C19558599ac7d421157fc08d76f8fc27= 4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637100535555486190&sdata= =3DPWlDE0pdRCgLBG4wsnprwit5%2B6EeB%2Fux%2FiApkJkmweg%3D&reserved=3D0" t= arget=3D"_blank"><u><span style=3D"color:blue">https://tools.ietf.org/html/= bcp47</span></u></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdan= a,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.pro= tection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6497%23= ref-UTS35&data=3D02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C19558599ac7d42115= 7fc08d76f8fc274%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63710053555549= 1183&sdata=3DY3Zi1erRIWT%2F8K%2F5ZhtfSPCofmTkczyny89RagNWmhA%3D&res= erved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><u><span style=3D"color:blue">https://tools.ie= tf.org/html/rfc6497#ref-UTS35</span></u></a> </span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:b= lack"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.pro= tection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Funicode.org%2Freports%2Ftr35%2F&= ;data=3D02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C19558599ac7d421157fc08d76f8fc2= 74%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637100535555496180&sdat= a=3DfezBI46al7DmxtciBBIwI7Fj%2Fuuyor7d8uB7xdyvzM4%3D&reserved=3D0" targ= et=3D"_blank"><u><span style=3D"color:blue">http://unicode.org/reports/tr35= /</span></u></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sa= ns-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The regular order of attributes to a l= anguage tag (language identifier) is =E2=80=9Clang-geogr=E2=80=9D (dialect)= , or =E2=80=9Clang-script=E2=80=9D (language written in a certain script) or =E2=80=9Clang-script-geogr=E2=80=9D (language in a script in a = certain region).. In between, a =E2=80=9Ct=E2=80=9D (for =E2=80=9Ctransform= =E2=80=9D in the meaning of transcription, transliteration, translation or = other) may be inserted.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Ver= dana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">From your experience/problems with vid= eo technology (and HTML), the questions to you would be:</span><span style= =3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></= u></span></p> </div> <ol start=3D"1" type=3D"a"> <li style=3D"color:black"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font= -family:Verdana,sans-serif">Many true sign languages (se definitions below)= , such as =E2=80=9Case=E2=80=9D (American Sign Language [ASL], which </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,san= s-serif;color:red">/fictively/ </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,san= s-serif">might even have a Newfoundland and Labrador variety =E2=80=93 to b= e coded ase-CA-NL in line with BCP47 rules) have already a language identif= ier. <br> <span><b>Does it need another attribute to further specify them as a sign l= anguage? </b></span>In that case, an attribute must be found which is different from= =E2=80=9Csgn=E2=80=9D. How could it look like?</span><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li styl= e=3D"color:black"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:= Verdana,sans-serif">In the case of a <span><b>signed language modality</b></span>, such as =E2=80=9CSigning Exac= t English=E2=80=9D the core language identifier for English would be =E2=80= =9Ceng=E2=80=9D. It would need an attribute to identify it as the signed la= nguage modality (which could be followed by a country code, if there are =E2=80=9Cdialects=E2=80=9D of </span><span= lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;colo= r:red">/fictive/ </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,san= s-serif">eng-xxx-AUS meaning =E2=80=9CSigning Exact English as used in Aust= ralia=E2=80=9D. What could =E2=80=9Cxxx=E2=80=9D indicating =E2=80=9Csigned= language modality look like?</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fami= ly:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li style=3D"color:black">= <span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif= ">It probably would not help to use an attribute identifier =E2=80=9CXxxx= =E2=80=9D in the slot of =E2=80=9Cscript code=E2=80=9D, as a signed language modality might slightly differ depending on the script used, even= if it is the same spoken language (represented in different scripts in dif= ferent areas/communities).</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:= Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li style=3D"color:black"><sp= an lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">C= ould the =E2=80=9Ct=E2=80=9D (transform) symbol be of help =E2=80=93 as a g= iven signed language modality somehow is a =E2=80=9Ctransformation=E2=80=9D of a spoken language?</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verd= ana,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <ol start=3D"3" type=3D"1"> <li style=3D"color:black"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font= -family:Verdana,sans-serif">The above questions (resp. the answer to them) = could have an impact on ISO 639 and ISO/TR 21636 insofar as we should not formulate provisions in these documents which conflict with = other standards. We should rather try to find generic solutions.</span><spa= n style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></s= pan></li></ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The question to Doug is, how the BCP a= nd Unicode rules deal with the above-mentioned difference between (true) = =E2=80=9Cindividual sign languages=E2=80=9D and the =E2=80=9Csigned language modality=E2=80=9D (as a sort of =E2=80=9Ctransfor= m=E2=80=9D of any individual language)? see the respective terminology entr= ies below</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-seri= f;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Best regards</span><span style=3D"font= -size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span= ></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Christian</span><span style=3D"font-si= ze:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></= p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">p.s.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12= pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">In the most recent revised version of = ISO 639-4 we came up with the following terminology entries:</span><span st= yle=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u= ></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sa= ns-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_6552725705252067857_m_-3636408184934032= 733_m_-8097385169644950548__Hlk15067083"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font= -size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">individual sign lang= uage</span></a><span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans= -serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;f= ont-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">NOT: signed language</span></spa= n><span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:= black"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span><b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-si= ze:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">individual language</sp= an></b></span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;fon= t-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> (3.1.3) having the visual-spatial <span><b>language modality</b></span> (3= ..5.1) as basic modality</span></span><span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fo= nt-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f= ont-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Note=C2=A01 to entry: Usually = =E2=80=9Csign language=E2=80=9D appears as part of the name of the respecti= ve individual language.</span></span><span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;fo= nt-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f= ont-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">EXAMPLE: ASL (American Sign Lang= uage); )</span></span><span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verda= na,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fami= ly:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa= mily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sa= ns-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_6552725705252067857_m_-3636408184934032= 733_m_-8097385169644950548__Hlk525307137"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"fon= t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">signed language mod= ality</span></a><span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,san= s-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;f= ont-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">NOT: sign language</span></span>= <span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:bl= ack"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:12pt;f= ont-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">visual-spatial <span><b>language modality</b></span> (3.5.1) that uses a combination of ha= nd shapes, palm orientation and movement of the hand, arm or body, and faci= al expression</span></span><span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:= Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fami= ly:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sa= ns-serif;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> _______________________________________________<br> Ietf-languages mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">Ietf-languages= @ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages" rel=3D"nor= eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-langu= ages</a><br> </blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br> Ietf-languages mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">Ietf-languages= @ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages" rel=3D"nor= eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-langu= ages</a><br> </blockquote></div> --0000000000003baa8705981e207e-- --===============6874827635082624597== Content-Type: text/plain; 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