[openpgp] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: draft-ietf-openpgp-nist-b p-comp: add Category-5/P-384 combinations
Falko Strenzke <[email protected]> Tue, 07 Jul 2026 14:58:17 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.openpgp |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============7426468122820629198== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-/0LgMy5eRdzn7zCZTeNk" --=-/0LgMy5eRdzn7zCZTeNk Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-/iimanWHN1KlrAvpShQg" --=-/iimanWHN1KlrAvpShQg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Indeed, it's possible to write a draft and then have code points assigned v= ia the "specification required" rule for assigning code points. An RFC is n= ot necessary for assigning code points. WG approval is also not required. Falko On Tue, 2026-07-07 at 10:40 +0000, Dang, Quynh H. (Fed) wrote: > Hi Gergely, > =C2=A0 > One thing I know you can do is to write a short draft specifying the opti= ons that you need/want, then ask the working group to adopt it. =C2=A0If th= e working group does not adopt it, you could ask for only code points (I d= on=E2=80=99t know if the working group would approve that). > =C2=A0 > Regards, > Quynh. > =C2=A0 > **From:** NGG <[email protected]> =20 > **Sent:** Monday, July 6, 2026 11:05 AM =20 > **To:** Falko Strenzke <[email protected]> =20 > **Cc:** [email protected] =20 > **Subject:** [EXTERNAL] [openpgp] Re: draft-ietf-openpgp-nist-bp-comp: ad= d Category-5/P-384 combinations >=20 >=20 > =C2=A0 > You don't often get email from [[email protected]](ma= ilto:[email protected]). [ > Learn why this is important](https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentificatio= n) >=20 > Hello Falko, > Thanks for the question. > I did not mean that any single one of the existing profiles requires both= hybrid use and category-5 ML-* alone. > My point is interoperability across profiles: some environments allow P-3= 84 but not P-521, while other requirements may call for category-5 ML-*. Im= plementations may need one standardized hybrid option that works across as = many such environments as possible. > So the goal is not to satisfy a single profile with one algorithm choice,= but to define an optional P-384/category-5 combination that is broadly usa= ble across multiple profiles and avoids private, non-standard combinations. > Best regards, =20 > Gergely >=20 > =C2=A0 > Falko Strenzke <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> = ezt =C3=ADrta (id=C5=91pont: 2026. j=C3=BAl. 6., H, 16:35): >=20 >=20 > > Hi Gergely, > > =20 > > =C2=A0 > > =20 > > On Sat, 2026-06-20 at 22:56 +0200, NGG wrote: > > =20 > > =20 > > > Hello OpenPGP WG, =20 > > > =20 > > > I would like to suggest adding the following optional combinations t= o=C2=A0draft-ietf-openpgp-nist-bp-comp: =20 > > > =20 > > > * ML-KEM-1024+ECDH-NIST-P-384 =20 > > > * ML-DSA-87+ECDSA-NIST-P-384 =20 > > > =20 > > > The current draft pairs the category-5 ML-* parameter sets only with= =C2=A0P-521, while P-384 is paired with category-3. =20 > > > =20 > > > The motivation is compliance interoperability.=20 > > > Some deployed profiles,=C2=A0including CNSA 1.0 and NATO FMN certif= icate profiles,=C2=A0admit P-384 but not P-521.=20 > > > Separately, other policies or deployment requirements=C2=A0may call= for the category-5 ML-* parameter sets. > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > What requirements of profiles are you exactly referring to? CNSA does= not require multi-algorithm at all, so for this purpose the security level= of the traditional component should not matter. In fact it could simply be= ignored for the signature at least. > > =20 > > =C2=A0 > > =20 > > Falko > > =20 > > =20 > > > =20 > > > These are not necessarily requirements imposed by the same profile, = but=C2=A0software may need to operate across several such environments. > > > =20 > > > Standardized P-384/category-5 combinations would provide a useful= =C2=A0intersection. =20 > > > =20 > > > There is already relevant IETF precedent: =20 > > > =20 > > > * The TLS ECDHE-MLKEM specification defines SecP384r1MLKEM1024. =20 > > > * The LAMPS composite-signature specification defines id-MLDSA87-ECD= SA-P384-SHA512. =20 > > > =20 > > > These combinations could be added alongside the existing P-521 varia= nts,=C2=A0without changing or replacing them. =20 > > > =20 > > > Would the WG consider adding them? =20 > > > =20 > > > Best regards,=20 > > > Gergely Nagy > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > ``` > _______________________________________________ > ``` > ``` > openpgp mailing list -- [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) > ``` > ``` > To unsubscribe send an email to [[email protected]](mailto:openpgp-l= [email protected]) > ``` > =20 > > =C2=A0 > > =20 > > ``` > -- ``` > MTG AG > > =20 > > Dr. Falko Strenzke > > =20 > > =C2=A0 > > =20 > > Phone: +49 6151 8000 24 > > =20 > > E-Mail: [ > > [email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) > > =20 > > Web: [mtg.de](http://mtg.de/) > > =20 > > =C2=A0 > > =20 > > MTG AG - Dolivostr. 11 - 64293 Darmstadt, Germany > > =20 > > Commercial register: HRB 8901 > > =20 > > Register Court: Amtsgericht Darmstadt > > =20 > > Management Board: J=C3=BCrgen Ruf (CEO), Tamer Kemer=C3=B6z > > =20 > > Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Thomas Milde > > =20 > > =C2=A0 > > =20 > > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If= you are not the correct recipient or have received this email in error, > > =20 > > please inform the sender immediately and delete this email.Unauthoris= ed copying or distribution of this email is not permitted. > > =20 > > =C2=A0 > > =20 > > Data protection information: Privacy policy > > =20 > > =C2=A0 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --=20 ``` MTG AG Dr. Falko Strenzke Phone: +49 6151 8000 24 E-Mail: [email protected] Web: mtg.de MTG AG - Dolivostr. 11 - 64293 Darmstadt, Germany Commercial register: HRB 8901 Register Court: Amtsgericht Darmstadt Management Board: J=C3=BCrgen Ruf (CEO), Tamer Kemer=C3=B6z Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Thomas Milde This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you a= re not the correct recipient or have received this email in error, please inform the sender immediately and delete this email.Unauthorised cop= ying or distribution of this email is not permitted. Data protection information: Privacy policy ``` --=-/iimanWHN1KlrAvpShQg Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <p>Indeed, it's possible to write a draft and then have code points assigne= d via the "specification required" rule for assigning code points= . An RFC is not necessary for assigning code points. WG approval is also no= t required.</p> <p>Falko</p> <p>On Tue, 2026-07-07 at 10:40 +0000, Dang, Quynh H. (Fed) wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <p>Hi Gergely, =C2=A0 One thing I know you can do is to write a short draft specifying the option= s that you need/want, then ask the working group to adopt it. =C2=A0If the = working group does not adopt it, you could ask for only code points (I don= =E2=80=99t know if the working group would approve that). =C2=A0 Regards, Quynh. =C2=A0 <strong>From:</strong> NGG <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= >[email protected]</a><br /> <strong>Sent:</strong> Monday, July 6, 2026 11:05 AM<br /> <strong>To:</strong> Falko Strenzke <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ">[email protected]</a><br /> <strong>Cc:</strong> [email protected]<br /> <strong>Subject:</strong> [EXTERNAL] [openpgp] Re: draft-ietf-openpgp-nist-= bp-comp: add Category-5/P-384 combinations</p> <p>=C2=A0 You don't often get email from <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected].= org">[email protected]</a>. <a href=3D"https://aka.ms/LearnAbou= tSenderIdentification"> Learn why this is important</a></p> <pre><code> Hello Falko, </code></pre> <p>Thanks for the question. I did not mean that any single one of the existing profiles requires both h= ybrid use and category-5 ML-* alone. My point is interoperability across profiles: some environments allow P-384= but not P-521, while other requirements may call for category-5 ML-*. Impl= ementations may need one standardized hybrid option that works across as ma= ny such environments as possible. So the goal is not to satisfy a single profile with one algorithm choice, b= ut to define an optional P-384/category-5 combination that is broadly usabl= e across multiple profiles and avoids private, non-standard combinations. Best regards,<br /> Gergely</p> <p>=C2=A0 Falko Strenzke <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">falko.strenzke@= mtg.de</a>> ezt =C3=ADrta (id=C5=91pont: 2026. j=C3=BAl. 6., H, 16:35):<= /p> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <pre><code>Hi Gergely, </code></pre> <p>=C2=A0</p> <p>On Sat, 2026-06-20 at 22:56 +0200, NGG wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <p>Hello OpenPGP WG,</p> <p>I would like to suggest adding the following optional combinations to=C2= =A0draft-ietf-openpgp-nist-bp-comp:</p> <ul> <li>ML-KEM-1024+ECDH-NIST-P-384</li> <li>ML-DSA-87+ECDSA-NIST-P-384</li> </ul> <p>The current draft pairs the category-5 ML-* parameter sets only with=C2= =A0P-521, while P-384 is paired with category-3.</p> <p>The motivation is compliance interoperability. Some deployed profiles,=C2=A0including CNSA 1.0 and NATO FMN certificate pr= ofiles,=C2=A0admit P-384 but not P-521. Separately, other policies or deployment requirements=C2=A0may call for the= category-5 ML-* parameter sets.</p> </blockquote> <p>What requirements of profiles are you exactly referring to? CNSA does no= t require multi-algorithm at all, so for this purpose the security level of= the traditional component should not matter. In fact it could simply be ig= nored for the signature at least.</p> <p>=C2=A0</p> <p>Falko</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <p>These are not necessarily requirements imposed by the same profile, but= =C2=A0software may need to operate across several such environments.</p> <p>Standardized P-384/category-5 combinations would provide a useful=C2=A0i= ntersection.</p> <p>There is already relevant IETF precedent:</p> <ul> <li>The TLS ECDHE-MLKEM specification defines SecP384r1MLKEM1024.</li> <li>The LAMPS composite-signature specification defines id-MLDSA87-ECDSA-P3= 84-SHA512.</li> </ul> <p>These combinations could be added alongside the existing P-521 variants,= =C2=A0without changing or replacing them.</p> <p>Would the WG consider adding them?</p> <p>Best regards, Gergely Nagy</p> <pre><code></code></pre> </blockquote> </blockquote> <hr /> <pre><code></code></pre> <p>openpgp mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">openpgp@ietf= .org</a></p> <pre><code></code></pre> <p>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ">[email protected]</a></p> <pre><code>=20 > =C2=A0 > =20 > ``` -- ``` MTG AG > =20 > Dr. Falko Strenzke > =20 > =C2=A0 > =20 > Phone: +49 6151 8000 24 > =20 > E-Mail: [ > [email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) > =20 > Web: [mtg.de](http://mtg.de/) > =20 > =C2=A0 > =20 > MTG AG - Dolivostr. 11 - 64293 Darmstadt, Germany > =20 > Commercial register: HRB 8901 > =20 > Register Court: Amtsgericht Darmstadt > =20 > Management Board: J=C3=BCrgen Ruf (CEO), Tamer Kemer=C3=B6z > =20 > Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Thomas Milde > =20 > =C2=A0 > =20 > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. I= f you are not the correct recipient or have received this email in error, > =20 > please inform the sender immediately and delete this email.Unauthori= sed copying or distribution of this email is not permitted. > =20 > =C2=A0 > =20 > Data protection information: Privacy policy > =20 > =C2=A0 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > </code></pre> </blockquote> <p>-- <br></p> <div>MTG AG</div><div>Dr. Falko Strenzke</div><div><br></div><div>Phone: +4= 9 6151 8000 24</div><div>E-Mail: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">f= [email protected]</a></div><div>Web: mtg.de</div><div><br></div><div>MTG= AG - Dolivostr. 11 - 64293 Darmstadt, Germany</div><div>Commercial registe= r: HRB 8901</div><div>Register Court: Amtsgericht Darmstadt</div><div>Manag= ement Board: J=C3=BCrgen Ruf (CEO), Tamer Kemer=C3=B6z</div><div>Chairman o= f the Supervisory Board: Dr. Thomas Milde</div><div><br></div><div>This ema= il may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not t= he correct recipient or have received this email in error,</div><div>please= inform the sender immediately and delete this email.Unauthorised copying o= r distribution of this email is not permitted.</div><div><br></div><div>Dat= a protection information: Privacy policy</div><div><br></div> --=-/iimanWHN1KlrAvpShQg-- --=-/0LgMy5eRdzn7zCZTeNk Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCFaMw ggX1MIIE3aADAgECAhAroJrQUI3BFzEId5iozbOpMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJERTErMCkGA1UECgwiVC1TeXN0ZW1zIEVudGVycHJpc2UgU2VydmljZXMgR21iSDEfMB0GA1UE CwwWVC1TeXN0ZW1zIFRydXN0IENlbnRlcjElMCMGA1UEAwwcVC1UZWxlU2VjIEdsb2JhbFJvb3Qg Q2xhc3MgMjAeFw0yMzA2MjAwOTIxNDVaFw0zMzA2MTkyMzU5NTlaMGoxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMScw JQYDVQQKDB5EZXV0c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIFNlY3VyaXR5IEdtYkgxMjAwBgNVBAMMKVRlbGVrb20g 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