[OPS-AREA]Re: [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@I ETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status & Exploring Collabor ation Opportunities [Commercial - Anyone]

Christopher Janz <[email protected]> Thu, 25 Jun 2026 11:55:49 +0000
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.ops,gmane.ietf.opsawg
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Hi Brad,
I agree with you on direction: AI-native autonomy and grounding probabilist=
ic agents in something factual. I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd like to pull a bit more on t=
he modeling thread.
Data models and knowledge graphs are both concrete commitments to an ontolo=
gy - one as schema, the other as schema populated with instances. So, it=1B=
$B!G=1B(Bs really a question of purpose: which representation is best suite=
d to a given objective. A data model commits meaning to a specific machine =
form, which buys determinism and verifiability at the cost of flexibility -=
 a YANG module is the right artifact where a stable, high-volume interface =
needs interop (config, telemetry subscriptions). A graph suits the cases wh=
ere the questions are cross-domain and not knowable in advance - correlatin=
g inventory, topology, alarms, telemetry, anomalies that no single system o=
wns.
Anomaly diagnosis I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd put on the graph side - mostly correlation=
 and traversal over heterogeneous, incompletely-anticipated evidence. But h=
ybrid: link the fast telemetry rather than ingest it. Which is your tempora=
l-gap design - graph for the slow-moving relationships, streamed models for=
 the fast state.
But one might ask: what is the best focal point for standardization going f=
orward? The emerging world is one in which systems are cognitive. In the pr=
e-cognitive world, data models - a stable basis for system-to-system commun=
ication - were the natural targets for standardization. Cognitive systems m=
ay not require that basis a priori. Your YANG=1B$B"*=1B(BOWL compiler is, i=
n effect, the first step - the =1B$B!H=1B(Blift=1B$B!I=1B(B portion - of a =
mediation: making a model=1B$B!G=1B(Bs implicit ontology explicit. The onto=
logy reconciliation draft I mentioned takes it from there, with two cogniti=
ve agents reconciling their ontologies conversationally and generating dete=
rministic translators, no common data model assumed.
So, the effective question may be: if agents can converge on semantics and =
lexicon by themselves - no initially shared data model, implicit ontologies=
 that may differ in various ways - what is most useful to standardize? My b=
et is categorical ontologies and their terminologies - shared reference cor=
es that ground, de-risk and speed automated mediation without imposing rigi=
dity. Tellingly, a hard field problem cuts the same way: identity resolutio=
n - deciding that several systems=1B$B!G=1B(B identifiers denote the same s=
witch - is never solved by a rigid, complete data model (that only breeds t=
ranslation tables and exception logic); it is made tractable by shared refe=
rence semantics, which align the attributes you match on and move resolutio=
n from the probabilistic regime toward the deterministic one. That speaks t=
o where standardization earns its keep, not to dissolving entity resolution=
, which stays implementation. Of course, purpose-optimized data models woul=
d remain useful references and examples, and KGs are important system tools=
 - but the high-leverage standard artifacts may be moving up the abstractio=
n stack, toward shared ontological cores rather than complete ontologies an=
d fixed data structures.
Best,
Chris

From: Brad Peters <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2026 7:02 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; nmop@ietf=
.org; [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: [nmrg] Re: [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS T=
ransfer: Status & Exploring Collaboration Opportunities [Commercial - Anyon=
e]

Hi Thomas,
Thank you for kicking off this discussion. The intersection of these workin=
g groups aligns perfectly with the transition the industry is already makin=
g: moving from AI-Enabled Network Operations to AI-Native Autonomous Operat=
ions.
To directly address your questions regarding how AI agents interact with Kn=
owledge Graphs, Intent, and YANG data, I believe we must first distinguish =
between automation and autonomy.
Currently, most industry efforts focus on AI-enabled operations, essentiall=
y using AI to assist human operators within legacy functional processes. Th=
is places a layer of automation on top of existing silos (event/fault, perf=
ormance, security, accounting). The fatal flaw here is that our current eve=
nt/telemetry pipelines are fundamentally designed for human consumption. We=
 aggressively filter, aggregate, and discard high-frequency signals because=
 a human operator cannot process them. By doing so, we actively destroy the=
 granular context an AI needs.
Creating a foundational model of the network and enriching it with state-ba=
sed and fast-moving contextual data like streaming telemetry, is critical f=
or providing AI agents with the information they need. We must shift from d=
esign-time hardcoding to run-time enablement. Agents must be able to self-a=
dapt while remaining grounded in factual reality, complete with the capabil=
ity to safely test and evaluate insights before execution.
AI-Native management is about true autonomy: operating on the network with =
complete, unified context to produce an action with a high confidence inter=
val. This is where the intersection of your mentioned topics becomes critic=
al:

  *   Grounding the Agent: LLMs are inherently probabilistic. To make deter=
ministic, factual decisions, they require a grounding point. Knowledge Grap=
hs (KGs) provide this definitive, end-to-end view of the network state.

  *   Run-Time vs. Design-Time: Legacy automation embeds operational knowle=
dge directly into the application code, creating a massive barrier to chang=
e. A well-structured ontology allows us to separate the knowledge from the =
application. Agents can infer and reason over the graph to adapt at run-tim=
e rather than waiting for design-time code changes.

  *   Bridging the Temporal Gap: A Knowledge Graph provides the determinist=
ic baseline of slow-moving inventory and topological state. Real-time mecha=
nisms like YANG-Push and gRPC provide the fast moving state and potentially=
 temporal (TSDB) data that overlays onto that graph. Together, they give th=
e agent a complete slice of the operational environment to evaluate and tes=
t proposed changes before execution. (Use of a context broker as per Telefo=
nicia ETSI Common Information Model).
This architectural shift is actively gaining traction. Just today, CommsDay=
 (an Australian Communication focused publication) highlighted a major Aust=
ralian carrier rearchitecting their operations around a knowledge plane for=
 the reasons above. I presented on this exact challenge at the Broadband Fo=
rum in March, specifically addressing the TM Forum autonomy ladder and the =
"Knowledge Limit" that is hit at Level 3 if we rely on event-driven automat=
ion rather than knowledge-driven autonomy.
This links directly to, and is supported by, the previous IETF Knowledge Gr=
aph team papers:

  *   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mackey-nmop-kg-for-netops/

  *   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tailhardat-nmop-incident-manag=
ement-noria/
Regarding "running code" and practical intersections, I have been developin=
g a semantic compiler to translate IETF YANG models into OWL ontologies. Th=
e goal is to layer additional semantics on top of the base models to suppor=
t AI agents, integrating RFC9315 Operational Intent with TM Forum ontologie=
s (like the TIO). You can view the current progress of bridging these domai=
ns here: https://github.com/bradspau/Network-Ontology-Knowledge-Graphs.
I believe exploring this semantic bridge, how IETF data models map to the o=
ntologies required by systems for autonomous reasoning, would be a highly v=
aluable agenda item for our joint discussions.
Ultimately, this technology change demands a rethink of who is conducting t=
he processes of the past. Are we still curating data for human limitations,=
 creating dashboards, and relying upon human interpretation? Or are agents =
and systems now the primary receivers of data, responsible for producing te=
sted operational insights and recommendations?
Will be interesting to see how this unfolds with those that are current imp=
lementers/developping.

Cheers.

Brad

________________________________
From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <Thomas.Gra=
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2026 6:43 PM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:o=
[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]=
g<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <nmop@ietf.=
org<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <nmrg@irtf.=
org<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <moha=
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: St=
atus & Exploring Collaboration Opportunities


EXTERNAL SENDER - Be cautious opening Links and Attachments

Dear NMRG, NMOP, OPSAWG and OPSAREA,



First of all many thanks to Brad, Dan, Christopher, Alex, Qin and Bernard o=
n their feedback. That=1B$B!G=1B(Bs a great start.



I have been following this thread closely https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch=
/msg/nmop/gTPL1eBj5e3GMMt8qeUWmPP4oMg/ to understand wherever research and =
industry adoption comes closer together, wherever there is interest for hav=
ing a joint discussion and on what particular topic.



What I observed so far is that we all share that AI in general and also AIO=
ps research and adoption rate has dramatically increased. So far everybody =
was very supportive on having a joint discussion. I would be interested to =
have more feedback, especially also from those who think that it would not =
bring much benefit with reasons why.



>From what I observed, having an initial discussion on the following existin=
g working group document topics and how they intersect



  *   Network Digital Twin (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irt=
f-nmrg-network-digital-twin-arch)
  *   Intent-Based Networking (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-=
irtf-nmrg-ibn-usecases)
  *   SIMAP (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-nmop-simap-co=
ncept)
  *   YANG-Push to Message Broker integration (https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-nmop-yang-message-broker-integration)



and then having a discussions on the following raised questions perhaps:



  *   Which AI agents capabilities are suitable for network management?
  *   What is the impact of an AI network management process to YANG inform=
ation, service, network and data modelling?
  *   Is MCP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Context_Protocol) a suita=
ble protocol between AI agents and IETF network management data sources and=
 system components?
  *   How does an AI agent interact with Network Digital Twin, Intent-Based=
 Networking, SIMAP, Knowledge Graphs and YANG data in Message Brokers?



and move from there into some proposed work addressing these areas. And las=
t but not least maybe wrapping up around running code. How experiments coul=
d facilitate and exchange between both working groups. Alex brought up that=
 ANRW is once a year and perhaps on one or two other occasion the two worki=
ng group could continuously actively exchange every year could be an intere=
sting proposal.



  *   Would that be a potential interesting agenda for everybody?
  *   Did I miss anything or shall we focus more on a particular item?
  *   Any particular discussion structure you would fancy?



I also observed that authors authoring Knowledge Graph documents have voice=
d wherever Knowledge Graph could be a topic of interest. I would love to se=
e more discussions from other areas on this in particular how this intersec=
ts with AIOps and AI assisted network management topics. I saw also that on=
tologies have been mentioned, which I personally besides semantics believe =
plays an important role with interacting with AI agents.



As I am human, and not an AI agent, the observations and suggestions might =
be unintentionally bias. So please feedback and comment.



Best wishes

Thomas



From: Graf Thomas, SCS-INI-NET-VNC-E2E
Sent: Monday, June 1, 2026 7:16 AM
To: Nmop <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:nmrg@i=
rtf.org>
Cc: Mohamed Boucadair <[email protected]<mailto:mohamed.boucadai=
[email protected]>>; nmrg-chairs <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]=
rg>>; Nmop-chairs <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: FW: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status & Exploring C=
ollaboration Opportunities



Dear NMRG and NMOP,



Med approached me wherever I am willing to facilitate with the support of b=
oth working group chairs a discussion between NMRG and NMOP on common inter=
ests.



Looking at the list of current adopted documents



https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/nmrg/documents/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nmop/documents/



but also looking at AIOps related proposals https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/=
misc/blob/main/ai-submissions-ietf125.md, and the related past side meeting=
s in the network management domain, I see that the lifecycle on research an=
d industry adoption of model and data driven network management becomes acc=
elerated and therefore research and industry adoption comes more and more c=
loser together. Looking at the bluesheets of IETF 125, I see that we had 10=
7 participants for NMRG and 115 for NMOP and 36 participants were attending=
 both NMRG and NMOP.



Or in other words, I personally believe that both working groups have a lot=
 in common but also a also few things which makes them very unique and inte=
resting to facilitate such a discussion.



I might be wrong and therefore would like to get some feedback from both ma=
iling lists first:



  *   Would you agree that the lifecycle on research and industry adoption =
of model and data driven network management becomes accelerated and therefo=
re research and industry adoption comes more and more closer together?



  *   Is there an interest at the NMRG and NMOP communities to have an exch=
ange on currently adopted and future proposed work to identify synergies an=
d common interests in both working groups and discuss how they could be add=
ressed better?



  *   Do you have a particular topic, set of documents or interest already =
in mind?



Best wishes

Thomas



From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <mo=
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2026 10:21 AM
To: Graf Thomas, SCS-INI-NET-VNC-E2E <[email protected]<mailto:Thoma=
[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; N=
mop-chairs <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: ops-ads <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Dirk KUTSCHER <iet=
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status & Exploring Colla=
boration Opportunities




Be aware: This is an external email.




Hi all,



I had several discussions recently with many IETF participants about the re=
lationship between some work done in the IRTF and IETF. Specifically, I hea=
rd several questions about the current mode of operation between NMRG and O=
PS and whether/how activity transfer is happening between the two communiti=
es. I do see a value in bringing some of these items from hallway discussio=
n to our formal meetings :-)



This can be the opportunity to explore between collaboration between the co=
mmunities, and not rely only on the leadership level. See, for example, the=
 following excerpt form the NMRG Charter:



   =1B$B!H=1B(BThe IETF Operations and Management Area Directors are member=
s of the NMRG
   mailing list and invited to NMRG meetings in order to ensure free flow o=
f
   information in both directions, and to avoid duplication of work with th=
e
   various IETF working groups.=1B$B!I=1B(B



There are several WG/RG pairs that may be considered for collaboration (NMR=
G/NMOP, MAPRG/IPPM, etc.) but I think that it would be better to scope the =
discussion to a specific area. I suggest to focus this time on NMRG/NMOP.



Thomas kindly accepted to drive a discussion on this topic in the IETF#126 =
OPSAREA Session with some proposals to bridge both communities. Thomas is a=
lso willing to collect feedback and coordinate between the NMRG/NMOP Chairs=
, in particular.



@NMOP/@NMRG Chairs: Would you be interested/willing to work with Thomas to =
consolidate some discussion material? Thoughts and suggestions are welcome.



Thank you.



Cheers,

Med

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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:brea=
k-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Hi B=
rad,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">I ag=
ree with you on direction: AI-native autonomy and grounding probabilistic a=
gents in something factual. I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd like to pull a bit more on the m=
odeling thread.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Data=
 models and knowledge graphs are both concrete commitments to an ontology &=
#8212; one as schema, the other as schema populated with instances. So, it=
=1B$B!G=1B(Bs really a question of purpose: which representation
 is best suited to a given objective. A data model commits meaning to a spe=
cific machine form, which buys determinism and verifiability at the cost of=
 flexibility &#8212; a YANG module is the right artifact where a stable, hi=
gh-volume interface needs interop (config,
 telemetry subscriptions). A graph suits the cases where the questions are =
cross-domain and not knowable in advance &#8212; correlating inventory, top=
ology, alarms, telemetry, anomalies that no single system owns.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Anom=
aly diagnosis I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd put on the graph side &#8212; mostly correlati=
on and traversal over heterogeneous, incompletely-anticipated evidence. But=
 hybrid: link the fast telemetry rather than ingest it.
 Which is your temporal-gap design &#8212; graph for the slow-moving relati=
onships, streamed models for the fast state.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">But =
one might ask: what is the best focal point for standardization going forwa=
rd? The emerging world is one in which systems are cognitive. In the pre-co=
gnitive world, data models &#8212; a stable
 basis for system-to-system communication &#8212; were the natural targets =
for standardization. Cognitive systems may not require that basis
<i>a priori</i>. Your YANG=1B$B"*=1B(BOWL compiler is, in effect, the first=
 step &#8212; the =1B$B!H=1B(Blift=1B$B!I=1B(B portion &#8212; of a mediati=
on: making a model=1B$B!G=1B(Bs implicit ontology explicit. The ontology re=
conciliation draft I mentioned takes it from there, with two cognitive agen=
ts reconciling
 their ontologies conversationally and generating deterministic translators=
, no common data model assumed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">So, =
the effective question may be: if agents can converge on semantics and lexi=
con by themselves &#8212; no initially shared data model, implicit ontologi=
es that may differ in various ways &#8212; what
 is most useful to standardize? My bet is categorical ontologies and their =
terminologies &#8212; shared reference cores that ground, de-risk and speed=
 automated mediation without imposing rigidity. Tellingly, a hard field pro=
blem cuts the same way: identity resolution
 &#8212; deciding that several systems=1B$B!G=1B(B identifiers denote the s=
ame switch &#8212; is never solved by a rigid, complete data model (that on=
ly breeds translation tables and exception logic); it is made tractable by =
shared reference semantics, which align the attributes
 you match on and move resolution from the probabilistic regime toward the =
deterministic one. That speaks to where standardization earns its keep, not=
 to dissolving entity resolution, which stays implementation. Of course, pu=
rpose-optimized data models would
 remain useful references and examples, and KGs are important system tools =
&#8212; but the high-leverage standard artifacts may be moving up the abstr=
action stack, toward shared ontological cores rather than complete ontologi=
es and fixed data structures.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Best=
,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Chris<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Brad Peters &lt;bradpeters=3D40nbnco.co=
[email protected]&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 21, 2026 7:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; nm=
[email protected]; [email protected]<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email protected]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [nmrg] Re: [External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IET=
F OPS Transfer: Status &amp; Exploring Collaboration Opportunities [Commerc=
ial - Anyone]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">Hi Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">Thank you for kicking off this discussion. The intersection of t=
hese working groups aligns perfectly with the transition the industry is al=
ready making: moving from AI-Enabled
 Network Operations to AI-Native Autonomous Operations.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">To directly address your questions regarding how AI agents inter=
act with Knowledge Graphs, Intent, and YANG data, I believe we must first d=
istinguish between automation and autonomy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">Currently, most industry efforts focus on AI-enabled operations,=
 essentially using AI to assist human operators within legacy functional pr=
ocesses. This places a layer of automation
 on top of existing silos (event/fault, performance, security, accounting).=
 The fatal flaw here is that our current event/telemetry pipelines are fund=
amentally designed for human consumption. We aggressively filter, aggregate=
, and discard high-frequency signals
 because a human operator cannot process them. By doing so, we actively des=
troy the granular context an AI needs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">Creating a foundational model of the network and enriching it wi=
th state-based and fast-moving contextual data like streaming telemetry, is=
 critical for providing AI agents with
 the information they need. We must shift from design-time hardcoding to ru=
n-time enablement. Agents must be able to self-adapt while remaining ground=
ed in factual reality, complete with the capability to safely test and eval=
uate insights before execution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">AI-Native management is about true autonomy: operating on the ne=
twork with complete, unified context to produce an action with a high confi=
dence interval. This is where the intersection
 of your mentioned topics becomes critical:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;margin-top:12.0pt;margin-botto=
m:12.0pt;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos">Grounding the Agent:&nbs=
p;LLMs are inherently probabilistic. To make deterministic, factual decisio=
ns, they require a grounding point. Knowledge Graphs (KGs) provide this def=
initive, end-to-end view of the network
 state.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos">Run-Time vs. Design-Time=
:&nbsp;Legacy automation embeds operational knowledge directly into the app=
lication code, creating a massive barrier to change. A well-structured onto=
logy allows us to separate the knowledge
 from the application. Agents can infer and reason over the graph to adapt =
at run-time rather than waiting for design-time code changes.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></li></ul>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos">Bridging the Temporal Ga=
p:&nbsp;A Knowledge Graph provides the deterministic baseline of slow-movin=
g inventory and topological state. Real-time mechanisms like YANG-Push and =
gRPC provide the fast moving state and
 potentially temporal (TSDB) data that overlays onto that graph. Together, =
they give the agent a complete slice of the operational environment to eval=
uate and test proposed changes before execution. (Use of a context broker a=
s per Telefonicia ETSI Common Information
 Model).<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">This architectural shift is actively gaining traction. Just toda=
y, CommsDay (an Australian Communication focused publication) highlighted a=
 major Australian carrier rearchitecting
 their operations around a knowledge plane for the reasons above. I present=
ed on this exact challenge at the Broadband Forum in March, specifically ad=
dressing the TM Forum autonomy ladder and the &quot;Knowledge Limit&quot; t=
hat is hit at Level 3 if we rely on event-driven
 automation rather than knowledge-driven autonomy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">This links directly to, and is supported by, the previous IETF K=
nowledge Graph team papers:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos"><a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mackey-nmop-kg-for-netops/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mackey-nmop-kg-for-netops/</a><o:p></o:=
p></span></li></ul>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos"><a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tailhardat-nmop-incident-management-noria/" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tailhardat-nmop-inciden=
t-management-noria/</a><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">Regarding &quot;running code&quot; and practical intersections, =
I have been developing a semantic compiler to translate IETF YANG models in=
to OWL ontologies. The goal is to layer additional
 semantics on top of the base models to support AI agents, integrating RFC9=
315 Operational Intent with TM Forum ontologies (like the TIO). You can vie=
w the current progress of bridging these domains here:
<a href=3D"https://github.com/bradspau/Network-Ontology-Knowledge-Graphs" t=
arget=3D"_blank">
https://github.com/bradspau/Network-Ontology-Knowledge-Graphs</a>.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">I believe exploring this semantic bridge, how IETF data models m=
ap to the ontologies required by systems for autonomous reasoning, would be=
 a highly valuable agenda item for our
 joint discussions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">Ultimately, this technology change demands a rethink of who&nbsp=
;is conducting the processes of the past. Are we still curating data for hu=
man limitations, creating dashboards, and
 relying upon human interpretation? Or are agents and systems now the prima=
ry receivers of data, responsible for producing tested operational insights=
 and recommendations?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black">Will be interesting to see how this unfolds with those that are =
current implementers/developping.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"Signature">
<div>
<p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-=
family:Aptos;color:black">Cheers.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"elementtoproof" style=3D"background:white"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Aptos;color:black"><br>
Brad&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;co=
lor:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Th=
[email protected]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">=
[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Sunday, 21 June 2026 6:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nm=
[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nm=
[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mohamed.bou=
[email protected]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">m=
[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[External] [NMOP] Re: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS =
Transfer: Status &amp; Exploring Collaboration Opportunities<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><b><span style=3D"color:red">EXTERNAL SENDER &#8211; Be cautious opening=
 Links and Attachments</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Dear NMRG, NMOP, OPSAWG and OPSAREA,</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">First of all many thanks to Brad, Dan, Christopher, =
Alex, Qin and Bernard on their feedback. That=1B$B!G=1B(Bs a great start.</=
span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">I have been following this thread closely
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg=
/nmop/gTPL1eBj5e3GMMt8qeUWmPP4oMg/"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://m=
ailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmop/gTPL1eBj5e3GMMt8qeUWmPP4oMg/</span></a></=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;to
 understand wherever research and industry adoption comes closer together, =
wherever there is interest for having a joint discussion and on what partic=
ular topic.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">What I observed so far is that we all share that AI =
in general and also AIOps research and adoption rate has dramatically incre=
ased. So far everybody was very supportive on
 having a joint discussion. I would be interested to have more feedback, es=
pecially also from those who think that it would not bring much benefit wit=
h reasons why.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">From what I observed, having an initial discussion o=
n the following existing working group document topics and how they interse=
ct</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-seri=
f">Network Digital Twin (</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-network-digital-twin-arch"><span =
style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-nm=
rg-network-digital-twin-arch</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">)</span><span style=3D"=
font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
color:#0E2841;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">Intent-Based Networking (</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf=
t-irtf-nmrg-ibn-usecases"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker=
.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-ibn-usecases</span></a></span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">)</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">SIMAP (</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra=
ft-ietf-nmop-simap-concept"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-nmop-simap-concept</span></a></span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">)=
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">YANG-=
Push to Message Broker integration (</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-nmop-yang-message-broker-in=
tegration"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/h=
tml/draft-ietf-nmop-yang-message-broker-integration</span></a></span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">=
)</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">and then having a discussions on the following raise=
d questions perhaps:</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l8 level1 lfo5"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-seri=
f">Which AI agents capabilities are suitable for network management?</span>=
<span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l8 level1 lfo5"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">What is the imp=
act of an AI network management process to YANG information, service, netwo=
rk and data modelling?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l8 level=
1 lfo5"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot=
;,sans-serif">Is MCP (</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://en.wiki=
pedia.org/wiki/Model_Context_Protocol"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https:=
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Context_Protocol</span></a></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">)
 a suitable protocol between AI agents and IETF network management data sou=
rces and system components?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></=
o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l8 =
level1 lfo5"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS=
&quot;,sans-serif">How does an AI agent interact with Network Digital Twin,=
 Intent-Based Networking, SIMAP, Knowledge Graphs and YANG data
 in Message Brokers?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></li></ul>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">and move from there into some proposed work addressi=
ng these areas. And last but not least maybe wrapping up around running cod=
e. How experiments could facilitate and exchange
 between both working groups. Alex brought up that ANRW is once a year and =
perhaps on one or two other occasion the two working group could continuous=
ly actively exchange every year could be an interesting proposal.</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-seri=
f">Would that be a potential interesting agenda for everybody?</span><span =
style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">Did I miss anything o=
r shall we focus more on a particular item?</span><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2=
841;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-serif">Any particular discussion structure you =
would fancy?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li=
></ul>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">I also observed that authors authoring Knowledge Gra=
ph documents have voiced wherever Knowledge Graph could be a topic of inter=
est. I would love to see more discussions from
 other areas on this in particular how this intersects with AIOps and AI as=
sisted network management topics. I saw also that ontologies have been ment=
ioned, which I personally besides semantics believe plays an important role=
 with interacting with AI agents.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">As I am human, and not an AI agent, the observations=
 and suggestions might be unintentionally bias. So please feedback and comm=
ent.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Best wishes</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Thomas</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p><b>From:</b>&nbsp;Graf Thomas, SCS-INI-NET-VNC-E2E<br>
<b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Monday, June 1, 2026 7:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b>&nbsp;Nmop &lt;<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:nm=
[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span>&=
gt;;
<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span style=
=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span><br>
<b>Cc:</b>&nbsp;Mohamed Boucadair &lt;<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">moha=
[email protected]</span></a></span>&gt;; nmrg-chairs &lt;<span style=
=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span style=3D"c=
olor:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span>&gt;;
 Nmop-chairs &lt;<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:nmop-chair=
[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></=
span>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;FW: [OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status &=
amp; Exploring Collaboration Opportunities<span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Dear NMRG and NMOP,</span><span style=3D"font-family=
:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Med approached me wherever I am willing to facilitat=
e with the support of both working group chairs a discussion between NMRG a=
nd NMOP on common interests.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Looking at the list of current adopted documents</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/nmrg/d=
ocuments/"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker.ietf.org/group=
/nmrg/documents/</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nmop/docu=
ments/"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nmop/=
documents/</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">but also looking at AIOps related proposals
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href=3D"https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/misc/b=
lob/main/ai-submissions-ietf125.md"><span style=3D"color:#467886">https://g=
ithub.com/IETF-OPS-AD/misc/blob/main/ai-submissions-ietf125.md</span></a></=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:#0E2841">,
 and the related past side meetings in the network management domain, I see=
 that the lifecycle on research and industry adoption of model and data dri=
ven network management becomes accelerated and therefore research and indus=
try adoption comes more and more
 closer together. Looking at the bluesheets of IETF 125, I see that we had =
107 participants for NMRG and 115 for NMOP and 36 participants were attendi=
ng both NMRG and NMOP.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Or in other words, I personally believe that both wo=
rking groups have a lot in common but also a also few things which makes th=
em very unique and interesting to facilitate
 such a discussion.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">I might be wrong and therefore would like to get som=
e feedback from both mailing lists first:</span><span style=3D"font-family:=
Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo7"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-seri=
f">Would you agree that the lifecycle on research and industry adoption of =
model and data driven network management becomes
 accelerated and therefore research and industry adoption comes more and mo=
re closer together?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></li></ul>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo8"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-seri=
f">Is there an interest at the NMRG and NMOP communities to have an exchang=
e on currently adopted and future proposed work
 to identify synergies and common interests in both working groups and disc=
uss how they could be addressed better?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Ap=
tos"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#0E2841;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo9"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,sans-seri=
f">Do you have a particular topic, set of documents or interest already in =
mind?</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Best wishes</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">Thomas</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#0E2841">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p><b>From:</b> <span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.bou=
[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]=
om</span></a></span>&nbsp;&lt;<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mail=
to:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">mohamed.bouc=
[email protected]</span></a></span>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Monday, May 4, 2026 10:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b>&nbsp;Graf Thomas, SCS-INI-NET-VNC-E2E &lt;<span style=3D"color:#=
467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#4=
67886">[email protected]</span></a></span>&gt;;
<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><span=
 style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span>; Nmop-chair=
s &lt;<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"=
><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a></span>&gt;<b=
r>
<b>Cc:</b>&nbsp;ops-ads &lt;<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"mailto=
:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</span></a=
></span>&gt;; Dirk KUTSCHER &lt;<span style=3D"color:#467886"><a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email protected]"><span style=3D"color:#467886">[email protected]</=
span></a></span>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[OPSAREA@IETF126] IRTF/IETF OPS Transfer: Status &amp;=
 Exploring Collaboration Opportunities<span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" align=3D"left" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"background:#CF4A0C;padding:5.0pt 2.0pt 5.0pt 2.0pt"></td>
<td width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%;background:#FFF8E5;padding:5.0pt 4=
.0pt 5.0pt 12.0pt">
<p style=3D"mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-w=
rap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizon=
tal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;color:#222222">Be awar=
e:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos;color:#22222=
2">&nbsp;This is an external email.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aptos">&nbsp;</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Hi all,</span><span =
style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I had several discus=
sions recently with many IETF participants about the relationship between s=
ome work done in the IRTF and IETF. Specifically, I heard several questions=
 about the current mode of operation between
 NMRG and OPS and whether/how activity transfer is happening between the tw=
o communities. I do see a value in bringing some of these items from hallwa=
y discussion to our formal meetings :-)</span><span style=3D"font-family:Ap=
tos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">This can be the oppo=
rtunity to explore between collaboration between the communities, and not r=
ely only on the leadership level. See, for example, the following excerpt f=
orm the NMRG Charter:</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =1B$B!H=
=1B(BThe IETF Operations and Management Area Directors are members of the N=
MRG<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; mailing list and invited to NMRG meetings in order to ensure f=
ree flow of<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; information in both directions, and to avoid duplication of wo=
rk with the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; various IETF working groups.=1B$B!I=1B(B</span><span style=3D"=
font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">There are several WG=
/RG pairs that may be considered for collaboration (NMRG/NMOP, MAPRG/IPPM, =
etc.) but I think that it would be better to scope the discussion to a spec=
ific area. I suggest to focus this time on NMRG/NMOP.</span><span style=3D"=
font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thomas kindly accept=
ed to drive a discussion on this topic in the IETF#126 OPSAREA Session with=
 some proposals to bridge both communities. Thomas is also willing to colle=
ct feedback and coordinate between the NMRG/NMOP
 Chairs, in particular.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">@NMOP/@NMRG Chairs: =
Would you be interested/willing to work with Thomas to consolidate some dis=
cussion material? Thoughts and suggestions are welcome.</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thank you.</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,</span><span =
style=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:Aptos"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div>
<pre>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<div>
<pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<div>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<div>
<pre>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
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