Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
"Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)" <[email protected]> Fri, 3 Aug 2012 16:44:24 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.megaco |
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| Message-ID | <5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC96218B57EE91@FRMRSSXCHMBSD2.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> |
--===============6991334978104624854== Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC96218B57EE91FRMRSSXCHMBSD_" --_000_5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC96218B57EE91FRMRSSXCHMBSD_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas, hm ... 1st We do not need any new terminology in 3GPP, thus "CS FAX equipment" mus= t be replaced with term "G3FE" (T.38, cl. 3.3). 2nd There is no need to consider remote G3FE capabilities in detail (concer= ning your referred parameters), however, with the exception of V.34-capable= G3FE or non-V.34-capable G3FE. Thus: 3rd We may only talk about "T.38 endpoints", - and there are two types "T.3= 8/G3" and "T.38/V.34G3", see T.38, cl. 3.4 and 3.5. =3D> In the 3GPP Mn H.248 profile, it is recommended not to use this T.38 endpoi= nt capability. When sent by the MGCF, this value would relate to a T.38 end= point with support of that capability. The recommended value (which is also= the default value in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported by existing= T.38 endpoint implementations. /Albrecht From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Freitag, 3. August 2012 15:19 To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); [email protected] Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H= .248 signalling Thanks Albrecht, I can accept your last proposal. For your previous suggested change, given that the 3GPP Profile will not su= pport FAX transcoding (it seems you agree) perhaps we should not entirely r= emove those notes from table x.2.1. I can accept your change to Note 1. For= Note 2, we could write: In the 3GPP Mn H.248 profile, the T.30 protocol layer embedded within T.38 = is not modified. When sent by the MGCF, this value thus relates to capabili= ties of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF. The recommended va= lue (which is also the default value in T.38 version 4) is likely to be sup= ported by FAX equipment in CS networks. Thomas From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT= [email protected]] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 11:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H= .248 signalling With below indicated changes, we recommended the default settings for those= T.38 parameters, which is FALSE (i.e., 3GPP profiles would then recommend = NOT to use such T.38 configurations). Clause X.2 provides a RECOMMENDATION on T.38 configuration(s). Clause X.3 the correspondent negotiation procedures. I think that the prescriptive language between both clauses must be consist= ent (which isn't yet entirely the case in my opinion). E.g., Table X.3.1: T38FaxTranscodingJBIG Accept offer with value "FALSE" or parameter omitted. Otherwise reject offe= r (NOTE 3). Do not include parameter in the answer. (NOTE 2) =F0 Instead of "Otherwise reject offer (NOTE 3)." we should rather specify "Otherwise, offer SHOULD be rejected (NOTE x)" and NOTE x - This parameter is not recommended to use, but there might be remot= e T.38 endpoints with support of that capability. In order to improve the p= robability of a final successful T.38 call, the remote T.38 endpoint should= be indicated not to use this T.38 capability (see ANSWER). A pure rejection of the OFFER would immediately lead to an unsuccessful T. = 38 call. /Albrecht From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Freitag, 3. August 2012 10:46 To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); [email protected]<mailto:3GPP= [email protected]> Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H= .248 signalling Dear Albrecht, my proposal is still not include FAX "transcoding" in the 3GPP profile. Is = that acceptable to you? Thomas From: ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) [mailto:albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-luc= ent.com] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:25 AM To: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich); [email protected]<mailto= :[email protected]> Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H= .248 signalling Hello Thomas, looks like that we are now on the same page, i.e. if the T.38 endpoint (her= e IM-MGW) would support that capability, then it could be also used in the = negotiation of T.38 configurations with the remote T.38 endpoint. Hence, the T.38 parameters are not related to remote G3FEs. There would be then following changes in your CRs, let's take Table X.2.1 a= s example: Table X.2.1: Recommended configuration for T.38 SDP attribute values. T38FaxVersion Version 2 or higher. (NOTE 1) T38MaxBitRate 14 400 T38FaxFillBitRemoval FALSE (NOTE 2) T38FaxTranscodingMMR FALSE (NOTE 2) T38FaxTranscodingJBIG FALSE (NOTE 2) T38FaxRateManagement 'transferredTCF' T38FaxMaxBuffer 1800 T38FaxMaxDatagram At least 150 T38FaxMaxIFP 40 (NOTE 3) T38FaxUdpEC 't38UDPRedundancy' T38FaxUdpECDepth Minred: 1; Maxred: 2 (NOTE 3) T38FaxUdpFECMaxSpan 3 (NOTE 3) T38ModemType 't38G3FaxOnly' (NOTE 2, NOTE 3) NOTE 1: With Version 4, default values for the SDP attributes apply if t= he attributes are omitted. However, some values relate to capabilities of t= he remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF. NOTE 2: This value relates to capabilities of the remote CS FAX equipmen= t unknown to the MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the default val= ue in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment in CS netw= orks. NOTE 3: Only applicable for T.38 version 4. Would you agree? Albrecht From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Donnerstag, 2. August 2012 11:03 To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); [email protected]<mailto:3GPP= [email protected]> Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H= .248 signalling Hello Albrecht, a gateway could support FAX "transcoding", as I like to call it, and then u= se those parameters. But as Kevin wrote, it is highly unusual for MGW imple= mentations to do so. In my view we should not burden the MGW with such func= tionality and the benefit is also questionable, in particular because Kevin= believes the JBIG and NMR encoding are also rarely used by T.38 terminals.= I was rather envisioning a reframing of T.30 at the MGW. Reading your expl= anation that you support the default values I suspect this is also what you= r MGW does (as mine). Also in the table B.1 you attached those parameters a= re "optional". So, depending on MGW implementation, those could either be c= apabilities of the CS FAX equipment (if a reframing is done at the MGW as I= envision), or of the MGW (if the MGW performs FAX "transcoding"). For the 3GPP profiles, we do not necesarrily include any conceivable option= but only options with a real benefit. I would prefer not to include FAX "t= ranscoding" for the reasons outlined above. Assuming that we only want to u= se the default value, it does not need to be signalled to the MGW but can r= ather be a provisioned value. So I do not see a need to propagate those par= ameters over the Mn interface. Perhaps the NOTES should be phrased a bit clearer and include an explanatio= n that only T.30 reframing is included in the Mn profile and under this con= dition, those SDP attributes relate to capabilities of the CS FAX equipment= . Thomas From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT= [email protected]] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:05 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H= .248 signalling Hello Thomas, I followed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see that confirmation t= owards remote G3FE. Actually it's rather the opposite, see Kevin's reply to you: > (I did not find any definition of MMR format apart from "Modified > Modified Read" in T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as > the T.6 encoding. This also matches explanations in Wikipedia) > > *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates the ability to convert to/from JBIG > to reduce bandwidth. This > > is a boolean parameter (inclusion =3D true, exclusion =3D false). It is possible for a T.30<->T.38 gateway to provide these behaviors if desi= red, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ in some noticeable ways = from the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussions with various knowled= geable parties during our previous work in this group, it appears that it i= s highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway or terminal) to actuall= y perform any of these three functions. =F0 it's a gateway capability! =F0 all your three referred T.38 parameters are subject of the IM-MGW impl= ementation! and ALU supports the recommended default values by Table H.2/T.38 (which sh= ould be inline with your proposal). Hence, Kevin explicitly confirms this also as gateway capability! Regards, Albrecht From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46 To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); [email protected]<mailto:3GPP= [email protected]> Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H= .248 signalling Dear Albrecht, Thanks for your comments. with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38FaxTranscodingMMR and T38FaxTransc= odingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes 1 and 2 relate, I had some discus= sions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing list as you suggested. And it was confirmed that unless you do some "transcoding" of the payload w= ithin T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the remote CS FAX endpoin= t. However, people thought that not signaling those properties in H.248v4 m= ight be OK, because the default values which then apply are likely to be su= pported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue where I did not y= et receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the CS endpoint behaves= differently when sending. Thomas From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT= [email protected]] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248= signalling [Cc'd megaco list due to H.248.2] The T.38 parameters as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a T.38 endpoint= implementation, such as the T.38 user plane interworking function as e.g. = located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW). There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.38 configurations: 1. SDP-based: using T.38 Annex D defined SDP elements embedded in H.248 d= escriptors 2. Property-based: using H.248.2, IP Fax package defined properties, such= as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7 Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent of SD= P- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements relate to t= he T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE. [Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not yet con= tain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect is irrelevant in t= his discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the SDP-based method.] Thus, all "T.38 SDP attributes" (in C3-121327) are related to gateway capabilitie= s (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE= : attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, which again underlines the= relation to gateway capabilities). The MGC / MGCF may be either 1. aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or 2. unaware. Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management. Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even inef= fective H.248 scenarios for T.38. Dependent on the amount of "supported T.38 configuration(s)" knowledge at M= GC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures. Conclusions for C3-121327 (http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_= ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip): NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion. The text related to "remote CS FAX equipment" (term should be anyway replac= ed by term G3FE) should be just deleted. And there would be correspondent c= hanges at other tables. -Albrecht --_000_5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC96218B57EE91FRMRSSXCHMBSD_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content= =3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Micr= osoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; 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mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt;} ol {margin-bottom:0cm;} ul {margin-bottom:0cm;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue vlink= =3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon= t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'>Thomas, hm …<o= :p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cour= ier New";color:#C00000'>1<sup>st</sup> We do not need any new terminology i= n 3GPP, thus “CS FAX equipment” must be replaced with term R= 20;G3FE” (T.38, cl. 3.3).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><= span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color= :#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-= US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'>2<sup= >nd</sup> There is no need to consider remote G3FE capabilities in detail (= concerning your referred parameters), however, with the exception of V.34-c= apable G3FE or non-V.34-capable G3FE.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo= rmal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"= ;color:#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang= =3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'= >Thus:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style= =3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'>3<sup>rd</sup= > We may only talk about “T.38 endpoints”, - and there are two = types “T.38/G3” and “T.38/V.34G3”, see T.38, cl. 3.= 4 and 3.5.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US sty= le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'><o:p> = </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size= :10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'>=3D><o:p></o:p></span><= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f= amily:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In the 3GPP Mn H.248 profile, it is recommend= ed not to use this T.38 endpoint capability. When sent by the MGCF, this va= lue would relate to a T.38 endpoint with support of that capability. The re= commended value (which is also the default value in T.38 version 4) is like= ly to be supported by existing T.38 endpoint implementations.<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f= ont-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cou= rier New";color:#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><= span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color= :#C00000'>/Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3D= EN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'><o= :p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #= B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang= =3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:= </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma= ","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@n= sn.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 3. August 2012 15:19<br><b>To:</b> Schwar= z, Albrecht (Albrecht); [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> RE= : H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signal= ling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p= ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></= span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f= amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I can accept your last proposal= .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon= t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> = </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size= :11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For your previous= suggested change, given that the 3GPP Profile will not support FAX transco= ding (it seems you agree) perhaps we should not entirely remove those notes= from table x.2.1. I can accept your change to Note 1. For Note 2, we could= write:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style= =3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p= > </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo= nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In the 3GPP Mn H.248 pro= file, the T.30 protocol layer embedded within T.38 is not modified. When se= nt by the MGCF, this value thus relates to capabilities of the remote CS FA= X equipment unknown to the MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the d= efault value in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment = in CS networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U= S style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> = </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size= :11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0070C0'>Thomas<o:p></o:p>= </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0p= t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali= bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso= Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","= sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'b= order:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p cla= ss=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:= "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network= and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of = </b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 03, 201= 2 11:10 AM<br><b>To:</b> [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> R= e: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signa= lling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:= p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon= t-family:"Courier New";color:black'>With below indicated changes, we recomm= ended the default settings for those T.38 parameters, which is FALSE (i.e.,= 3GPP profiles would then <b>recommend</b> NOT to use such T.38 configurati= ons).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D= 'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p> </o:p><= /span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt= ;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Clause X.2 provides a RECOMMENDATIO= N on T.38 configuration(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span= lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:bla= ck'>Clause X.3 the correspondent negotiation procedures.<o:p></o:p></span><= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f= amily:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso= Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne= w";color:black'>I think that the prescriptive language between both clauses= must be consistent (which isn’t yet entirely the case in my opinion)= .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon= t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></spa= n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon= t-family:"Courier New";color:black'>E.g., Table X.3.1:<o:p></o:p></span></p= ><div align=3Dcenter><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing= =3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D643 style=3D'width:482.25pt;margin-left:-9.0cm= ;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=3D170 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:= 127.65pt;border:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;= padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b>T38FaxTranscodingJBIG</b><b>= <span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D246 valign=3D= top style=3D'width:184.3pt;border-top:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-left:no= ne;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt= ;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-US>Accept offe= r with value "FALSE" or parameter omitted. </span>Otherwise rejec= t offer (NOTE 3). <span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width= =3D227 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:6.0cm;border:solid windowtext 1.5pt;bord= er-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-US= >Do not include parameter in the answer. </span>(NOTE 2)<span lang=3DEN-GB>= <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span la= ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'= ><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-inde= nt:-18.0pt;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US= style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:black'><span style= =3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> = </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0p= t;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Instead of “</span><span lan= g=3DEN-US>Otherwise reject offer (NOTE 3).</span><span lang=3DEN-US style= =3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>” we shou= ld rather specify <br>“Otherwise, offer SHOULD be rejected (NOTE x)&#= 8221; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph><span lang=3DEN-= US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>NOTE x = – This parameter is not recommended to use, but there might be remote= T.38 endpoints with support of that capability. In order to improve the pr= obability of a final successful T.38 call, the remote T.38 endpoint should = be indicated not to use this T.38 capability (see ANSWER).<o:p></o:p></span= ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DM= soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New";color:black'>A pure rejection of the OFFER would immediately lead to a= n unsuccessful T. 38 call.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:blac= k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US styl= e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>/Albrecht<o:p>= </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size= :10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:olive'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>= <div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt= 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size= :10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-= US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, T= homas (NSN - DE/Munich) [<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mailto:t= [email protected]</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 3. August 2012 10:46<b= r><b>To:</b> Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG= [email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H= .248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signallin= g<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></= p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri= ","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se= rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c= olor:#1F497D'>my proposal is still not include FAX “transcoding”= ; in the 3GPP profile. Is that acceptable to you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c= lass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali= bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso= Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","= sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'b= order:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p cla= ss=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:= "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrech= t) [<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mailto:albrecht.= [email protected]</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 03, 2012 10= :25 AM<br><b>To:</b> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich); <a href=3D"mailto:3= [email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><b>Cc:</= b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><b>Subject:</b= > RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 si= gnalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> <= /o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;= font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Hello Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p= ><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam= ily:"Courier New";color:#003300'>looks like that we are now on the same pag= e, i.e. if the T.38 endpoint (here IM-MGW) would support that capability, t= hen it could be also used in the negotiation of T.38 configurations with th= e remote T.38 endpoint.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan= g=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300= '>Hence, the T.38 parameters are not related to remote G3FEs.<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f= ont-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>There would be then following chang= es in your CRs, let’s take Table X.2.1 as example:<o:p></o:p></span><= /p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f= amily:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DM= soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DTH><span lang=3D= EN-GB>Table <span style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>X</span>= .2.1: Recommended configuration for T.38 SDP attribute values.<o:p></o:p></= span></p><div align=3Dcenter><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cells= pacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D638 style=3D'width:478.5pt;margin-left:-= 142.3pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D= 'width:213.4pt;border-top:1.5pt;border-left:1.5pt;border-bottom:1.0pt;borde= r-right:1.0pt;border-color:windowtext;border-style:solid;padding:0cm 5.4pt = 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxVersion<o:p></o:p></s= pan></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;borde= r-top:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtex= t 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p= class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>Version 2 or higher. (NOTE 1)<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;b= order-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windo= wtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt= '><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38MaxBitRate<o:p></o:p></span></b><= /p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:non= e;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid = windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DE= N-GB>14 400<span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></td></= tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;= border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;bor= der-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTA= L><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxFillBitRemoval<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td>= <td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border= -left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowte= xt 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>FAL= SE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valig= n=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext= 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1= .0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38F= axTranscodingMMR<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop= style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol= id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0= cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p= ></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4= pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid w= indowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5= .4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxTranscodingJBIG<o:p></o:p>= </span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;bo= rder-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-= right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><s= pan lang=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><= td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-l= eft:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-righ= t:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><sp= an lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxRateManagement<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td widt= h=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:no= ne;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt= ;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'transferre= dTCF'<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style= =3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border= -bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:= 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxMaxBuffer<o= :p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:26= 5.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0p= t;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class= =3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>1800<span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span= ></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4= pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid w= indowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5= .4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxMaxDatagram<o:p></o:p></sp= an></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border= -top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-righ= t:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span = lang=3DEN-GB>At least 150<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D28= 5 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid win= dowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo= wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-= GB>T38FaxMaxIFP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop = style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli= d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0c= m 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>40 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p= ></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-t= op:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1= .0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p cl= ass=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpEC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><= td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-= left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtex= t 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'t38= UDPRedundancy'<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3D= top style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5= pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt= ;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUd= pECDepth<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style= =3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid win= dowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4= pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>Minred: 1; Maxred: 2 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o= :p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213= .4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid= windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm= 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpFECMaxSpan<o:p></o:p>= </span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;bo= rder-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-= right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><s= pan lang=3DEN-GB>3 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D= 285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid w= indowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid win= dowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DE= N-GB>T38ModemType<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dto= p style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so= lid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt = 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'t38G3FaxOnly' (<s>NOTE 2,</s>= NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D638 colspan=3D2 val= ign=3Dtop style=3D'width:478.85pt;border:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-top:= none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAN><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 1:= With Version 4, default values for the SDP attributes ap= ply if the attributes are omitted. <s>However, some values relate to capabi= lities of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF.</s><o:p></o:p></= span></p><p class=3DTAN><s><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 2: Thi= s value relates to capabilities of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to t= he MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the default value in T.38 ver= sion 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment in CS networks.<o:p></o:= p></span></s></p><p class=3DTAN><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 3: Onl= y applicable for T.38 version 4.<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></d= iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>= </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'fon= t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Would you agree?<o:p= ></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span= ></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cour= ier New";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'bord= er:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class= =3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"T= ahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:= 10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich= ) [<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mailto:[email protected]<= /a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Donnerstag, 2. August 2012 11:03<br><b>To:</b> Schwar= z, Albrecht (Albrecht); <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">3G= [email protected]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-controlled T.3= 8 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></span>= </p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNor= mal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san= s-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hello Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso= Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","= sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal= ><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s= erif";color:#1F497D'>a gateway could support FAX “transcoding”,= as I like to call it, and then use those parameters. But as Kevin wrote, i= t is highly unusual for MGW implementations to do so. In my view we should = not burden the MGW with such functionality and the benefit is also question= able, in particular because Kevin believes the JBIG and NMR encoding are al= so rarely used by T.38 terminals. I was rather envisioning a reframing of T= .30 at the MGW. Reading your explanation that you support the default value= s I suspect this is also what your MGW does (as mine). Also in the table B.= 1 you attached those parameters are “optional”. So, depending o= n MGW implementation, those could either be capabilities of the CS FAX equi= pment (if a reframing is done at the MGW as I envision), or of the MGW (if = the MGW performs FAX “transcoding”).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3D= MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri= ","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For the 3GPP profiles, we do not necesarrily = include any conceivable option but only options with a real benefit. I woul= d prefer not to include FAX “transcoding” for the reasons outli= ned above. Assuming that we only want to use the default value, it does not= need to be signalled to the MGW but can rather be a provisioned value. So = I do not see a need to propagate those parameters over the Mn interface.<o:= p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-si= ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:= p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.= 0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Perhaps the NOTES sho= uld be phrased a bit clearer and include an explanation that only T.30 refr= aming is included in the Mn profile and under this condition, those SDP att= ributes relate to capabilities of the CS FAX equipment.<o:p></o:p></span></= p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fa= mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p c= lass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali= bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso= Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c= olor:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style= =3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p= > </o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5= C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3D= EN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</s= pan></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","= sans-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [<a href=3D= "mailto:[email protected]">mailto:[email protected]= </a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> = Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG= [email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><b>Subject:</b>= Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 sig= nalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </= o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f= ont-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Hello Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami= ly:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN= ormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New= ";color:#993366'>I followed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see th= at confirmation towards remote G3FE.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor= mal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";= color:#993366'>Actually it’s rather the opposite, see Kevin’s r= eply to you:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US s= tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbs= p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>> (I did n= ot find any definition of MMR format apart from “Modified <o:p></o:p>= </span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>> Modified Read= 221; in T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as <o:p></o:p></s= pan></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>> the T.6 encoding. T= his also matches explanations in Wikipedia)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>> *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates = the ability to convert to/from JBIG <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPla= inText><span lang=3DEN-US>> to reduce bandwidth. This<o:p></o:p></span><= /p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>> is a boolean parameter (= inclusion =3D true, exclusion =3D false).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM= soPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPl= ainText><span lang=3DEN-US>It is <span style=3D'color:red'>possible for a T= .30<->T.38 gateway</span> to <span style=3D'color:red'>provide these = behaviors if desired</span>, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ = in some noticeable ways from the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussi= ons with various knowledgeable parties during our previous work in this gro= up, it appears that it is highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway= or terminal) to actually perform any of these three functions.<o:p></o:p><= /span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt= ;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p cl= ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"C= ourier New";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListPa= ragraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4'><![if !suppor= tLists]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;= color:#993366'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt= "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-U= S style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>itR= 17;s a gateway capability!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph= style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]= ><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#= 993366'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times= New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style= =3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>all your thre= e referred T.38 parameters are subject of the IM-MGW implementation!<o:p></= o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:1= 0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>and ALU supports the recomme= nded default values by Table H.2/T.38 (which should be inline with your pro= posal).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style= =3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p> </= o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:1= 0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Hence, Kevin explicitly conf= irms this also as gateway capability!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo= rmal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"= ;color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang= =3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'= >Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US styl= e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Albrecht<o:p= ></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo= r:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'= font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p>= </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family= :"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style= =3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><= p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa= mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon= t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE= /Munich) [<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mailto:thomas.belling@n= sn.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46<br><b>To:</b> S= chwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= G">[email protected]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-controlle= d T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></= span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DM= soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"= ,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali= bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso= Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","= sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks for your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><= p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil= y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38= FaxTranscodingMMR and T38FaxTranscodingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes = 1 and 2 relate, I had some discussions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing = list as you suggested.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang= =3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color= :#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-= US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49= 7D'>And it was confirmed that unless you do some “transcoding” = of the payload within T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the remot= e CS FAX endpoint. However, people thought that not signaling those propert= ies in H.248v4 might be OK, because the default values which then apply are= likely to be supported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue w= here I did not yet receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the CS = endpoint behaves differently when sending.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D= MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri= ","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor= mal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san= s-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s= pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri= f";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span la= ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col= or:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE= N-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F= 497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top= :solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><sp= an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"= '>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:= "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [= <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIS= T.ETSI.ORG</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>= Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><b>Su= bject:</b> H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.2= 48 signalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&n= bsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon= t-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>[Cc’d megaco list due to H.248.= 2]</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></= o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.= 0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'> </span><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier N= ew";color:#002060'>The <b>T.38 parameters</b> as defined by ITU-T T.38 are = related to a <b>T.38 endpoint implementation</b>, such as the <b>T.38 user = plane interworking function</b> as e.g. located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media= gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW).</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam= ily:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><s= pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>&nbs= p;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></= o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.= 0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>There are fundamentally two si= gnaling options for such T.38 configurations:</span><span style=3D'font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ol start= =3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-a= lt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo7'><b><span style= =3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>SDP-based</span></b><span s= tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>: using <b>T.38 Annex D= </b> defined SDP elements embedded in H.248 descriptors<o:p></o:p></span></= li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso= -margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo7'><b><span style=3D'font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Property-based</span></b><span style=3D= 'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>: using <b>H.248.2, IP Fax pac= kage</b> defined properties, such as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7<= o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si= ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'> </span><s= pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span>= </p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa= mily:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Both H.248 signalling options are basical= ly equivalent, - independent of SDP- or Property-based signaling elements. = The signaling elements relate to the T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G= 3FE.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>= </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1= 0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>[Note: the H.248 IP fax pack= age version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not yet contain the latest T.38V4 (2010= ) parameter. But this aspect is irrelevant in this discussion due to the pr= oposal in 3GPP for the SDP-based method.]</span><span style=3D'font-size:10= .0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se= rif";color:#002060'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil= y:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa= n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Thus,<= /span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p= ></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt= ;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>all “T.38 SDP attributes= 221; (in C3-121327) are related to gateway capabilities (such as supported = T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE: attached is T.38 Ta= ble B.1 for H.323 gateways, which again underlines the relation to gateway = capabilities).</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier N= ew"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f= ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>The MGC / MGCF may= be either</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'= ><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ol start=3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMsoNormal s= tyle=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ms= o-list:l0 level1 lfo10'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courie= r New"'>aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs = or<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-m= argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo10'><sp= an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>unaware.<o:p></o:p>= </span></li></ol><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;= font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Awareness may be achieved via audi= ting or configuration management.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon= t-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm= al><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'= >Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even ine= ffective H.248 scenarios for T.38.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor= mal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060= '>Dependent on the amount of “supported T.38 configuration(s)” = knowledge at MGC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A proced= ures.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p= ></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:= 10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'> </span><span= style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p= ></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil= y:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Conclusions for <b>C3-121327</b> (<a href=3D= "http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Do= cs/C3-121327.zip">http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TS= GC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip</a>):</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0= pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM= soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0= 02060'>NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.</span><spa= n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></= p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami= ly:"Courier New";color:#002060'>The <b>text</b> related to “remote CS= FAX equipment” (term should be anyway replaced by term G3FE) should = be just <b>deleted</b>. And there would be correspondent changes at other t= ables.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:= p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size= :10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'> </span><spa= n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></= p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami= ly:"Courier New";color:#002060'>-Albrecht</span><span style=3D'font-size:10= .0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se= rif";color:#002060'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil= y:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa= n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000= 0'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>= <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><di= v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri= ","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"C= ourier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>= --_000_5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC96218B57EE91FRMRSSXCHMBSD_-- --===============6991334978104624854== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Megaco mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco --===============6991334978104624854==--