Re: RE: AD request / L2 Triggers Chapter Statement

Hi,


> I have to respond to this:
> >
> > My claim, is that IP IS NOT DONE FOR WIRELESS.  Its only
> > just begun.  If you shoot me down here in this BOF, other more powerful
> > wireless Jedi will follow me!!! :-)
> >
> >
> Sorry - WRONG.
> I would suggest you people study what the "packet radio community" has
> implemented many years ago. 

OK.  I have been a ham for 27 years (WB9SML, now N9FCW).  I have used
AX.25 and TCP over packet radio for almost as many.  I am great admirer
of Phil K who frequencts this list.  Nevertheless, this "packet radio" stuff was
great back in the early 80s!  Today's radios are DSSS with huge bandwidths
and incredibly  capabilities that are VERY poorly harnessed by the IP community
and mostly completely wasted.  

> And this has significantly influenced the design
> of the IP and TCP protocols when the Old Arpanet NCP had to be redesigned
> for a more heterogeneous and wireless environment!

Yes, and it worked fine for non-realtime, non-commercial, best effort traffic on
a relatively lightly loaded and a much smaller global Internet.  The bu$iness world
wants more.  MUCH more.  Mobility is a "chargeable" service.  Why aren't
mobile Internet service providers popping up?  Because its hard too do.  Why is
it hard to do?  Because the IETF has become pompous and monolithic and 
slow to change.  IP IS NOT PERFECT!  IP over everthing inspired a huge
growth spurt along with the WWW.  Instead of standing around in awe at the
marvelous Internet, can we get on with improving it finally????

> Maybe instead of relying on a connection-oriented subnetwork and dealing
> with "handover" problems it might be better tu use a basic datagram
> subnetwork (remember - IP does not necessarily require a "link" layer but
> assumes what used to be called a "local network") and put the complexity of
> signaling and end-to-end aspects on a higher layer.

Jeesh, how can a high layer work blindly!  You are making my point for me!
> 
> IP delegated these tasks to TCP - but TCP suffers from the fact that it does
> not get any information what happened inside the network, so it has to

EXACTLY!!!!

> implement artefacts such as slow start and a separate congestion window in
> order to do a good job. In my opinion this is the real problem we are facing
> and the question remaisn whether this is a "protocol" issue or an OS issue;
> in this respect I like the ISDN Refernce model which has separate "planes"
> for these aspects.

...and these issues with TCP are complained about bitterly in the various
transport WGs.  Isn't the solution becoming obvious???

> 
> TCP has never been designed as a real-time end-end protocol; maybe the
> wireless people ought to define such a beast on top of IP and use the packet
> radio techniques for the wireless network instead.

We are in the process, but we keep running into people that want to impede
our progress!! :-)  The first step in building a closed loop control system for
handover, mobility, routing, and QoS is the feedback loop, i.e. L2 TRIGGERS!!!

quod erat demonstrandum


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