[openpgp] Re: Size of ML-DSA Secret key in draft-ietf-openpg p-pqc and other considerations

Hi Aron,

I agree with the proposed change. By no means the OpenPGP PQC RFC should 
be a blocker for CNSA compliance.

Best regards,
Falko

Am 10.02.25 um 22:23 schrieb Aron Wussler:
> Hi Simo,
>
>> Yes this is the only "blocker" I have,
>> We use PGP for signing packages and we really need a way to be CNSA 2.0
>> compliant.
> Sounds like a fair point! I prepared a PR here:https://github.com/openpgp-pqc/draft-openpgp-pqc/pull/166
>
> If the list agrees with this, happy to get it merged :)
>
> Cheers,
> Aron
>
>
>
> --
> Aron Wussler
> Sent with ProtonMail, OpenPGP key 0x7E6761563EFE3930
>
>
>
> On Monday, 10 February 2025 at 21:33, Simo Sorce<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Aron,
>>
>> On Mon, 2025-02-10 at 17:14 +0000, Aron Wussler wrote:
>>
>>> Note that the specification is only for the wire format, and transferring among identical tokens will still be possible, no matter the format we choose.
>> It think this might come to bite in the future, but I do not have the
>> energy to argue for it now. Once we'll have interop issue I'll let you
>> guys deal with it :)
>>
>>> 2. Code points
>>> This was discussed at IETF 117, 118 and 119. We concluded that this could be done in a separate doc, adding a further codepoint for ML-DSA (or ML-KEM) as standalone when the WG feels ready for it.
>> Just to be clear the reason I am asking is that CNSA 2.0 "seems" to
>> exclude hybrids (I know, not my choice, they also do not allow SLH-DSA
>> which I would very much prefer for long term signatures... ).
>>
>> I think I can "work around" this by simply ignoring the spec and
>> considering a signature valid even if the EdDSA part is unchecked, and
>> live with that.
>>
>> For tokens that support only one key this is more challenging, but I
>> guess one of the two keys will have to stay on disk and be less secure
>> until a new spec that allows for "pure" algorithms is provided.
>>
>>> 3. Signature data digests
>>> I honestly have seen that requirement, and am still wondering why the hell it is there. I don't understand it, and the "SHA-3 limits interoperability" reason sounds really weird to me, feels to me as "we have a machine in the basement that can break this hash". Happy to hear other reasons tho.
>>>
>>> Said this, if for you this is a blocker for RHEL, I think we can revisit the hash binding requirement.
>> Yes this is the only "blocker" I have,
>> We use PGP for signing packages and we really need a way to be CNSA 2.0
>> compliant.
>> At this time it means ML-DSA-87 for signatures and either SHA-384 or
>> SHA-512 for content hashes.
>>
>> I do not think the NSA can break SHA2 as they allow SHA3/SHAKE as
>> internal implementations in the signature algorithms. I think this is
>> more of a case of: "we have accelerators that can speed up SHA2 but not
>> SHA3 and we want to keep using them for the time being to produce
>> content hashes"
>>
>> This is my speculation, several of their positions are questionable,
>> but I still need to be able to support their preferences as they are
>> not broken (as far as we know).
>>
>> Best,
>> Simo.
>>
>> --
>> Simo Sorce
>> Distinguished Engineer
>> RHEL Crypto Team
>> Red Hat, Inc
>>
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-- 

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