Re: IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia University inthe City of New York's Statement about IPR relatedto draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13

Hi Calvin

Please see in line! 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
> Of Calvin Chu
> Sent: vrijdag 10 december 2010 6:27
> To: Georgios Karagiannis; Al Morton; Jukka Manner
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia 
> University inthe City of New York's Statement about IPR relatedto 
> draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13
> 
> All,
> 
> Is the Cisco style IPR disclosure the preferred format? The patent 
> reciprocity isn't a good fit for us (as a non-profit) but this spells 
> out a possible royalty as an option.

Georgios: Okay!

> 
> Based on various comments, I'm going to guess that no one here is 
> objecting to free experimental use, and free open-source use.

Georgios: Agree!
> 
> So one point of contention is Columbia's failure to submit this on 
> time.
> For this, I can offer my sincere apologies.  I was notified of this 
> unfortunately late in the game and it's outside of my ability to fix 
> this point.
> 
> The other point of contention is the FRAND terms in the situation it 
> becomes a protocol standard, and even then, only in the non-open 
> source case.

Georgios: Yes, for the case that the IPR is used in the non-open source
case, instead of asking a fee, you could try to accomplish a better
conformance of disclosure such as use of the Cisco style IPR Disclosure.

> 
> Is the issue: A) The fact that the fee is unknown B) The fact that 
> there is a fee at all or C) desire to see better conformance of 
> disclosure such as use of the Cisco style IPR disclosure

Georgios: Please see above!

Best regards,
Georgios

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Calvin Chu
> Senior Licensing Officer
> Columbia Technology Ventures
> http://techventures.columbia.edu
> Tel: (212) 851-4140
> Twitter: cchu
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:56 AM
> To: Calvin Chu; Al Morton; Jukka Manner
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia 
> University in the City of New York's Statement about IPR related to
> draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13
> 
> Hi Calvin
> 
> Regarding the situation that the document becomes a protocol standard, 
> could you use instead of the FRAND terms, a similar disclosure 
> statement as the one that is commonly used in the IETF. For example, 
> below you can see  a CISCO disclosure statement:
> 
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/817/
> 
> Best regards,
> Georgios
> 
> On 12/8/2010, "Calvin Chu" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >Yes. If it is Experimental Status, it is free, no need or
> obligation to
> >notify us.  Unless you want to.
> >
> >Calvin Chu
> >Senior Licensing Officer
> >Columbia Technology Ventures
> >http://techventures.columbia.edu
> >Tel: (212) 851-4140
> >Twitter: cchu
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Al Morton [mailto:[email protected]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:00 PM
> >To: Jukka Manner; Calvin Chu
> >Cc: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia
> University
> >in the City of New York's Statement about IPR related to
> >draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13
> >
> >I'd particularly like to know if the terms mean this:
> >
> >If the draft is published in Experimental status, then the
> IPR is free
> >(forever).
> >
> >Al
> >
> >At 03:27 PM 12/8/2010, Jukka Manner wrote:
> >>Hi Calvin, I'm not an expert in how people should or should not 
> >>disclose and phrase ipr statements. I hope other people on
> this list
> >>who are more experienced could provide guidance on how to
> resolve this
> >>issue in a positive way.
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>Jukka
> >>
> >>On 8.12.2010 20:17, Calvin Chu wrote:
> >>>All,
> >>>
> >>>I've just subscribed to the list so I'm trying to catch up to the 
> >>>current conversation.
> >>>
> >>>I'm open to modifying the terms, please send me
> suggestions.  As to
> >>>whether Columbia would just modify the terms arbitrarily later, I
> >could
> >>>get it into writing if that helps.
> >>>
> >>>I've been informed there are some questions regarding the specific
> >FRAND
> >>>terms in non-open source commercial situations. My thoughts were to
> >set
> >>>a simple flat fee for that sole situation.   If this is 
> reasonable, I
> >>>can defer to members of this list to suggest what may be fair.  If
> >this
> >>>does not sound reasonable, I'll do my best to make things right by
> >this
> >>>list members, after all, Columbia neglected to declare on time.
> >>>
> >>>Best regards,
> >>>
> >>>Calvin Chu
> >>>Senior Licensing Officer
> >>>Columbia Technology Ventures
> >>>http://techventures.columbia.edu
> >>>Tel: (212) 851-4140
> >>>Twitter: cchu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> On Behalf
> >Of
> >>>Roland Bless
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:24 AM
> >>>To: Fu, Xiaoming
> >>>Cc: Jukka Manner; [email protected]
> >>>Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia
> >University
> >>>in the City of New York's Statement about IPR related to
> >>>draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13
> >>>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>
> >>>[sorry, previous message was cut, I accidentally hit the
> send button
> >>>instead of the edit menu :-)]
> >>>
> >>>On 08.12.2010 08:55, Fu, Xiaoming wrote:
> >>>>I would vote for c).
> >>>
> >>>It's not clear to me what prevents the Columbia University from 
> >>>changing terms back later if they are changing the terms
> now on our
> >>>request?
> >>>
> >>>>a) Do members of the WG accept those terms,
> >>>>b) Do you want to redesign the protocol to work around the IPR,
> >>>>c) Do you want to ask Columbia to modify the terms, or
> >>>>d) Do we drop the document from the WG (authors can still pursue
> >>>publications through the independent track)?
> >>>
> >>>Jukka said:
> >>>>Please indicate your preference within two weeks, by
> Friday 17th at:
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.doodle.com/mb2gvfit64bnya99
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>   Roland
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>nsis mailing list
> >>>[email protected]
> >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
> >>
> >>--
> >>Jukka MJ Manner, Professor, PhD.  Phone:  +358+(0)9+470 22481
> >>Aalto University                  Mobile: +358+(0)50+5112973
> >>Department of Communications      Fax:    +358+(0)9+470 22474
> >>and Networking (Comnet)           Office: G320a (Otakaari 5A)
> >>P.O. Box 13000, FIN-00076 Aalto   E-mail: [email protected]
> >>Finland                           www.netlab.hut.fi/~jmanner/
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>nsis mailing list
> >>[email protected]
> >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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