[pim] Re: [Bier] Invitation to the "AI Network Multica st" side meeting atIETF 126
Yisong Liu <[email protected]> Fri, 17 Jul 2026 16:20:56 +0800 (CST)
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--===============4483345094308368355== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_38836_1534760263.1784276456288" ------=_Part_38836_1534760263.1784276456288 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tony, Thank you for your kind attention.=20 We'll do our best to record the session and share the recording and materia= ls on the mailing list afterward. Your feedback and suggestions would be ve= ry welcome. Best Regards Yisong =20 ----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E6=96=87---- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9ATony Przygienda <[email protected]> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9AYisong Liu <[email protected]> =E6=8A=84=E3=80=80=E9=80=81: mcast4ai <[email protected]>,rtgwg <rtgwg@ie= tf.org>,pim <[email protected]>,bier <[email protected]>,mboned <[email protected]>= ,MikeMcBride <[email protected]>,YisongLiu <[email protected]> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A2026-07-17 15:44:51 =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9ARe: [Bier] Invitation to the "AI Network Multica= st" side meeting atIETF 126 interesting enough, record pls if you can. overlaps with mpls so not a very= good slot to attend in person=20 thanks=20 -- tony=20 On Fri, Jul 17, 2026 at 9:36AM Yisong Liu <[email protected]> wrote= : Dear All, We will organize a side meeting of AI Network Multicast on Tuesday, July 21= , 9:15-10:45 (Europe/Vienna), in room Grand Klimt Hall 3. If you are intere= sted in AIDC or network layer multicast, please come to the side meeting to= discuss. If you are remote participant, please access the meeting via the = link: https://ietf.webex.com/meet/sidemeetings2 =20 This side meeting builds on previous side meeting discussions and will dive= deeper into AI-specific multicast use cases and requirements, including Mo= E token dispatch, while conducting preliminary technical analyses of potent= ial solutions such as BIER enhancements and new protocol designs, with emph= asis on reliability, scalability, and quantitative performance evaluation t= o guide future standardization. =20 Please check the initial agenda of the side meeting in the following:=20 0. Welcome & Review Chairs=20 1. Multicast Problem Statement for AIDC ( Junye Zhang, Remote, China Mobil= e) =20 Abstract: Multicast is a promising technique for enhancing the efficiency o= f point-to-multipoint data transmission during LLM training and inference i= n AI Data Centers (AIDCs). However, AIDCs demand bidirectional interaction,= lossless reliability, microsecond scale dynamics, sparse groups, and simpl= e control/data planes. This talk will give a brief problem statement of mul= ticast in AIDCs. 2.Can LLMs Reason Structurally? Benchmarking via the lens of Data Structure= s, with possible benefit from Multicast ( Yingxi Li, Remote, Stanford Unive= rsity)=20 Abstract: As large language models (LLMs) are increasingly deployed on comp= lex tasks that demand multi-step decision-making, evaluating their algorith= mic reasoning capabilities becomes critical. This talk introduces DSR-Bench= , a diagnostic benchmark grounded in data structures, designed to assess st= ructural reasoning=E2=80=94the ability to perceive and manipulate relationa= l patterns such as order, hierarchy, and connectivity, including the benchm= ark design, the evaluation methodology, and key empirical findings. The tal= k concludes with a brief discussion of potential implications for AI data-c= enter networks, raising the question of whether efficient multicast communi= cation could benefit long-context inference, inference-time search, and dis= tributed model execution. 3.In-Network Computing on Switches (IFEC): Remodeling Multicast and Acceler= ating Communication for AI Clusters (Changwang Lin, On-site, Alibaba & H3C= ) Abstract: Describe an innovative collaborative computing paradigm named IFE= C (In Fabric Extended-Computation). Its core objective is to address the wo= rsening cross-xPU communication bottlenecks in large-scale AI training and = inference, driven by rising model parallelism and the widespread adoption o= f architectures such as MoE. 4. Multicast in Scale-Up (Haibo Wang, On-site, Huawei) Abstract: With the rapid development of AI services, optimizing AI cluster = performance has become increasingly important. Notably, some AI service sce= narios may exhibit multicast-like communication patterns (e.g., MOE dispatc= h).Traditional network multicast relies on single-direction forwarding, whi= ch conflicts with key AI service requirements: interactivity, reliability, = dynamics, and sparsity. These mismatches introduce significant challenges i= n scale-out network. Interestingly, when AI services operate within a scale= -up network, these challenges become more manageable. Consequently, we prop= ose first focusing on leveraging multicast to enhance scale-up AI service p= erformance, before extending the solution to broader distributed deployment= s. 5. Open Discussion =20 Welcome to join us! We hope to see you there! If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us: liuyisong@chinam= obile.com, [email protected] Best Regards Yisong =20 _______________________________________________ BIER mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] =20 =20 ------=_Part_38836_1534760263.1784276456288 Content-Type: text/html;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); li= ne-height: 1.5; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all;"><font fa= ce=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" style=3D"">Hi Tony,</font></div= ><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); l= ine-height: 1.5; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all;"><font f= ace=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91"><br></font></div><div style=3D= "background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.= 5; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all;"><p class=3D"ds-markdo= wn-paragraph" style=3D"margin: 16px 0px; color: rgb(15, 17, 21);"><span cla= ss=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">Thank you for y= our kind attention. </font></span></p><p class=3D"ds-markdown-paragrap= h" style=3D"margin: 16px 0px; color: rgb(15, 17, 21);"><span class=3D""><fo= nt face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">We'll do our best to recor= d the session and share the recording and materials on the mailing list aft= erward. Your feedback and suggestions would be very welcome.</font></span><= /p></div><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, = 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all;"= ><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91"><br></font></div><div = style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-he= ight: 1.5; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all;"><font face=3D= "=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">Best Regards</font></div><div style= =3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height:= 1.5; overflow-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all;"><font face=3D"=E5= =BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" style=3D"">Yisong</font><br><font face= =3D"=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93" style=3D"font-size: 16px;"> </font></div><br><= !-- block name=3D"headerinfo" --> <blockquote id=3D"oriMsgHtmlSeperator" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: = 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> ----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E6=96=87----<br> <b>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</b>Tony Przygienda = <[email protected]><br> <b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</b>Yisong Liu <l= [email protected]><br> <b>=E6=8A=84=E3=80=80=E9=80=81: </b>mcast4ai <[email protected]= rg>,rtgwg <[email protected]>,pim <pim@ietf.= org>,bier <[email protected]>,mboned <mboned@= ietf.org>,MikeMcBride <[email protected]>,YisongLiu&n= bsp; <[email protected]><br> <b>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A</b>2026-07-17 15:44:51<br> <b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A</b>Re: [Bier] Invitation to&n= bsp;the "AI Network Multicast" side meeting a= tIETF 126<br> <br> <div><div>interesting enough, record pls if you can. overlaps with mpls so = not a very good slot to attend in person </div><div><br></div><div>tha= nks </div><div><br></div><div>-- tony </div></div><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Ju= l 17, 2026 at 9:36AM Yisong Liu <<a href=3D"mailto:liuyisong@chinamobile= .com">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0p= x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;"><div style=3D"background-col= or: rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-height: 1.5;word-break: break-a= ll;"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">Dear All,</font></= div><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line= -height: 1.5;word-break: break-all;"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B= =85=E9=BB=91"><br></font></div><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,255,= 255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-height: 1.5;word-break: break-all;"><p class=3D= "MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">= We will organize a side meeting of AI Network Multicast on&n= bsp;<b>Tuesday, July 21, 9:15-10:45</b> (Europe/Vienna), in <b>ro= om Grand Klimt Hall 3</b>. If you are interested in AIDC or network layer m= ulticast, please come to the side meeting to discuss. If you are remote par= ticipant, please access the meeting via the link: <a href=3D"https://ietf.w= ebex.com/meet/sidemeetings2" target=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.com/meet/= sidemeetings2</a><u></u><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face= =3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"> <u></u><u></u></= font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85= =E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">This side meeting builds on previous side meeting dis= cussions and will dive deeper into AI-specific multicast use cases and requ= irements, including MoE token dispatch, while conducting preliminary techni= cal analyses of potential solutions such as BIER enhancements and new proto= col designs, with emphasis on reliability, scalability, and quantitative pe= rformance evaluation to guide future standardization.<u></u><u></u></font><= /p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB= =91" size=3D"3"> <u></u><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font= face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">Please check the = initial <font>agenda of the side meeting in the following: </font= ><u></u><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8= =BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>0. Welcome & Review = Chairs</b> <u></u><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face= =3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>1. Multicast P= roblem Statement for AIDC ( Junye Zhang, Remote, China Mobile)</b>&nb= sp; <u></u><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5= =BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>Abstract:</b> Multicast is= a promising technique for enhancing the efficiency of point-to-multipoint = data transmission during LLM training and inference in AI Data Centers (AID= Cs). However, AIDCs demand bidirectional interaction, lossless reliability,= microsecond scale dynamics, sparse groups, and simple control/data planes.= This talk will give a brief problem statement of multicast in AIDCs.<u></u= ><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF= =E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b><span>2.</span>Can LLMs Reason Structural= ly? Benchmarking via the lens of Data Structures, with possible benefit fro= m Multicast ( Yingxi Li, Remote, Stanford University)</b> <u></u><u></= u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B= =85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>Abstract: </b>As large language models (LLMs) a= re increasingly deployed on complex tasks that demand multi-step decision-m= aking, evaluating their algorithmic reasoning capabilities becomes critical= . This talk introduces DSR-Bench, a diagnostic benchmark grounded in data s= tructures, designed to assess structural reasoning=E2=80=94the ability to p= erceive and manipulate relational patterns such as order, hierarchy, and co= nnectivity, including the benchmark design, the evaluation methodology, and= key empirical findings. The talk concludes with a brief discussion of pote= ntial implications for AI data-center networks, raising the question of whe= ther efficient multicast communication could benefit long-context inference= , inference-time search, and distributed model execution.<u></u><u></u></fo= nt></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.0pt;text-indent: 0.0p= t;"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b><span= >3.</span>In-Network Computing on Switches (IFEC): Remodeling Multicast and= Accelerating Communication for AI Clusters (Changwang Lin, On-site, = Alibaba & H3C)</b><u></u><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font= face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>Abstract: </b>= Describe an innovative collaborative computing paradigm named IFEC (In Fabr= ic Extended-Computation). Its core objective is to address the worsening cr= oss-xPU communication bottlenecks in large-scale AI training and inference,= driven by rising model parallelism and the widespread adoption of architec= tures such as MoE.<u></u><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font fac= e=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>4. Mult= icast in Scale-Up (Haibo Wang, On-site, Huawei)</b><u></u><u></u></font></p= ><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91"= size=3D"3"><b>Abstract:</b> With the rapid development of AI services, opt= imizing AI cluster performance has become increasingly important. Notably, = some AI service scenarios may exhibit multicast-like communication patterns= (e.g., MOE dispatch).Traditional network multicast relies on single-direct= ion forwarding, which conflicts with key AI service requirements: interacti= vity, reliability, dynamics, and sparsity. These mismatches introduce signi= ficant challenges in scale-out network. Interestingly, when AI services ope= rate within a scale-up network, these challenges become more manageable. Co= nsequently, we propose first focusing on leveraging multicast to enhance sc= ale-up AI service performance, before extending the solution to broader dis= tributed deployments.</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE= =AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>5. Open Discussion</b><u= ></u><u></u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD= =AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"> <u></u><u></u></font></p><p style= =3D"margin-top: 0.0pt;margin-left: 0.0pt;text-indent: 0.0pt;padding: 0.0pt;= background: rgb(255,255,255);"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9= =BB=91" size=3D"3">Welcome to join us! We hope to see you there!<u></u><u><= /u></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B= =85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">If you have any questions, please feel free to con= tact us: <span><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blan= k">[email protected]</a></span>, <span><a href=3D"mailto:mmcbride7@= gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a></span></font></p></div= ><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-he= ight: 1.5;word-break: break-all;"><br></div><div style=3D"background-color:= rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-height: 1.5;word-break: break-all;= "><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">Best Regards</font></= div><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line= -height: 1.5;word-break: break-all;"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B= =85=E9=BB=91">Yisong<br></font><br><br><br><br><font face=3D"=E5=AE=8B=E4= =BD=93" style=3D"font-size: 16.0px;"> </font></div>___________________= ____________________________<br> BIER mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:bie= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> To unsubscribe send an = email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">bier-leav= [email protected]</a><br> </blockquote></div>=20 </blockquote> <!-- endblock name=3D"headerinfo" --> ------=_Part_38836_1534760263.1784276456288-- --===============4483345094308368355== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KcGltIG1haWxp bmcgbGlzdCAtLSBwaW1AaWV0Zi5vcmcKVG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUgc2VuZCBhbiBlbWFpbCB0byBw aW0tbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============4483345094308368355==--