[OPS-AREA]Re: [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@I ETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status & Exploring Collabor ation Opportunities [Commercial - Anyone]
Christopher Janz <[email protected]> Thu, 25 Jun 2026 11:55:49 +0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.ops,gmane.ietf.opsawg |
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--===============5983977670818086899== Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_bc043c0d9b764f75a061d3c879d3ab00huaweicom_" --_000_bc043c0d9b764f75a061d3c879d3ab00huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Brad, I agree with you on direction: AI-native autonomy and grounding probabilist= ic agents in something factual. I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd like to pull a bit more on t= he modeling thread. Data models and knowledge graphs are both concrete commitments to an ontolo= gy - one as schema, the other as schema populated with instances. So, it=1B= $B!G=1B(Bs really a question of purpose: which representation is best suite= d to a given objective. A data model commits meaning to a specific machine = form, which buys determinism and verifiability at the cost of flexibility -= a YANG module is the right artifact where a stable, high-volume interface = needs interop (config, telemetry subscriptions). A graph suits the cases wh= ere the questions are cross-domain and not knowable in advance - correlatin= g inventory, topology, alarms, telemetry, anomalies that no single system o= wns. Anomaly diagnosis I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd put on the graph side - mostly correlation= and traversal over heterogeneous, incompletely-anticipated evidence. But h= ybrid: link the fast telemetry rather than ingest it. Which is your tempora= l-gap design - graph for the slow-moving relationships, streamed models for= the fast state. But one might ask: what is the best focal point for standardization going f= orward? The emerging world is one in which systems are cognitive. In the pr= e-cognitive world, data models - a stable basis for system-to-system commun= ication - were the natural targets for standardization. Cognitive systems m= ay not require that basis a priori. Your YANG=1B$B"*=1B(BOWL compiler is, i= n effect, the first step - the =1B$B!H=1B(Blift=1B$B!I=1B(B portion - of a = mediation: making a model=1B$B!G=1B(Bs implicit ontology explicit. The onto= logy reconciliation draft I mentioned takes it from there, with two cogniti= ve agents reconciling their ontologies conversationally and generating dete= rministic translators, no common data model assumed. So, the effective question may be: if agents can converge on semantics and = lexicon by themselves - no initially shared data model, implicit ontologies= that may differ in various ways - what is most useful to standardize? My b= et is categorical ontologies and their terminologies - shared reference cor= es that ground, de-risk and speed automated mediation without imposing rigi= dity. Tellingly, a hard field problem cuts the same way: identity resolutio= n - deciding that several systems=1B$B!G=1B(B identifiers denote the same s= witch - is never solved by a rigid, complete data model (that only breeds t= ranslation tables and exception logic); it is made tractable by shared refe= rence semantics, which align the attributes you match on and move resolutio= n from the probabilistic regime toward the deterministic one. That speaks t= o where standardization earns its keep, not to dissolving entity resolution= , which stays implementation. Of course, purpose-optimized data models woul= d remain useful references and examples, and KGs are important system tools= - but the high-leverage standard artifacts may be moving up the abstractio= n stack, toward shared ontological cores rather than complete ontologies an= d fixed data structures. Best, Chris From: Brad Peters <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2026 7:02 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; nmop@ietf= .org; [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: [nmrg] Re: [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS T= ransfer: Status & Exploring Collaboration Opportunities [Commercial - Anyon= e] Hi Thomas, Thank you for kicking off this discussion. The intersection of these workin= g groups aligns perfectly with the transition the industry is already makin= g: moving from AI-Enabled Network Operations to AI-Native Autonomous Operat= ions. To directly address your questions regarding how AI agents interact with Kn= owledge Graphs, Intent, and YANG data, I believe we must first distinguish = between automation and autonomy. Currently, most industry efforts focus on AI-enabled operations, essentiall= y using AI to assist human operators within legacy functional processes. Th= is places a layer of automation on top of existing silos (event/fault, perf= ormance, security, accounting). The fatal flaw here is that our current eve= nt/telemetry pipelines are fundamentally designed for human consumption. We= aggressively filter, aggregate, and discard high-frequency signals because= a human operator cannot process them. By doing so, we actively destroy the= granular context an AI needs. Creating a foundational model of the network and enriching it with state-ba= sed and fast-moving contextual data like streaming telemetry, is critical f= or providing AI agents with the information they need. We must shift from d= esign-time hardcoding to run-time enablement. Agents must be able to self-a= dapt while remaining grounded in factual reality, complete with the capabil= ity to safely test and evaluate insights before execution. AI-Native management is about true autonomy: operating on the network with = complete, unified context to produce an action with a high confidence inter= val. This is where the intersection of your mentioned topics becomes critic= al: * Grounding the Agent: LLMs are inherently probabilistic. To make deter= ministic, factual decisions, they require a grounding point. Knowledge Grap= hs (KGs) provide this definitive, end-to-end view of the network state. * Run-Time vs. Design-Time: Legacy automation embeds operational knowle= dge directly into the application code, creating a massive barrier to chang= e. A well-structured ontology allows us to separate the knowledge from the = application. Agents can infer and reason over the graph to adapt at run-tim= e rather than waiting for design-time code changes. * Bridging the Temporal Gap: A Knowledge Graph provides the determinist= ic baseline of slow-moving inventory and topological state. Real-time mecha= nisms like YANG-Push and gRPC provide the fast moving state and potentially= temporal (TSDB) data that overlays onto that graph. Together, they give th= e agent a complete slice of the operational environment to evaluate and tes= t proposed changes before execution. (Use of a context broker as per Telefo= nicia ETSI Common Information Model). This architectural shift is actively gaining traction. Just today, CommsDay= (an Australian Communication focused publication) highlighted a major Aust= ralian carrier rearchitecting their operations around a knowledge plane for= the reasons above. I presented on this exact challenge at the Broadband Fo= rum in March, specifically addressing the TM Forum autonomy ladder and the = "Knowledge Limit" that is hit at Level 3 if we rely on event-driven automat= ion rather than knowledge-driven autonomy. This links directly to, and is supported by, the previous IETF Knowledge Gr= aph team papers: * https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mackey-nmop-kg-for-netops/ * https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tailhardat-nmop-incident-manag= ement-noria/ Regarding "running code" and practical intersections, I have been developin= g a semantic compiler to translate IETF YANG models into OWL ontologies. Th= e goal is to layer additional semantics on top of the base models to suppor= t AI agents, integrating RFC9315 Operational Intent with TM Forum ontologie= s (like the TIO). You can view the current progress of bridging these domai= ns here: https://github.com/bradspau/Network-Ontology-Knowledge-Graphs. I believe exploring this semantic bridge, how IETF data models map to the o= ntologies required by systems for autonomous reasoning, would be a highly v= aluable agenda item for our joint discussions. Ultimately, this technology change demands a rethink of who is conducting t= he processes of the past. Are we still curating data for human limitations,= creating dashboards, and relying upon human interpretation? Or are agents = and systems now the primary receivers of data, responsible for producing te= sted operational insights and recommendations? Will be interesting to see how this unfolds with those that are current imp= lementers/developping. Cheers. Brad ________________________________ From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <Thomas.Gra= [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2026 6:43 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:o= [email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]= g<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <nmop@ietf.= org<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <nmrg@irtf.= org<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <moha= [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: St= atus & Exploring Collaboration Opportunities EXTERNAL SENDER - Be cautious opening Links and Attachments Dear NMRG, NMOP, OPSAWG and OPSAREA, First of all many thanks to Brad, Dan, Christopher, Alex, Qin and Bernard o= n their feedback. That=1B$B!G=1B(Bs a great start. I have been following this thread closely https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch= /msg/nmop/gTPL1eBj5e3GMMt8qeUWmPP4oMg/ to understand wherever research and = industry adoption comes closer together, wherever there is interest for hav= ing a joint discussion and on what particular topic. What I observed so far is that we all share that AI in general and also AIO= ps research and adoption rate has dramatically increased. So far everybody = was very supportive on having a joint discussion. I would be interested to = have more feedback, especially also from those who think that it would not = bring much benefit with reasons why. >From what I observed, having an initial discussion on the following existin= g working group document topics and how they intersect * Network Digital Twin (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irt= f-nmrg-network-digital-twin-arch) * Intent-Based Networking (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-= irtf-nmrg-ibn-usecases) * SIMAP (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-nmop-simap-co= ncept) * YANG-Push to Message Broker integration (https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/html/draft-ietf-nmop-yang-message-broker-integration) and then having a discussions on the following raised questions perhaps: * Which AI agents capabilities are suitable for network management? * What is the impact of an AI network management process to YANG inform= ation, service, network and data modelling? * Is MCP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Context_Protocol) a suita= ble protocol between AI agents and IETF network management data sources and= system components? * How does an AI agent interact with Network Digital Twin, Intent-Based= Networking, SIMAP, Knowledge Graphs and YANG data in Message Brokers? and move from there into some proposed work addressing these areas. And las= t but not least maybe wrapping up around running code. How experiments coul= d facilitate and exchange between both working groups. Alex brought up that= ANRW is once a year and perhaps on one or two other occasion the two worki= ng group could continuously actively exchange every year could be an intere= sting proposal. * Would that be a potential interesting agenda for everybody? * Did I miss anything or shall we focus more on a particular item? * Any particular discussion structure you would fancy? I also observed that authors authoring Knowledge Graph documents have voice= d wherever Knowledge Graph could be a topic of interest. I would love to se= e more discussions from other areas on this in particular how this intersec= ts with AIOps and AI assisted network management topics. I saw also that on= tologies have been mentioned, which I personally besides semantics believe = plays an important role with interacting with AI agents. As I am human, and not an AI agent, the observations and suggestions might = be unintentionally bias. So please feedback and comment. Best wishes Thomas From: Graf Thomas, SCS-INI-NET-VNC-E2E Sent: Monday, June 1, 2026 7:16 AM To: Nmop <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:nmrg@i= rtf.org> Cc: Mohamed Boucadair <[email protected]<mailto:mohamed.boucadai= [email protected]>>; nmrg-chairs <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]= rg>>; Nmop-chairs <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: FW: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status & Exploring C= ollaboration Opportunities Dear NMRG and NMOP, Med approached me wherever I am willing to facilitate with the support of b= oth working group chairs a discussion between NMRG and NMOP on common inter= ests. Looking at the list of current adopted documents https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/nmrg/documents/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nmop/documents/ but also looking at AIOps related proposals https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/= misc/blob/main/ai-submissions-ietf125.md, and the related past side meeting= s in the network management domain, I see that the lifecycle on research an= d industry adoption of model and data driven network management becomes acc= elerated and therefore research and industry adoption comes more and more c= loser together. Looking at the bluesheets of IETF 125, I see that we had 10= 7 participants for NMRG and 115 for NMOP and 36 participants were attending= both NMRG and NMOP. Or in other words, I personally believe that both working groups have a lot= in common but also a also few things which makes them very unique and inte= resting to facilitate such a discussion. I might be wrong and therefore would like to get some feedback from both ma= iling lists first: * Would you agree that the lifecycle on research and industry adoption = of model and data driven network management becomes accelerated and therefo= re research and industry adoption comes more and more closer together? * Is there an interest at the NMRG and NMOP communities to have an exch= ange on currently adopted and future proposed work to identify synergies an= d common interests in both working groups and discuss how they could be add= ressed better? * Do you have a particular topic, set of documents or interest already = in mind? Best wishes Thomas From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <mo= [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2026 10:21 AM To: Graf Thomas, SCS-INI-NET-VNC-E2E <[email protected]<mailto:Thoma= [email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; N= mop-chairs <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: ops-ads <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Dirk KUTSCHER <iet= [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status & Exploring Colla= boration Opportunities Be aware: This is an external email. Hi all, I had several discussions recently with many IETF participants about the re= lationship between some work done in the IRTF and IETF. Specifically, I hea= rd several questions about the current mode of operation between NMRG and O= PS and whether/how activity transfer is happening between the two communiti= es. I do see a value in bringing some of these items from hallway discussio= n to our formal meetings :-) This can be the opportunity to explore between collaboration between the co= mmunities, and not rely only on the leadership level. See, for example, the= following excerpt form the NMRG Charter: =1B$B!H=1B(BThe IETF Operations and Management Area Directors are member= s of the NMRG mailing list and invited to NMRG meetings in order to ensure free flow o= f information in both directions, and to avoid duplication of work with th= e various IETF working groups.=1B$B!I=1B(B There are several WG/RG pairs that may be considered for collaboration (NMR= G/NMOP, MAPRG/IPPM, etc.) but I think that it would be better to scope the = discussion to a specific area. I suggest to focus this time on NMRG/NMOP. Thomas kindly accepted to drive a discussion on this topic in the IETF#126 = OPSAREA Session with some proposals to bridge both communities. Thomas is a= lso willing to collect feedback and coordinate between the NMRG/NMOP Chairs= , in particular. @NMOP/@NMRG Chairs: Would you be interested/willing to work with Thomas to = consolidate some discussion material? Thoughts and suggestions are welcome. Thank you. Cheers, Med ___________________________________________________________________________= _________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. 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mso-level-text:\F0A7; mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} @list l8:level7 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:\F0A7; mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} @list l8:level8 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:\F0A7; mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} @list l8:level9 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:\F0A7; mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:brea= k-word"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Hi B= rad,<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">I ag= ree with you on direction: AI-native autonomy and grounding probabilistic a= gents in something factual. I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd like to pull a bit more on the m= odeling thread.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Data= models and knowledge graphs are both concrete commitments to an ontology &= #8212; one as schema, the other as schema populated with instances. So, it= =1B$B!G=1B(Bs really a question of purpose: which representation is best suited to a given objective. A data model commits meaning to a spe= cific machine form, which buys determinism and verifiability at the cost of= flexibility — a YANG module is the right artifact where a stable, hi= gh-volume interface needs interop (config, telemetry subscriptions). A graph suits the cases where the questions are = cross-domain and not knowable in advance — correlating inventory, top= ology, alarms, telemetry, anomalies that no single system owns.<o:p></o:p><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Anom= aly diagnosis I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd put on the graph side — mostly correlati= on and traversal over heterogeneous, incompletely-anticipated evidence. But= hybrid: link the fast telemetry rather than ingest it. Which is your temporal-gap design — graph for the slow-moving relati= onships, streamed models for the fast state.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">But = one might ask: what is the best focal point for standardization going forwa= rd? The emerging world is one in which systems are cognitive. In the pre-co= gnitive world, data models — a stable basis for system-to-system communication — were the natural targets = for standardization. Cognitive systems may not require that basis <i>a priori</i>. Your YANG=1B$B"*=1B(BOWL compiler is, in effect, the first= step — the =1B$B!H=1B(Blift=1B$B!I=1B(B portion — of a mediati= on: making a model=1B$B!G=1B(Bs implicit ontology explicit. The ontology re= conciliation draft I mentioned takes it from there, with two cognitive agen= ts reconciling their ontologies conversationally and generating deterministic translators= , no common data model assumed.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">So, = the effective question may be: if agents can converge on semantics and lexi= con by themselves — no initially shared data model, implicit ontologi= es that may differ in various ways — what is most useful to standardize? My bet is categorical ontologies and their = terminologies — shared reference cores that ground, de-risk and speed= automated mediation without imposing rigidity. Tellingly, a hard field pro= blem cuts the same way: identity resolution — deciding that several systems=1B$B!G=1B(B identifiers denote the s= ame switch — is never solved by a rigid, complete data model (that on= ly breeds translation tables and exception logic); it is made tractable by = shared reference semantics, which align the attributes you match on and move resolution from the probabilistic regime toward the = deterministic one. That speaks to where standardization earns its keep, not= to dissolving entity resolution, which stays implementation. Of course, pu= rpose-optimized data models would remain useful references and examples, and KGs are important system tools = — but the high-leverage standard artifacts may be moving up the abstr= action stack, toward shared ontological cores rather than complete ontologi= es and fixed data structures.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Best= ,<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Chris<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Brad Peters <bradpeters=3D40nbnco.co= [email protected]> <br> <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 21, 2026 7:02 PM<br> <b>To:</b> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; nm= [email protected]; [email protected]<br> <b>Cc:</b> [email protected]<br> <b>Subject:</b> [nmrg] Re: [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IET= F OPS Transfer: Status & Exploring Collaboration Opportunities [Commerc= ial - Anyone]<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">Hi Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">Thank you for kicking off this discussion. The intersection of t= hese working groups aligns perfectly with the transition the industry is al= ready making: moving from AI-Enabled Network Operations to AI-Native Autonomous Operations.<o:p></o:p></span></= p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">To directly address your questions regarding how AI agents inter= act with Knowledge Graphs, Intent, and YANG data, I believe we must first d= istinguish between automation and autonomy.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">Currently, most industry efforts focus on AI-enabled operations,= essentially using AI to assist human operators within legacy functional pr= ocesses. This places a layer of automation on top of existing silos (event/fault, performance, security, accounting).= The fatal flaw here is that our current event/telemetry pipelines are fund= amentally designed for human consumption. We aggressively filter, aggregate= , and discard high-frequency signals because a human operator cannot process them. By doing so, we actively des= troy the granular context an AI needs.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">Creating a foundational model of the network and enriching it wi= th state-based and fast-moving contextual data like streaming telemetry, is= critical for providing AI agents with the information they need. We must shift from design-time hardcoding to ru= n-time enablement. Agents must be able to self-adapt while remaining ground= ed in factual reality, complete with the capability to safely test and eval= uate insights before execution.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">AI-Native management is about true autonomy: operating on the ne= twork with complete, unified context to produce an action with a high confi= dence interval. This is where the intersection of your mentioned topics becomes critical:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;margin-top:12.0pt;margin-botto= m:12.0pt;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo1"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos">Grounding the Agent:&nbs= p;LLMs are inherently probabilistic. To make deterministic, factual decisio= ns, they require a grounding point. Knowledge Graphs (KGs) provide this def= initive, end-to-end view of the network state.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <ul type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma= rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo2"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos">Run-Time vs. Design-Time= : Legacy automation embeds operational knowledge directly into the app= lication code, creating a massive barrier to change. A well-structured onto= logy allows us to separate the knowledge from the application. Agents can infer and reason over the graph to adapt = at run-time rather than waiting for design-time code changes.<o:p></o:p></s= pan></li></ul> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <ul type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma= rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo2"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos">Bridging the Temporal Ga= p: A Knowledge Graph provides the deterministic baseline of slow-movin= g inventory and topological state. Real-time mechanisms like YANG-Push and = gRPC provide the fast moving state and potentially temporal (TSDB) data that overlays onto that graph. Together, = they give the agent a complete slice of the operational environment to eval= uate and test proposed changes before execution. (Use of a context broker a= s per Telefonicia ETSI Common Information Model).<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">This architectural shift is actively gaining traction. Just toda= y, CommsDay (an Australian Communication focused publication) highlighted a= major Australian carrier rearchitecting their operations around a knowledge plane for the reasons above. I present= ed on this exact challenge at the Broadband Forum in March, specifically ad= dressing the TM Forum autonomy ladder and the "Knowledge Limit" t= hat is hit at Level 3 if we rely on event-driven automation rather than knowledge-driven autonomy.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">This links directly to, and is supported by, the previous IETF K= nowledge Graph team papers:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <ul type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma= rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos"><a href=3D"https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mackey-nmop-kg-for-netops/" target=3D"_blank">htt= ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mackey-nmop-kg-for-netops/</a><o:p></o:= p></span></li></ul> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <ul type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma= rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"> <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos"><a href=3D"https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tailhardat-nmop-incident-management-noria/" targe= t=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tailhardat-nmop-inciden= t-management-noria/</a><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">Regarding "running code" and practical intersections, = I have been developing a semantic compiler to translate IETF YANG models in= to OWL ontologies. The goal is to layer additional semantics on top of the base models to support AI agents, integrating RFC9= 315 Operational Intent with TM Forum ontologies (like the TIO). You can vie= w the current progress of bridging these domains here: <a href=3D"https://github.com/bradspau/Network-Ontology-Knowledge-Graphs" t= arget=3D"_blank"> https://github.com/bradspau/Network-Ontology-Knowledge-Graphs</a>.<o:p></o:= p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">I believe exploring this semantic bridge, how IETF data models m= ap to the ontologies required by systems for autonomous reasoning, would be= a highly valuable agenda item for our joint discussions.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">Ultimately, this technology change demands a rethink of who = ;is conducting the processes of the past. Are we still curating data for hu= man limitations, creating dashboards, and relying upon human interpretation? Or are agents and systems now the prima= ry receivers of data, responsible for producing tested operational insights= and recommendations?<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black">Will be interesting to see how this unfolds with those that are = current implementers/developping. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div id=3D"Signature"> <div> <p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-= family:Aptos;color:black">Cheers.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></= o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"background:white"><b><span style=3D"fo= nt-family:Aptos;color:black"><br> Brad </span></b><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co= lor:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center"> </div> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span= style=3D"color:black"> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Th= [email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">= [email protected]</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 21 June 2026 6:43 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:nm= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:nm= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mohamed.bou= [email protected]</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">m= [email protected]</a>><br> <b>Subject:</b> [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS = Transfer: Status & Exploring Collaboration Opportunities<o:p></o:p></sp= an></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p><b><span style=3D"color:red">EXTERNAL SENDER – Be cautious opening= Links and Attachments</span></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Dear NMRG, NMOP, OPSAWG and OPSAREA,</span><span sty= le=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">First of all many thanks to Brad, Dan, Christopher, = Alex, Qin and Bernard on their feedback. That=1B$B!G=1B(Bs a great start.</= span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">I have been following this thread closely </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS"= ,sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg= /nmop/gTPL1eBj5e3GMMt8qeUWmPP4oMg/"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://m= ailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmop/gTPL1eBj5e3GMMt8qeUWmPP4oMg/</span></a></= span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",s= ans-serif;color:#0E2841"> to understand wherever research and industry adoption comes closer together, = wherever there is interest for having a joint discussion and on what partic= ular topic.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">What I observed so far is that we all share that AI = in general and also AIOps research and adoption rate has dramatically incre= ased. So far everybody was very supportive on having a joint discussion. I would be interested to have more feedback, es= pecially also from those who think that it would not bring much benefit wit= h reasons why.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">From what I observed, having an initial discussion o= n the following existing working group document topics and how they interse= ct</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-seri= f">Network Digital Twin (</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family= :"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-network-digital-twin-arch"><span = style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-nm= rg-network-digital-twin-arch</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0= pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">)</span><span style=3D"= font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"= color:#0E2841;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Intent-Based Networking (</spa= n><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans= -serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-irtf-nmrg-ibn-usecases"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker= .ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-ibn-usecases</span></a></span><span styl= e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">)</s= pan><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"M= soNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4"><span style=3D"fo= nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">SIMAP (</sp= an><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra= ft-ietf-nmop-simap-concept"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-nmop-simap-concept</span></a></span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">)= </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class= =3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4"><span style= =3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">YANG-= Push to Message Broker integration (</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;= font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-nmop-yang-message-broker-in= tegration"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/h= tml/draft-ietf-nmop-yang-message-broker-integration</span></a></span><span = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">= )</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">and then having a discussions on the following raise= d questions perhaps:</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l8 level1 lfo5"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-seri= f">Which AI agents capabilities are suitable for network management?</span>= <span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNo= rmal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l8 level1 lfo5"><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">What is the imp= act of an AI network management process to YANG information, service, netwo= rk and data modelling?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p><= /span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l8 level= 1 lfo5"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS"= ;,sans-serif">Is MCP (</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q= uot;Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://en.wiki= pedia.org/wiki/Model_Context_Protocol"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https:= //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Context_Protocol</span></a></span><span style= =3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">) a suitable protocol between AI agents and IETF network management data sou= rces and system components?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></= o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l8 = level1 lfo5"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS= ",sans-serif">How does an AI agent interact with Network Digital Twin,= Intent-Based Networking, SIMAP, Knowledge Graphs and YANG data in Message Brokers?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></s= pan></li></ul> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">and move from there into some proposed work addressi= ng these areas. And last but not least maybe wrapping up around running cod= e. How experiments could facilitate and exchange between both working groups. Alex brought up that ANRW is once a year and = perhaps on one or two other occasion the two working group could continuous= ly actively exchange every year could be an interesting proposal.</span><sp= an style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-seri= f">Would that be a potential interesting agenda for everybody?</span><span = style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><span style=3D"font-size:10= .0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Did I miss anything o= r shall we focus more on a particular item?</span><span style=3D"font-famil= y:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2= 841;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q= uot;Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Any particular discussion structure you = would fancy?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li= ></ul> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">I also observed that authors authoring Knowledge Gra= ph documents have voiced wherever Knowledge Graph could be a topic of inter= est. I would love to see more discussions from other areas on this in particular how this intersects with AIOps and AI as= sisted network management topics. I saw also that ontologies have been ment= ioned, which I personally besides semantics believe plays an important role= with interacting with AI agents.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><= o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">As I am human, and not an AI agent, the observations= and suggestions might be unintentionally bias. So please feedback and comm= ent.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Best wishes</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos">= <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Thomas</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p><b>From:</b> Graf Thomas, SCS-INI-NET-VNC-E2E<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 1, 2026 7:16 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Nmop <<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:nm= [email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span>&= gt;; <span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span style= =3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span><br> <b>Cc:</b> Mohamed Boucadair <<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">moha= [email protected]</span></a></span>>; nmrg-chairs <<span style= =3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span style=3D"c= olor:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span>>; Nmop-chairs <<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:nmop-chair= [email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></= span>><br> <b>Subject:</b> FW: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status &= amp; Exploring Collaboration Opportunities<span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"= ><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Dear NMRG and NMOP,</span><span style=3D"font-family= :Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Med approached me wherever I am willing to facilitat= e with the support of both working group chairs a discussion between NMRG a= nd NMOP on common interests.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p><= /o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Looking at the list of current adopted documents</sp= an><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/nmrg/d= ocuments/"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker.ietf.org/group= /nmrg/documents/</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></= o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nmop/docu= ments/"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nmop/= documents/</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">but also looking at AIOps related proposals </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS"= ,sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/misc/b= lob/main/ai-submissions-ietf125.md"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://g= ithub.com/IETF-OPS-AD/misc/blob/main/ai-submissions-ietf125.md</span></a></= span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",s= ans-serif;color:#0E2841">, and the related past side meetings in the network management domain, I see= that the lifecycle on research and industry adoption of model and data dri= ven network management becomes accelerated and therefore research and indus= try adoption comes more and more closer together. Looking at the bluesheets of IETF 125, I see that we had = 107 participants for NMRG and 115 for NMOP and 36 participants were attendi= ng both NMRG and NMOP.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p><= /span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Or in other words, I personally believe that both wo= rking groups have a lot in common but also a also few things which makes th= em very unique and interesting to facilitate such a discussion.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></sp= an></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">I might be wrong and therefore would like to get som= e feedback from both mailing lists first:</span><span style=3D"font-family:= Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo7"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-seri= f">Would you agree that the lifecycle on research and industry adoption of = model and data driven network management becomes accelerated and therefore research and industry adoption comes more and mo= re closer together?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></sp= an></li></ul> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo8"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-seri= f">Is there an interest at the NMRG and NMOP communities to have an exchang= e on currently adopted and future proposed work to identify synergies and common interests in both working groups and disc= uss how they could be addressed better?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Ap= tos"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo9"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-seri= f">Do you have a particular topic, set of documents or interest already in = mind?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Best wishes</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos">= <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841">Thomas</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",san= s-serif;color:#0E2841"> </span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p><b>From:</b> <span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.bou= [email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]= om</span></a></span> <<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mail= to:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">mohamed.bouc= [email protected]</span></a></span>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 4, 2026 10:21 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Graf Thomas, SCS-INI-NET-VNC-E2E <<span style=3D"color:#= 467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#4= 67886">[email protected]</span></a></span>>; <span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span= style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span>; Nmop-chair= s <<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= ><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span>><b= r> <b>Cc:</b> ops-ads <<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto= :[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a= ></span>>; Dirk KUTSCHER <<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"ma= ilto:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</= span></a></span>><br> <b>Subject:</b> [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status &= Exploring Collaboration Opportunities<span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:= p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding= =3D"0" align=3D"left" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%"> <tbody> <tr> <td style=3D"background:#CF4A0C;padding:5.0pt 2.0pt 5.0pt 2.0pt"></td> <td width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%;background:#FFF8E5;padding:5.0pt 4= .0pt 5.0pt 12.0pt"> <p style=3D"mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-w= rap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizon= tal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly"> <b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;color:#222222">Be awar= e:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;color:#22222= 2"> This is an external email.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"= ><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos"> </span><span st= yle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">Hi all,</span><span = style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> </span><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">I had several discus= sions recently with many IETF participants about the relationship between s= ome work done in the IRTF and IETF. Specifically, I heard several questions= about the current mode of operation between NMRG and OPS and whether/how activity transfer is happening between the tw= o communities. I do see a value in bringing some of these items from hallwa= y discussion to our formal meetings :-)</span><span style=3D"font-family:Ap= tos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> </span><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">This can be the oppo= rtunity to explore between collaboration between the communities, and not r= ely only on the leadership level. See, for example, the following excerpt f= orm the NMRG Charter:</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> </span><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> =1B$B!H= =1B(BThe IETF Operations and Management Area Directors are members of the N= MRG<br> mailing list and invited to NMRG meetings in order to ensure f= ree flow of<br> information in both directions, and to avoid duplication of wo= rk with the<br> various IETF working groups.=1B$B!I=1B(B</span><span style=3D"= font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> </span><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">There are several WG= /RG pairs that may be considered for collaboration (NMRG/NMOP, MAPRG/IPPM, = etc.) but I think that it would be better to scope the discussion to a spec= ific area. I suggest to focus this time on NMRG/NMOP.</span><span style=3D"= font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> </span><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">Thomas kindly accept= ed to drive a discussion on this topic in the IETF#126 OPSAREA Session with= some proposals to bridge both communities. Thomas is also willing to colle= ct feedback and coordinate between the NMRG/NMOP Chairs, in particular.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p>= </span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> </span><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">@NMOP/@NMRG Chairs: = Would you be interested/willing to work with Thomas to consolidate some dis= cussion material? Thoughts and suggestions are welcome.</span><span style= =3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> </span><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">Thank you.</span><sp= an style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""> </span><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">Cheers,</span><span = style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">Med</span><span styl= e=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <pre>______________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con= fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege= d information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<= o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and= delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre> </div> <div> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_bc043c0d9b764f75a061d3c879d3ab00huaweicom_-- --===============5983977670818086899== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KT1BTLUFSRUEg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IC0tIG9wcy1hcmVhQGlldGYub3JnClRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlIHNlbmQgYW4g ZW1haWwgdG8gb3BzLWFyZWEtbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============5983977670818086899==--