Re: Schema for posixGroup successor (RFC 2307 bis)

Andrew Findlay <[email protected]> Thu, 12 Feb 2015 12:54:36 +0000
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.ldapext
Message-ID <[email protected]>
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:53:00PM +0100, Michael Ströder wrote:

> Could you please go ahead pushing draft-findlay-ldap-groupofentries?

OK. I won't have much time for this over the next month, but as a
start I attach the original draft and a summary of the discussions
surrounding it.

The draft itself is quite simple, in that it proposes a group class
that is very similar to the existing groupOfNames. The can of worms it
opened up is not so easy to fix however :-) The main issues relate to
nesting of groups: what it means, whether it should be allowed in a
given case, and how clients and servers might split the work in
dealing with potentially-nested groups. Some of the more likely
solutions to those problems would remove the 'member' attribute from
the groupOfEntries class, thus breaking your proposal...

Here is the discussion summary:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
draft-findlay-ldap-groupofentries-00.txt discussion summary 2007-09-24
======================================================================

On September 17th I introduced an I-D to create an LDAP group class
that was capable of representing an empty group. The initial proposal
was for the smallest possible change from the existing groupOfNames
class.

Most people who joined the discussion on [email protected] were broadly
in support of allowing empty groups, though some thought that any
changes away from the status quo were doomed to fail.

Howard Chu pointed out that groupOfUniqueNames is even worse than
groupOfNames as the LDAP syntax for the nameAndOptionalUID attribute
type cannot be parsed reliably.

Kurt Zeilenga provided much detailed editorial advice, and posed a
question about how to handle groups where the DSA is unwilling or
unable to return some or all member names.

Luke Howard suggested that the behaviour of nested groups should be
defined. I was initially against an explicit definition, but was soon
persuaded that there could be significant performance and security
problems with ad-hoc nesting. At this point the discussion moved
almost entirely to the consideration of nesting issues.

Pete Rowley wanted an interface to be used by read-only clients to find
out what groups a particular entry is a member of without caring about
how the groups are defined. He suggested a memberOf attribute (presumably
server-maintained) for this purpose. Michael Liben also liked this
approach.

Simo Sorce proposed a control for server-side group expansion, and
Michael Ströder suggested that an extended operation for asking specific
membership questions would be better. Howard Chu suggested that any such
operation would need a depth limit parameter.

Steven Legg proposed directMember and nestedGroups attributes, and
Michael Ströder suggested that these might be a sufficient set to
describe nested groups. I wondered whether nested groups should be split
into those that could in turn have their own nested groups and those
that could not, but Simo Sorce thought that people would never choose
to use the more restrictive case. I was initially against dropping the
original 'member' attribute, but Steven pointed out that having a new
directMember attribute would allow people to define their own group
classes and still take advantage of defined nesting semantics.


Current situation
=================

It seems to me that we now have these threads of development:

1)	A new structural group class that can represent empty groups.
	This could go forward with the existing ambiguous member
	attribute or it could become the basis of a group
	representation with more carefully defined semantics using
	directMember.

2)	A new auxiliary class and one or more attributes to represent
	groups that may contain other groups. For this to make much
	sense it would require the well-defined version of (1).
	
	In (1) and (2) I see the definitions of the attributes being
	the key, and would avoid requiring the use of the object
	classes to obtain the defined semantics.

3)	A new control or extended operation so that a client can ask
	the server to do the heavy lifting involved with nested
	groups.

4)	A new server-maintained attribute called memberOf to give an
	alternative way for clients to ask for membership information.
	AD already has such an attribute, and Pierangelo Masarati
	recently proposed one for OpenLDAP so there may be useful
	existing work to build on.

5)	A document explaining why groupOfUniqueNames,
	uniqueMember and nameAndOptionalUID are bad, possibly leading
	to them being deprecated in the next revision of the core LDAP
	standards.


I am willing to co-ordinate work on (1) and (2). Are there volunteers
to take on the others?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Andrew
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|                 From Andrew Findlay, Skills 1st Ltd                 |
| Consultant in large-scale systems, networks, and directory services |
|     http://www.skills-1st.co.uk/                +44 1628 782565     |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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draft-findlay-ldap-groupofentries-00.txt (text/plain, 8.1 KB)


Network Working Group                                         A. Findlay
Internet-Draft                                            Skills 1st Ltd
Expires: March 16, 2008                               September 13, 2007


                  The LDAP groupOfEntries object class
                  draft-findlay-ldap-groupofentries-00

Status of this Memo

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Copyright Notice

   Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007).

Abstract

   This memo describes the LDAP groupOfEntries object class which is a
   replacement for the existing groupOfNames class.  The new class
   permits the creation of empty groups.

   If approved as a Standards Track document, this document will update
   RFC4519 [2]

Document Intent

   This document is intended to be, after appropriate review and
   revision, submitted to the RFC Editor as a Standards Track document.
   Distribution of this memo is unlimited.  Technical discussion of this
   document will take place on the IETF LDAP Extensions mailing list
   <[email protected]>.  Please send editorial comments directly to the
   author <[email protected]>


1.  Introduction

   A groupOfNames object class has existed since the earliest X.521 [1]
   standard.  It has an identical definition in LDAP (RFC4519 [2]).  The
   class is used to define entries holding DN-valued member attributes,
   each value pointing to an entry that represents a single member of
   the group being described, or to another entry of type groupOfNames.

   groupOfNames is a structural object class, so it is often the only
   class used in the definition of group objects.

   Experience has shown that the definition of groupOfNames causes
   difficulties in practice.  In particular, the fact that 'member' is a
   mandatory attribute means that it is not possible to create an empty
   group or to delete the last member from a group.  This leads to
   artificial tricks such as making every group a member of itself, or
   adding a dummy member to every group when it is created.  These
   tricks in turn make the management of groups more complex and prone
   to error.  Groups are commonly used to control access to resources,
   so management errors can lead to security risks.

   There does not appear to be any good reason for the 'member'
   attribute to be mandatory.  This memo describes a new object class
   called groupOfEntries that is equivalent to groupOfNames in all other
   respects but which makes 'member' an optional attribute.


2.  The existing groupOfNames object class

   RFC4519 [2] contains this definition:

   The 'groupOfNames' object class is the basis of an entry that
   represents a set of named objects including information related to
   the purpose or maintenance of the set.  (Source: X.521 [1])

         ( 2.5.6.9 NAME 'groupOfNames'
            SUP top
            STRUCTURAL
            MUST ( member $
                  cn )
            MAY ( businessCategory $
                  seeAlso $
                  owner $
                  ou $
                  o $
                  description ) )

   The inclusion of 'member' in the 'MUST' section of the definition
   prevents empty groups from being created.


3.  The groupOfEntries object class

   The 'groupOfEntries' object class is the basis of an entry that
   represents a set of named objects including information related to
   the purpose or maintenance of the set.  It should be used in
   preference to the 'groupOfNames' object class.

         ( 1.2.826.0.1.3458854.2.1.1.1 NAME 'groupOfEntries'
            SUP top
            STRUCTURAL
            MUST ( cn )
            MAY ( member $
                  businessCategory $
                  seeAlso $
                  owner $
                  ou $
                  o $
                  description ) )

   This object class allows groups to be empty.  In all other respects
   it behaves like the groupOfNames object class.

   The OID assigned to this object class is delegated by Skills 1st Ltd.


4.  Effect on other documents

   This draft deprecates the use of the groupOfNames object class in
   RFC4519 [2] and replaces it with the groupOfEntries class.


5.  IANA considerations

   It is requested that IANA register upon Standards Action the
   groupOfEntries Object Identifier Descriptor and its associated OID.


6.  Security considerations

   Groups are commonly used to define access permissions to directory
   entries and resources in other services.  Allowing for empty groups
   avoids the risks associated with leaving a dummy placeholder member
   in group entries, so security is improved.


Appendix A.  Acknowledgements

   The author gratefully acknowledges the contributions of Michael
   Stroeder to the first draft of this document.


7.  Informative References

   [1]  "The Directory: Selected Object Classes", ITU-T
        Recommendation X.521, March 1988.

   [2]  "LDAP: Schema for User Applications", RFC 4519, June 2006.


Author's Address

   Andrew Findlay
   Skills 1st Ltd
   2 Cedar Chase
   Taplow
   Maidenhead  SL6 0EU
   GB

   Phone: +44 1628 782565
   Email: [email protected]
   URI:   http://www.skills-1st.co.uk/


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